CADad, It is nice that you are loyal to your league and stick up for them, but real good players get drafted.
I don’t believe anyone could argue that a kid wouldn’t be a better player for his grade if he were a year older when he is in high school.
That’s why coaches red shirt college freshman.
Our youngest started kindergarten this year. He could have went last year but we decided to red shirt him.
That’s why coaches red shirt college freshman.
Our youngest started kindergarten this year. He could have went last year but we decided to red shirt him.
bbscout,
I think we're arguing the definition of good again. I'm saying that our league is better because they win. The teams have more depth. Chatsworth was undefeated and the national champions. They're just down the road and were a better team than any team in our league, bar none. However, if they had played in our league this year they probably wouldn't have been undefeated and as a result wouldn't have been national champions. Our league just has too much depth. It would be interesting to see how many players from our league get drafted either out of HS or out of college compared to other leagues. I expect, but have no way of proving that we get a lot more kids going D1 and to college in general than most leagues and that we get more kids drafted than most leagues but not as many as some others. It is a relatively affluent area and kids are expected to go to college. Of course if you expand the competition to the non-league teams we typically play and often beat then you can begin to add names like Delmon Young to the who's been drafted list. Great players come out of the whole country and if any one league has significantly more kids drafted than any other it is probably a bit of a fluke. But it you want to pick one area of the country that you are likely to see the most kids drafted out of it wouldn't surprise me if Ventura County and the San Fernando Valley sent as many kids to the pro ranks as any other area except possibly Orange County.
I think we're arguing the definition of good again. I'm saying that our league is better because they win. The teams have more depth. Chatsworth was undefeated and the national champions. They're just down the road and were a better team than any team in our league, bar none. However, if they had played in our league this year they probably wouldn't have been undefeated and as a result wouldn't have been national champions. Our league just has too much depth. It would be interesting to see how many players from our league get drafted either out of HS or out of college compared to other leagues. I expect, but have no way of proving that we get a lot more kids going D1 and to college in general than most leagues and that we get more kids drafted than most leagues but not as many as some others. It is a relatively affluent area and kids are expected to go to college. Of course if you expand the competition to the non-league teams we typically play and often beat then you can begin to add names like Delmon Young to the who's been drafted list. Great players come out of the whole country and if any one league has significantly more kids drafted than any other it is probably a bit of a fluke. But it you want to pick one area of the country that you are likely to see the most kids drafted out of it wouldn't surprise me if Ventura County and the San Fernando Valley sent as many kids to the pro ranks as any other area except possibly Orange County.
We have three boys, June, April and October birth dates. When the October was ready for kindergarten the teacher told us that while she didn't really agree with retaining students, she would think twice about sending a boy to school when he was 4 years old. So...we decided to redshirt him too... 
I think I'd have to agree with a previous post that if a child is (relatively) imature for his grade that it's likely a bad decision by parents starting him in school sooner rather than later.
mine has a August birthday, which offered the situation of him being an older player at youth baseball age levels - that was easily solved by moving him up an age group or two until he was sufficiently challlenged but still able to compete and contribute, so I guess in effect I took his good birthday away & handed him a "bad" one - oh well
by Cadad regarding a "bad birthday"
"If a kid has average talent then they could be at a fairly significant disadvantage."
true, tho if the kid has "average talent" that is his disadvantage
also, I've seen some pretty good Cal. players, and they look remarkably just like the pretty good midwest, southeast, northeast etc players - ya wouldn't know the diff without a roster - till ya notice the surfboard on their woody
don't get too caught up in using Little League teams as a standard, that would be a mistake
mine has a August birthday, which offered the situation of him being an older player at youth baseball age levels - that was easily solved by moving him up an age group or two until he was sufficiently challlenged but still able to compete and contribute, so I guess in effect I took his good birthday away & handed him a "bad" one - oh well
by Cadad regarding a "bad birthday"
"If a kid has average talent then they could be at a fairly significant disadvantage."
true, tho if the kid has "average talent" that is his disadvantage
also, I've seen some pretty good Cal. players, and they look remarkably just like the pretty good midwest, southeast, northeast etc players - ya wouldn't know the diff without a roster - till ya notice the surfboard on their woody
don't get too caught up in using Little League teams as a standard, that would be a mistake
bbscout,
I need to set the record straight. In the interest of accuracy I went back and checked how Robert had done against our school and he pitched quite well. No way was he "schooled", at least not against our team.
