Baker likens drug search to 'McCarthyism'

Whatever; MLB needs to take immediate steps to police themselves and clean it up.

1st time you get caught - suspension, second time - kicked out of MLB.

IMO

CV

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."

Earl Weaver

This from the guy that said White players are at a disadvantage playing in the heat.

As a game manager and handler of players, Dusty is fine. As an individual, he needs to open his eyes and look at the baseball world around him, and then look at the real world that surrounds it. Has any aspect of baseball ever not trickled down to the lower levels from the lords on high?

Two years ago, a close friend whose son plays D-1 told me that most position players on their team used creatine, and the guys that didn't were either actually, or perceived as being, at a competitive disadvantage. Until just now, I've never thought to ask my son, a freshman at a D-2, what he sees, but I know their drug and alcohol policy forbids it.


Can Dusty honestly think a crackdown on drugs in MLB is a bad thing? Constitutional rights? Communism? Reminds me of how pornographers always hide behind the First Amendment, and players go for the greed...er...green and say " I'm doing it for my family", like the difference between 8 million a year and 6 million a year will put them on the streets (Pudge?)


Disgusting.............

Read the article. The only thing Dusty seems to be against is people judging players based on their growth or size. (OK, I'm guilty as charged on that one.) He isn't condoning steroids at all.

Hokie

Creatine is not a drug and it is not on any list of banned items as far as I know--

TRhit

Dusty should be quiet and just be grateful that the Cubbies decided to spend all of that money for him and his "new" team.

Imagine what he would have done if the Cubbies still had all of those "stiffs" that Don Baylor had! Answer: Nothing!

creatine is banned in every where but baseball.

for all you history buffs, guess who inventive steriods and performance enhancement drugs,
a little hint, they brought us WWII

creatine and steriods are for players who don't have the talent to make it on their own, it is cheating plan and simple.

MLB baseball and Selig does not have the guts to admit they have a serious problem. Creatine anfd steriods are banned at the
minor league level but not the MLB level.

TR,

I'm far from expert, and I'm sure it's been debated on here before but the last I knew, which admittedly was a year or so ago, there were no long term studies of the effects of creatine. Maybe there are by now, but the advice my kids were being given, by coaches I considered pretty responsible, was to stay away from it.

Looking at the Blue Cross/Blue Shield web site info, www.healthycompetition.org, I'd be reluctant to use it, but not my purpose to launch a debate about it.

I am a pretty conservative person but I think Dusty's comments are salient and appropriate and I am in his corner on this one. He notes that steroid use is not to be tolerated but he sees the press approaching the issue so that players are being painted with such a broad brush that everyone gets implicated. You are guilty based on how you look and your body size until you prove you are not a user. My in-laws are a Japanese American family who were interned during WWII. Lost everything because of the way they looked not the way they conducted their life. I like what Dusty is saying. I admire his courage to make us stop and think where this is heading and to get focused on finding the guilty, not finding guilt by association.

Hokie

Not looking to debate--just pointing out that it is not a drug nor is it illegal

TRhit

Besides the distint physical advantages, steriods gives one a feeling of immortality which is a tremendous advantage over the course of a long season. Furthermore, there is no denying that sudden growth does indicate steriod use.

IMO, would say Dusty's relationship with current/former players Sosa/Bonds (both being guilty by suspicion), has swayed him on this issue.

"On two legs, Mickey Mantle would have been the greatest ballplayer who ever lived." - Nellie Fox

quote:

---

Sosa/Bonds (both being guilty by suspicion),

---

"Guilty by suspicion"? If you're trying to prove Dusty's point, you've done a great job.

Ironically, there was a recent story about Bonds' "weight gain" - and apparently, it's been anything but "sudden" in actual fact. He's been gaining bulk pretty consistently, year after year, ever since breaking into the majors, which is pretty common. (I have, too, over the past few decades. I'm pretty sure no one's gonna accuse me of anything other than too many "12 ounce curls" in my training program.)

