What a crying shame,the Homeplate ump signaled OUT,That was alful,NO EXcuse's for a MLB Ump to be Tricked into that BS
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Watch the replay and turn down your volume. The ball bounced into the glove.
Good call.
Good call.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:
Watch the replay and turn down your volume. The ball bounced into the glove.
Good call.
Dear Linear,I suggest you get Lasix Surgery,You had to be pulling for the White Sox-----Dude that wasn't even close,the ump. was tricked By the batter...Did u see the Homeplate Ump Pump his fist? That means OUT-Rungup-inning over.
Thats the worst call in Baseball since the CWS balk Call-------JOKE
Of course it was close --- that's why there's controversy. No web under the ball, dirt flying; maybe the glove kicked it up, maybe the ball....reason enough to question what happened. The ump called him out because he was (third strike and all that), but the ball being judged to have hit the dirt allowed the play to continue. Paul made a major error in judgement to not tag the runner as he certainly had time; and AJ was smart to run to first to push the issue.
At best ,after seeing numerous replays,it looked like a trap. We'll take it. How about Crede's 0-2 smack off the wall! B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L!!!!!
GO WHITE SOX!!!
GO WHITE SOX!!!
Orlando,
The Home Plate Umpire pumped his fist,meaning OUT!
The Homeplate Umpire is the Man in charge, Right?
As soon as he signaled OUT as he did Game Over
No - Brainer Su x!
The Home Plate Umpire pumped his fist,meaning OUT!
The Homeplate Umpire is the Man in charge, Right?
As soon as he signaled OUT as he did Game Over
No - Brainer Su x!
Game over? Actually, no, Rock. It was tied in the bottom of the ninth. Had it been a clean strike three, they would have gone to the 10th.
Rock'Me:
Linear may be a dude and pulling for the White Sox So what?
To say that the play was not close is ignoring the facts.
A post game interview with the umpire involved revealed that he saw the ball change trajectory indicating that the ball indeed hit the ground before it hit the glove.
With a close call like that perhaps their catcher,Paul, should have tagged him out for good measure. Heads up baseball by AJ!!!
GO WHITE SOX!!!
Linear may be a dude and pulling for the White Sox So what?
To say that the play was not close is ignoring the facts.
A post game interview with the umpire involved revealed that he saw the ball change trajectory indicating that the ball indeed hit the ground before it hit the glove.
With a close call like that perhaps their catcher,Paul, should have tagged him out for good measure. Heads up baseball by AJ!!!
GO WHITE SOX!!!
quote:Originally posted by Rock'Me:quote:Originally posted by Linear:
Watch the replay and turn down your volume. The ball bounced into the glove.
Good call.
Dear Linear,I suggest you get Lasix Surgery,You had to be pulling for the White Sox-----Dude that wasn't even close,the ump. was tricked By the batter...Did u see the Homeplate Ump Pump his fist? That means OUT-Rungup-inning over.
Thats the worst call in Baseball since the CWS balk Call-------JOKE
You can clearly see the ball bounce. The question is.....is the glove under the ball when it bounces. The answer is......not very likely from the position of the glove at the time of the catch.
Good call by the umpire.
Horrible call by Joe Buck.
Another case of people being led by influential people regardless of facts and evidence.
I could care less who wins. Don't like either team.
Orlando:
Thanks for your posts. I wonder how much Rock'Me had riding on this game?!
Thanks for your posts. I wonder how much Rock'Me had riding on this game?!
Linear:
You may not be a White Sox fan but I'm still going to thank you for your arguments here supporting the decision of the umpire. Thanks!
Go White Sox!!!
You may not be a White Sox fan but I'm still going to thank you for your arguments here supporting the decision of the umpire. Thanks!
Go White Sox!!!
I could care lesser who wins
I just dont like the fact that the game was decided by a poor call.
And please correct me if i'm wrong,But when the Homeplate umpire pumps his fist and strongly gives the OUT sign,It's a Out.Period,Its not that hard.What next a 10 second rule,when a umpire gives a 100 percent out sign,All fielders must wait 10 seconds before returning to their dugout.....Come on People...I would think most of you know baseball....Go Rangers lol
I just dont like the fact that the game was decided by a poor call.