I need to set the record straight. In the interest of accuracy I went back and checked how Robert had done against our school and he pitched quite well. No way was he "schooled", at least not against our team.
Bee,
Let's see your son had the choice of playing with kids he was up to a year older than or playing with kids who were his age and older. Definitely an advantage for youth baseball. Like most kids with that advantage he probably did both. My son did.
If your son was a 14yo freshman then I believe you have a right to say what you have, since he had a small disadvantage relative to HS with an August birthday. Otherwise your son got the best of both worlds from a baseball standpoint and may have been as much as a year and a half older than kids in the same grade. So was your son a 14yo freshman or did you give him an advantage over the other kids by holding him back?
To paraphrase bbscout, the best players were good in LL, Pony, Travel and HS ball and they make it to college ball. This isn't always the case but the general trend is correct. Over the last 9 years more LLWS and Pony WS teams have come out of the area feeding our HS league than most any other area in the nation. It follows that the talent level in our HS league would be better than most other leagues.
Let's see your son had the choice of playing with kids he was up to a year older than or playing with kids who were his age and older. Definitely an advantage for youth baseball. Like most kids with that advantage he probably did both. My son did.
If your son was a 14yo freshman then I believe you have a right to say what you have, since he had a small disadvantage relative to HS with an August birthday. Otherwise your son got the best of both worlds from a baseball standpoint and may have been as much as a year and a half older than kids in the same grade. So was your son a 14yo freshman or did you give him an advantage over the other kids by holding him back?
To paraphrase bbscout, the best players were good in LL, Pony, Travel and HS ball and they make it to college ball. This isn't always the case but the general trend is correct. Over the last 9 years more LLWS and Pony WS teams have come out of the area feeding our HS league than most any other area in the nation. It follows that the talent level in our HS league would be better than most other leagues.
I really believe that the only people who are disadvantaged are those who believe they are at a disadvantage. Do you think that Jim Abbott ever considered that he had any kid of disadvantage? I doubt it......and he may even have had an August birthday!!
Cadad, like I said, given the choice of him being "less mature" when starting kindergarten or "more mature" - he hung out with his mom for another year - - - still, when you get to college, there ya are, playing against guys 3 or 4 yrs older
like I said using LL chamionships as a standard is shakey - & what's a pony?
btw, how did Orange Co fare in the CMack WS? -
like I said using LL chamionships as a standard is shakey - & what's a pony?
btw, how did Orange Co fare in the CMack WS? -
Bee,
Sorry, PONY.
Sure you weren't trying to gain a bit of an age advantage for sports?
Your son has the ideal birthday for youth ball and you held him back despite an August birthday which is less of a disadvantage in HS than any other relative to his age group in youth ball. Please don't tell me he's got an August 1st birthday!
Sorry, PONY.
Sure you weren't trying to gain a bit of an age advantage for sports?
Your son has the ideal birthday for youth ball and you held him back despite an August birthday which is less of a disadvantage in HS than any other relative to his age group in youth ball. Please don't tell me he's got an August 1st birthday!
CADad, Bee's son is one of the good ones, and it would not matter when he was born. He starts at Georgia Tech and his birthday did not have anything to do with it, his talent got him there (along with good grades).
Cadad, I'm just saying that it doesn't really matter a "hill 'o beans" who'all "came out of your area" etc, it's simply - -
does the kid have tools?
no offense, but PONY still doesn't ring a bell, it must be regional
say again about Orange Co Renegades?
very kind bbscout -
mom's athletic ability rubbed off in that extra year at home, along with some confidence, drive, and stuborn-ness
& thank GOD he got her "arm"
does the kid have tools?
no offense, but PONY still doesn't ring a bell, it must be regional
say again about Orange Co Renegades?
very kind bbscout -
mom's athletic ability rubbed off in that extra year at home, along with some confidence, drive, and stuborn-ness
& thank GOD he got her "arm"
bbscout,
Won't argue that. If they're really good, then they're really good and the birthday, or more accurately if you held them back, doesn't matter.
