Back Elbow Placement?

Younger, weaker players need more leverage (up), not less (down).

Use the same swing for any age.

Sultan always has the answer for me lol. Thanks. Just had been watching a youtube session with dnasportsonline that wasn't bad, but that guy was telling everyone to have the elbow down.

Worry about getting the scap pinched. As long as it pinches and doesn't unpinch until after the tricep extension (hands moving from behind the body to ahead), the elbow isn't relevant.

quote:

Originally posted by wwhs3b:
Still confused on the placement of the back elbow? I know most major leaguers have their elbow up almost to shoulder heighth at touch touch. What about younger players who are weaker though at like ages 10, 11, 12 etc? Reading on here and other internet sites and watching videos on youtube, there seems to be a varying opinion on having the elbow up or having down more. So which exactly is it and what effect does it have doing either version?

Just seems to be alot of people paying for someone to tell them elbow up and then alot paying people to tell them elbow down. I thought when it came to the actual swing the majority of players do it the same?

thanks.

WW..
There are more than one hitting mechanic philosophies that have worked at the highest level. One plane vs. two plane. Linear vs. rotational and several variations between. Weight back vs. balanced vs. front foot hitters. Hands high vs. hands low. Flat bat vs. 45 degrees vs. upright bat. Closed, open, square stance. Etc, etc,.

This has been a topic of debate that will probably never go away.

There are a few here who tend to post most frequently in the hitting forum that are big on Tip 'n rip. While this is a successful philosophy for some, it is not the best, IMO, for other types of hitters. It is a two plane swing that requires more precise timing than some other techniques. I don't believe it is best for a young beginner.

As it relates to the elbow - Sultan may be correct in stating that young players need more leverage but beginners also need simplicity. My advice to a beginner would be to take a proper grip, rest the bat against the rear shoulder and then lift it a few inches. The elbow will likely be somewhat "up" but in an natural, comfortable position that will allow the hitter to load naturally and then deliver the barrel to the ball.

This is part of a simpler one plane swing that will allow a beginner to have a high success rate for making consistent solid contact.

The problem with telling a beginner to raise his elbow is that if he isn't getting good (and frequent) instruction for the rest of the swing, way too many bad things are likely to follow.

And if you are trying to teach a 10 y.o. beginner and your dialog consists of "pinched scap" and "tricep extension", you're probably not going to get very far.

JMO

Very true cabbagedad, what do you think of the swing I posted in the thread below this one? Its a 12 year old in his first year of baseball. Sometimes hits the ball solid and with lots of power, but very rarely. Rest of the time its off the end of the ball or little pop-ups. What do you see out of that video?

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:

quote:

Originally posted by wwhs3b:
Still confused on the placement of the back elbow? I know most major leaguers have their elbow up almost to shoulder heighth at touch touch. What about younger players who are weaker though at like ages 10, 11, 12 etc? Reading on here and other internet sites and watching videos on youtube, there seems to be a varying opinion on having the elbow up or having down more. So which exactly is it and what effect does it have doing either version?

Just seems to be alot of people paying for someone to tell them elbow up and then alot paying people to tell them elbow down. I thought when it came to the actual swing the majority of players do it the same?

thanks.

WW..
There are more than one hitting mechanic philosophies that have worked at the highest level. One plane vs. two plane. Linear vs. rotational and several variations between. Weight back vs. balanced vs. front foot hitters. Hands high vs. hands low. Flat bat vs. 45 degrees vs. upright bat. Closed, open, square stance. Etc, etc,.

This has been a topic of debate that will probably never go away.

There are a few here who tend to post most frequently in the hitting forum that are big on Tip 'n rip. While this is a successful philosophy for some, it is not the best, IMO, for other types of hitters. It is a two plane swing that requires more precise timing than some other techniques. I don't believe it is best for a young beginner.

As it relates to the elbow - Sultan may be correct in stating that young players need more leverage but beginners also need simplicity. My advice to a beginner would be to take a proper grip, rest the bat against the rear shoulder and then lift it a few inches. The elbow will likely be somewhat "up" but in an natural, comfortable position that will allow the hitter to load naturally and then deliver the barrel to the ball.

This is part of a simpler one plane swing that will allow a beginner to have a high success rate for making consistent solid contact.

The problem with telling a beginner to raise his elbow is that if he isn't getting good (and frequent) instruction for the rest of the swing, way too many bad things are likely to follow.

And if you are trying to teach a 10 y.o. beginner and your dialog consists of "pinched scap" and "tricep extension", you're probably not going to get very far.

JMO

Love the oblique referencing of my opinions. For the record, when I work with people (which isn't rare, but isn't common), I use simple terms. I wouldn't say "pinch the scap until triceps extension". I'd say "get the elbow behind you, and keep it there as long as you can." Saying "pinch the scap until triceps extension" is something that I would only say to someone advanced or to people who post on these forums.

For the record, I love Tip n' Rip. However, I wouldn't teach it to a beginner. You need to figure out the basic moves before you get to Tip n' Rip. If a hitter has at least a basic understanding of what needs to happen, then it's a worthwhile thing. I wouldn't teach it to a beginner until the hitter learns to use the hands and lower body properly.

I disagree with the notion that a one plane swing is a better choice. To me, a one plane swing involves sticking the lead elbow in the plane of the pitch and pulling the knob with shoulder rotation. I believe that all hitters should use a two plane swing, in terms of the bat starting out of plane (vertical or another comfortable position) and then be moved into the plane through hand action as the swing starts. You don't need to Tip n' Rip to do this. IMO, MLB hitters don't try to stick their lead elbows in the plane and then pull the knob. There simply isn't enough time to do that.

What I do believe happens is the turning of the bat between the hands, causing early bat speed and late adjustability. This is best described by Jack Mankin. With regard to the lower body, the best widely available information is Epstein, paired with the Williams description of how to "C o c k" the hips. The "hip c o c k" combined with Epstein's "Wind the rubber band" is how the best hitters coil and adjust.

Hardy says the MLB swing best resembles a 1-plane swing. Well, I know little about golf. But, with the exception of how the bat starts out of plane and moves into plane, I'd say he's correct. The main source of power is the body, and the top hand should be the dominant hand in the swing.