And please correct me if i'm wrong,But when the Homeplate umpire pumps his fist and strongly gives the OUT sign,It's a Out.Period,Its not that hard.What next a 10 second rule,when a umpire gives a 100 percent out sign,All fielders must wait 10 seconds before returning to their dugout.....Come on People...I would think most of you know baseball....Go Rangers lol
The issue about the umpire signalling out and then changing it is puzzling.
BUT, it had no bearing on the play. The catcher rolled the ball before he should have. Period.
As far as the catch is concerned, the video clearly shows the ball going UP into the glove. Which means it hit the ground.
Was leather under it? I don't think so.
BUT, it had no bearing on the play. The catcher rolled the ball before he should have. Period.
As far as the catch is concerned, the video clearly shows the ball going UP into the glove. Which means it hit the ground.
Was leather under it? I don't think so.
We do know baseball, as do any number of umpires who consult and change a call (as has happened more often this year than in previous years and I believe it to be a good thing).
Three strikes is, indeed, an out and can be signalled that way. But if the ball hits the ground or is judged to and (in this case) first base is open with two out, the runner has the right to try for first. And the catcher has the right to tag the runner or throw down, both of which he had ample opportunity to do. Neither of which he did. Had he, as he should have been taught since the first time he strapped on the shin guards, they would have gone on to the tenth.
Either Paul had a brain cramp or he was trying to sell a potential trap by walking away from it. AJ got the sale.
Three strikes is, indeed, an out and can be signalled that way. But if the ball hits the ground or is judged to and (in this case) first base is open with two out, the runner has the right to try for first. And the catcher has the right to tag the runner or throw down, both of which he had ample opportunity to do. Neither of which he did. Had he, as he should have been taught since the first time he strapped on the shin guards, they would have gone on to the tenth.
Either Paul had a brain cramp or he was trying to sell a potential trap by walking away from it. AJ got the sale.
I am a Sox fan so will get that out of the way. I want nothing more than to have a non-confrontational victory for the CWS. Victory is best without a bad taste in your mouth.
If you listen to the post game interviews, AJ, who is a catcher, thought that the ball was in the dirt. He swung at a splitter in the dirt for a third strike. He was surprised that Paul didn’t put the tag on him. AJ did not hear the umpire call him out. Recalling his previous experiences he ran to first base. If the ump called him out so be it… Great heads up by AJ. The best Sox base running in the last two games. Shame on Paul for not putting the tag on AJ. I bet he won’t make that mistake again.
The ump crew stated that after review they thought they made the correct call, at best “inconclusive”. The plate ump confirmed that he never called AJ out. He only signaled the strike call and that he has been consistent with how he signals a strike. The rest of the ump crew backed him up (upon appeal).
Scioscia even stated that the reason that the Angels didn’t win was because they didn’t play as well as the Sox and that Buehrle shut them down.
Good call by the ump.
Linear, I agree with you. Buck is getting on my nerves.
Great game played by two great teams ( as was the first).
GO SOX
If you listen to the post game interviews, AJ, who is a catcher, thought that the ball was in the dirt. He swung at a splitter in the dirt for a third strike. He was surprised that Paul didn’t put the tag on him. AJ did not hear the umpire call him out. Recalling his previous experiences he ran to first base. If the ump called him out so be it… Great heads up by AJ. The best Sox base running in the last two games. Shame on Paul for not putting the tag on AJ. I bet he won’t make that mistake again.
The ump crew stated that after review they thought they made the correct call, at best “inconclusive”. The plate ump confirmed that he never called AJ out. He only signaled the strike call and that he has been consistent with how he signals a strike. The rest of the ump crew backed him up (upon appeal).
Scioscia even stated that the reason that the Angels didn’t win was because they didn’t play as well as the Sox and that Buehrle shut them down.
Good call by the ump.
Linear, I agree with you. Buck is getting on my nerves.
Great game played by two great teams ( as was the first).
GO SOX
Smokey:
Great post! Way to sum it up!
By the way... please have your avatar keep a lookout on my avatar. If he sees smoke have him sling some soil at the base of the flames!
GO WHITE SOX!!!
Great post! Way to sum it up!