Won't argue that. If they're really good, then they're really good and the birthday, or more accurately if you held them back, doesn't matter.
Bee,
PONY is national or more accurately international. It is usually a better brand of baseball than LL.
I'll admit to a bit of ignorance. (What's new!) I don't understand your reference to the Orange County Renegades. My assumption is that you're talking about a team taken from a large area rather than from the area that let us say a HS league would come from. Obviously the East Cobb teams aren't from our area and they're pretty darn good at many levels but they aren't usually just from a local area.
PONY is national or more accurately international. It is usually a better brand of baseball than LL.
I'll admit to a bit of ignorance. (What's new!) I don't understand your reference to the Orange County Renegades. My assumption is that you're talking about a team taken from a large area rather than from the area that let us say a HS league would come from. Obviously the East Cobb teams aren't from our area and they're pretty darn good at many levels but they aren't usually just from a local area.
CADad, I am getting the feeling that if a kid is 18 as a senior that you feel cheated. My kid was born on Nov.18th and he started school in Nevada, and turned 6 in Nov. ......never gave it a second thought.
bbscout,
Nope. Don't feel cheated a bit. It was my decision to start my son in school when we did. Sports never entered into it, never gave it a second thought at the time. Maturity in the classroom was the only potential issue. He'd do better in HS baseball if we had started him a year later, that's all. How much better or worse we'll never know. If he's good enough to have a shot at playing baseball in college he can always go the JC route if there's any maturity issues still to worry about. In the meantime, the situation is what it is and he'll just have to work a bit harder to try to catch up to and pass the kids in his grade. That'll be up to him.
Nope. Don't feel cheated a bit. It was my decision to start my son in school when we did. Sports never entered into it, never gave it a second thought at the time. Maturity in the classroom was the only potential issue. He'd do better in HS baseball if we had started him a year later, that's all. How much better or worse we'll never know. If he's good enough to have a shot at playing baseball in college he can always go the JC route if there's any maturity issues still to worry about. In the meantime, the situation is what it is and he'll just have to work a bit harder to try to catch up to and pass the kids in his grade. That'll be up to him.
bbscout - we've something in common, ours is Nov. 19th. (one of those end of baseball season babies I guess ) Though he just made the Dec cutoff, for him there were more negatives that positives in starting school while still 4yrs old. So CADAD, he is one of those "advantaged" players you talk about who will be turning 18 in the middle of his senior year. Sports never entered the equation at the time, but looking back it was the right decision for the right reasons.
) Though he just made the Dec cutoff, for him there were more negatives that positives in starting school while still 4yrs old. So CADAD, he is one of those "advantaged" players you talk about who will be turning 18 in the middle of his senior year. Sports never entered the equation at the time, but looking back it was the right decision for the right reasons.
Ours is a June birthday and started Kindergarden at age 5. I never even gave it any thought because I started Kindergarden at age 5.
I personally feel that because he played LL a year younger than most other players, he played up. Played as a 12 yr old when he was 11 yrs old. He hates losing so he worked to play better than the older kids.
So he was ready for high school ball, and started Varsity pitching as a 14 yr old freshman.
He did pretty good, too. Also hit in four slot on Varsity as a 15 yr old soph. Sure, it ticked off some of those 19 yr old Seniors who were batting a buck and a quarter lower but he honestly earned the spot.
I think it's an individual choice and what's best for kid "A" is not what's best for kid "B".
In our own case, it wasn't always easy but definitely best choice for our son.
He would have been bored to tears in school if we had held him back.
The only thing that bugged him was not being able to drive until his Junior year.
I personally feel that because he played LL a year younger than most other players, he played up. Played as a 12 yr old when he was 11 yrs old. He hates losing so he worked to play better than the older kids.
So he was ready for high school ball, and started Varsity pitching as a 14 yr old freshman.
He did pretty good, too. Also hit in four slot on Varsity as a 15 yr old soph. Sure, it ticked off some of those 19 yr old Seniors who were batting a buck and a quarter lower but he honestly earned the spot.
I think it's an individual choice and what's best for kid "A" is not what's best for kid "B".
In our own case, it wasn't always easy but definitely best choice for our son.
He would have been bored to tears in school if we had held him back.
The only thing that bugged him was not being able to drive until his Junior year.
I'll be completely honest, I "red-shirted" my August born 11 year old after the 1st grade because I didn't want him to be one of the youngest and smallest in his class.
I was ...and I hated it. I was an October b-day and had to deal with a slow maturing body to boot! I was offered a partial football scholarship to a small PA college that I turned down. Ultimately I played JUCO ice hockey then transferred to a DI college that didn't even have hockey ...where a proceeded to grow 3 inches and gain 60lbs!
I wasn't going to let my late-bloomimg genetics play a factor in my sons chances. Plus having him home an extra year was VERY appealing!
What I failed to consider was my wife's genetics. She has one brother, Keith Vitali, who was a 2 time US Champion and 1 time world champion kick boxer and her other brother was a 3 time state wrestling champ that both matured very young.
Consequently, my 11 year old is one of the biggest in his grade and a couple of weeks ago I had to teach him how to shave his side-burns!!! God bless the Italians!!
...best laid plans!!
I was ...and I hated it. I was an October b-day and had to deal with a slow maturing body to boot! I was offered a partial football scholarship to a small PA college that I turned down. Ultimately I played JUCO ice hockey then transferred to a DI college that didn't even have hockey ...where a proceeded to grow 3 inches and gain 60lbs!
I wasn't going to let my late-bloomimg genetics play a factor in my sons chances. Plus having him home an extra year was VERY appealing!
What I failed to consider was my wife's genetics. She has one brother, Keith Vitali, who was a 2 time US Champion and 1 time world champion kick boxer and her other brother was a 3 time state wrestling champ that both matured very young.
Consequently, my 11 year old is one of the biggest in his grade and a couple of weeks ago I had to teach him how to shave his side-burns!!! God bless the Italians!!
...best laid plans!!
by callaway - "I "red-shirted" my August born - - - after the 1st grade"
brutal - ya make a 6 yr old "sit" a whole year without "playing"
brutal - ya make a 6 yr old "sit" a whole year without "playing"
I look at it this way--God deemed when my parents were to have me, I am a January baby and a premature one at that, , and I began grammar school , first grade, when I was 5 1/2 years of age--was just 13 going into HS--17 going into college and had my degree at 21 even with a semester lost due to illness,
It all worked out fine--you make the best of what you have and don't mess with the cards you are dealt-- there is a purpose in all this--I truly believe this
My boys are all January or February kids as well
It all worked out fine--you make the best of what you have and don't mess with the cards you are dealt-- there is a purpose in all this--I truly believe this
My boys are all January or February kids as well
My son's birthday is Aug 8 ... and he went into Kindergarten having just turned 5. While he was one of the biggest kids in his class (genetics), he was always one of the youngest. Teachers always looked at his size and expected more of him because they thought he was older ... when he was actually the youngest in the class.
As he grew older and got involved in sports, the majority of his close friends were from his various sports teams, not his classmates, and his teammates were largely one grade below him. The result was he had very little connection to his school classmates. He'd always hangout and play with the kids from his teams. Also, being a typical boy, his attention to detail and organization skills weren't great ... very smart kid, but would do things like forget to turn homework in, etc. We ultimately decided to have him repeat a year in gradeschool.
My wife was very nervous about this, but my son was very relaxed. His comment: "hey, I get to be with my friends and I get another year to get better at my schoolwork". It turned out to be a very good decision all around. He was much happier. His grades improved.
He's now a junior in high school.
Sports-wise he had always been a big kid and one of the more advanced atheletes on his teams ... this just gave him an extra year to fill into that large body and mature, but was really a secondary benefit. Also, just dumb luck ... had he stayed in his original class-level he would have been a junior last year pitching behind senior Phil Hughes (RHP - 1st round Yankees), which would have left only this year for him to show as one of the starting pitchers. What are the odds of landing in a high school behind a guy that gets drafted 1st round ... but by luck it just worked out by holding him back years ago, that he relieved behind Phil as a sophomore last year and now has two years to work as one of the main starting pitchers and has a chance to hit in the core of the lineup as Phil's departure left a hole in the power slot ... at 6'4" and 205, the coach will be looking to him drive the ball and knock in some runs.