By the way... please have your avatar keep a lookout on my avatar. If he sees smoke have him sling some soil at the base of the flames!
GO WHITE SOX!!!
Will do gotwood4sale. Thank Fungo as well for posting the avatar stuff in a recent post. Given your name, I expect you avatar will be prairie soon.
Smokey:
Not a prairie but a nice,healthy, planted stand of timber. TREES...Our Renewable Resource.
Not a prairie but a nice,healthy, planted stand of timber. TREES...Our Renewable Resource.
quote:Originally posted by Smokey:
...Linear, I agree with you. Buck is getting on my nerves...
He was way over the top. As he was last year when Randy Moss mooned the crowd.
Not defending Randy Moss. Joe's getting a little full of himself.
Its a dam shame when a big game is decided be an incompetent umpiring crew. In the history of baseball I doubt that a runner has ever reached first base on a dropped third strike when the catcher kept the ball in front of him. Hope the umps dress in Chicago White Sox uniforms for the next game so Cal. knows who their playing. Black Sox # 2.
I'm pulling for the Halo's but the catcher has to make that tag and hats off to some head's up base running. Two very good lessons for the youngsters.
Agree, Callaway.
What about the FUNDAMENTAL mistake by the catcher? Catching the ball with the glove face down (wrong) instead of face up (right way).
I learned that in little league.
What about the FUNDAMENTAL mistake by the catcher? Catching the ball with the glove face down (wrong) instead of face up (right way).
I learned that in little league.
Rock'Me:
Ain't it B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L !!!
GO WHITE SOX!!!
Ain't it B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L !!!
GO WHITE SOX!!!
quote:Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
Agree, Callaway.
What about the FUNDAMENTAL mistake by the catcher? Catching the ball with the glove face down (wrong) instead of face up (right way).
I learned that in little league.
Sorry but that is no catching fundamental.
As you go up the food chain, the speed of the pitches increase to a point that it's not often possible to turn the glove over AND catch the ball.
Yes, they teach you to turn it over and block the 5 hole when BLOCKING. But, when blocking you aren't trying to catch the ball.
This pitch was slightly to his backhand. Almost impossible to catch the ball with the glove turned over. He would have had to shift to block in order to get the glove over and still reach the ball.
Callaway/BeenthereIL:
Everyone's arguing over the flight of the pitch and the umps call. Thanks for focusing on the problems with Paul's fundamentals. If he gets it right(either catching with the glove up and/or putting the tag on AJ) then the game goes to the 10th and who knows?
GO WHITE SOX!!!
Everyone's arguing over the flight of the pitch and the umps call. Thanks for focusing on the problems with Paul's fundamentals. If he gets it right(either catching with the glove up and/or putting the tag on AJ) then the game goes to the 10th and who knows?
GO WHITE SOX!!!
Scioscia not only handled the post-game interviews well and with class, but he was right. The Game doesn't come down to one call, as I expect many of us have taught our sons since LL. There are opportunities to hit and field from the first pitch and that is how a game is built.
Anyone who watched could point to swings, baserunning, baserunner holding, etc. issues all of which had an impact on the dynamic of the game. And on this situation, Paul's lack-of-tag was the most important element. (Assuming a call or play in postseason? Not bright.)
And remember that if it had been a clean K, the game is in the 10th; either team could have won (or it could have gone on for another nine innings, and as a Cards fan that would be OK with me
)
As egregious as the Denkinger Call was in '85, that in itself did not lose the series for the Cards. But their reaction to it did.
Anyone who watched could point to swings, baserunning, baserunner holding, etc. issues all of which had an impact on the dynamic of the game. And on this situation, Paul's lack-of-tag was the most important element. (Assuming a call or play in postseason? Not bright.)
And remember that if it had been a clean K, the game is in the 10th; either team could have won (or it could have gone on for another nine innings, and as a Cards fan that would be OK with me
)As egregious as the Denkinger Call was in '85, that in itself did not lose the series for the Cards. But their reaction to it did.
My feeling is the Angels got "jobbed". I understand the argument about what the players should do and that did not cost them the game...but me thinks the ump needs to change his "mechanic". If that was his strike call, then what the heck is his out call...doing the same motion twice? (It didn't happen in the instance ESPN showed involving Molina tagging someone out after a similar situation...just the same exact motions as last night.)
The replay shows the 1st and 2nd basemen both moving towards off the field of play, then reacting to the ump, both pumping their fists, as if to say "you rung him up". Even if the catcher had held onto the ball, the 1st baseman seeing the fist pump and leaving gives not much recourse. There's a little something wrong with the way that call is made if it is that easily confused. Bet it changes in the future.
The replay shows the 1st and 2nd basemen both moving towards off the field of play, then reacting to the ump, both pumping their fists, as if to say "you rung him up". Even if the catcher had held onto the ball, the 1st baseman seeing the fist pump and leaving gives not much recourse. There's a little something wrong with the way that call is made if it is that easily confused. Bet it changes in the future.
With the different umpiring gestures, varies from umpire to umpire with no set rule, how can you be sure his gesture doesn't mean "strike", meaning "he swung" instead of "out"?
Happens all the time. Home plate umpire signals strike three yet overturned by base umpire on check swings.
Happens all the time. Home plate umpire signals strike three yet overturned by base umpire on check swings.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:
With the different umpiring gestures, varies from umpire to umpire with no set rule, how can you be sure his gesture doesn't mean "strike", meaning "he swung" instead of "out"?
Happens all the time. Home plate umpire signals strike three yet overturned by base umpire on check swings.
The players and coaches should get to know there friendly neighborhood umpires and their motions.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:
With the different umpiring gestures, varies from umpire to umpire with no set rule, how can you be sure his gesture doesn't mean "strike", meaning "he swung" instead of "out"?
Happens all the time. Home plate umpire signals strike three yet overturned by base umpire on check swings.
Linear...I'm not sure I've ever seen a base umpire overturn a called third strike by the home plate umpire on a check swing!
One contribution to this series of events was Paul replacing Molina in the 8th. Not that it’s an excuse but maybe Paul wasn’t “savvy” as to the physical gestures of the plate ump??? Just a thought??? 
quote:Originally posted by DaddyBo:quote:Originally posted by Linear:
With the different umpiring gestures, varies from umpire to umpire with no set rule, how can you be sure his gesture doesn't mean "strike", meaning "he swung" instead of "out"?
Happens all the time. Home plate umpire signals strike three yet overturned by base umpire on check swings.
Linear...I'm not sure I've ever seen a base umpire overturn a called third strike by the home plate umpire on a check swing!
I know where you're going but my response would be get out a little more. Watch more baseball.
Bad umpires exist at all levels of baseball.
Once a home plate ump calls a strike on a checked swing, it's a strike. Not open for reversal by base umpire.
quote:What about the FUNDAMENTAL mistake by the catcher? Catching the ball with the glove face down (wrong) instead of face up (right way).
I learned that in little league.
Beenthere...No catcher above HS level turns a glove over on a low pitch unless blocking.(not one that is successful anyway)
You possibly learned it in LL because that is the last place it is being taught (and should remain so).
quote:I know where you're going but my response would be get out a little more. Watch more baseball.
Bad umpires exist at all levels of baseball.
Linear...been out plenty in my 47 years (got the bad skin to prove it
)...playing, coaching and watching a lot of baseball...and I've NEVER SEEN nor HEARD OF a base ump overturning the home plate umpire's called third strike on a check swing! Can anyone else verify? 
Comfirmed, the only thing a base umpire can rule on is a check swing on a pitch called a ball............
called Strike is a strike period...
called Strike is a strike period...
Can't the HU confer (at the HU's initiation) with a base ump on any call? And wasn't the BU the HU conferred with last night the crew chief?
Yes, the UIC may go to any umpire for input into a call, but that input does not automatically overide the UIC call. The UIC then determines if the information provided by the BU is enough to change his own call....
BU can provide information, but his opinion does not override the UIC.....the only time that is the case is on a check swing called a ball. It is up to the UIC to decide to stay with his intitial call or overide himself based on any additional information....
BU can provide information, but his opinion does not override the UIC.....the only time that is the case is on a check swing called a ball. It is up to the UIC to decide to stay with his intitial call or overide himself based on any additional information....