One thing about an Aug. birthday ... great baseball birthday, except for the Junior Olympics and junior national team, which uses the international cutoff date. As a 15-yr-old, he hadn't quite grown into his body ... as a bigger, more physically mature 16-yr-old, he was ineligible.
As he grew older and got involved in sports, the majority of his close friends were from his various sports teams, not his classmates, and his teammates were largely one grade below him. The result was he had very little connection to his school classmates. He'd always hangout and play with the kids from his teams. Also, being a typical boy, his attention to detail and organization skills weren't great ... very smart kid, but would do things like forget to turn homework in, etc. We ultimately decided to have him repeat a year in gradeschool.
My wife was very nervous about this, but my son was very relaxed. His comment: "hey, I get to be with my friends and I get another year to get better at my schoolwork". It turned out to be a very good decision all around. He was much happier. His grades improved.
He's now a junior in high school.
Sports-wise he had always been a big kid and one of the more advanced atheletes on his teams ... this just gave him an extra year to fill into that large body and mature, but was really a secondary benefit. Also, just dumb luck ... had he stayed in his original class-level he would have been a junior last year pitching behind senior Phil Hughes (RHP - 1st round Yankees), which would have left only this year for him to show as one of the starting pitchers. What are the odds of landing in a high school behind a guy that gets drafted 1st round ... but by luck it just worked out by holding him back years ago, that he relieved behind Phil as a sophomore last year and now has two years to work as one of the main starting pitchers and has a chance to hit in the core of the lineup as Phil's departure left a hole in the power slot ... at 6'4" and 205, the coach will be looking to him drive the ball and knock in some runs.
One thing about an Aug. birthday ... great baseball birthday, except for the Junior Olympics and junior national team, which uses the international cutoff date. As a 15-yr-old, he hadn't quite grown into his body ... as a bigger, more physically mature 16-yr-old, he was ineligible.
My son has an August 12th B-Day and I often wish I had held him back for the same reasons you did. I guess that's why they say hindsight is 20-20. My experience is that the teachers don't really even consider holding them back at most schools unless they are failing academically regardless of their maturity level. If I could do it over again I would have waited another year. Your son's story is almost identical to my son's.
All I can say is that I'm very glad we did hold him back ... though we waited until our "last chance" at the 6th-7th grade threshold. The funny thing was that my wife and I were both very tense/nervous/torn about the decision, but for him it was no big deal. We pulled our hair out ... he just said "great, I get to see my friends everyday now". Subsequent to this, we had Sept-birthday twins, and we didn't put them into Kinder until they were 5-turning-6.
While it may have been more common for parents to have kids that are 4-turning-5 going into Kinder back in the day when we were kids, today it seems more the exception. So in today's HS sports environment, young kids that are 'up' a grade have an even tougher time competing for that spot in the starting lineup because there's a larger percentage of older kids in their class ... that have a year of additional physical and emotional maturity.
I still remember our introductory parent meeting with the AD going into HS our first year ... and he flat tells the parents who had young 13-14 yr-old incoming Freshman: "What were you thinking?". We had 28 kids in freshman baseball, of which only 14-15 actually played freshman ball. Only one freshman played JV, and that was only because a junior pitcher dropped out of the program at the last moment and they didn't have enough arms. The remaining freshman played only in a weekend league. Any 14-yr-olds had to be phenomenal players just to play frosh-ball, or they had to play on a Pony team.
While it may have been more common for parents to have kids that are 4-turning-5 going into Kinder back in the day when we were kids, today it seems more the exception. So in today's HS sports environment, young kids that are 'up' a grade have an even tougher time competing for that spot in the starting lineup because there's a larger percentage of older kids in their class ... that have a year of additional physical and emotional maturity.
I still remember our introductory parent meeting with the AD going into HS our first year ... and he flat tells the parents who had young 13-14 yr-old incoming Freshman: "What were you thinking?". We had 28 kids in freshman baseball, of which only 14-15 actually played freshman ball. Only one freshman played JV, and that was only because a junior pitcher dropped out of the program at the last moment and they didn't have enough arms. The remaining freshman played only in a weekend league. Any 14-yr-olds had to be phenomenal players just to play frosh-ball, or they had to play on a Pony team.