D'oh!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dibble:
"creatine is banned in every where but baseball."

http://www.creatinemonohydrate.net/creatine_background.html#Creatine Information 1

Creatine is neither a drug nor banned anywhere. It's an amino acid produced by our body. Creatine Monohydrate is the supplement which is taken by Players that increases both the amount & "bioavailablity" of Creatine promoting muscle growth in Athletes that use it along with resistance training.

It is readily available in stores from Walgreens to GNC & isn't banned anywhere I'm aware of.

PDog, Point being Dusty spoke out because of his relationship with Sosa/Bonds who are two of the bigger names being bandied about and perhaps feels that the suspicion of both players would taint his accomplishments as manager. Fairly certain if Mcquire and Canseco were still playing they would be under the same scrutiny.

Growth and weight gain are not necessarily alike. Don't profess to be a medical expert, however have witnessed first hand two individuals close to me that were using steroids and the dramatic change in their body composition over the course of a few years was staggering (certainly not something one would achieve with even heavy lifting let alone too many 12 ounce curls). The growth rate can also vary depending on intake.

"On two legs, Mickey Mantle would have been the greatest ballplayer who ever lived." - Nellie Fox

"Fairly certain if Mcquire and Canseco were still playing they would be under the same scrutiny."
Didn't you hear? Canseco is trying out for the Dodgers.

vodoo,
you need to brush up on your reading.

The web site link sells creatine. it like asking phillip morris if tobacco is bad for your health.

your body produces steriods too, but players are injecting 100 times the normal dose of steriods, or amino.

did see a parent last year try to sell creatine or what ever was in his doctor bag to a top 25 baseball college coach. His sales pitch it would not show up in the NCAA drug testing and told how many of their competitors were taking it and their results

is not Jose in the fun house making license plates

DIBBLE

VC for once I am with you

Creatine is not a DRUG---- it is a supplement and legal --

You (Dibble) need to update your own reading--- Jose is reportedly trying out for the Dodgers

TRhit

Interesting note that Giambi reported looking much slimmer although his weight was only down about 4 pounds. Giambi explained it as hard work and a revised diet.

As far as Creatine goes it isn't illegal. Although it seems fairly safe I wouldn't recommend it for kids as the same result can be attained by having (a lot) more meat in the diet. Creatine can lead to dehydration and the effects tend to be negated by use of diuretics, i.e. caffeine.

Consumer Review: Creatine Monohydrate: The Next Drug To Be Banned By The NCAA?

http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/creatine147r.html



Canseco to attend Dodgers tryouts
By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com Buy tickets

VERO BEACH, Fla. -- Jose Canseco, out of baseball since 2001, told the Dodgers he would attend the club's open tryout Monday at Dodgertown.
Canseco originally asked the Dodgers to send scouts to watch him practice, but the club had no interest in that.

"We told him he could come to the tryout," said Matt Slater, director of professional scouting.

Canseco, 40 in July, has 462 career home runs.

The body naturally produces and uses about 2g of creatine a day, although the body can consume much more, however...creatine has a byproduct called creatinine that needs to be processed by the kidneys, and if there is too much it can seriously damage the kidneys. Also, dont tell me the people taking creatine are merely taking 2-4g a day. they are taking 20-30, which is a 1000%-1500% increase in the body's normal consumption. That, to me, can not be safe.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/likness2.htm
Read the first section and the "is it safe" section, and any others you wish to. That, keep in mind, is also from a website that sells creatine based products.

NJ Pitch

Oh, who are we kidding here. Bonds used steroids, Sosa used steroids.
Sammy, although very personable, is a liar.
Ironic that Dusty's benefitted from two of the biggest roidheads in the game.

phillyfan

Have you got proof????

TRhit

All of this debate is silly because no one will ever prove that Bonds, Sosa and the rest ever took 'roids because they were never tested for it. Case Closed! However it's great testing is now allowed.

My '04 needs to put on about 20 lbs and has a plan to do so over the next 18 months. He has a protein drink which contains about 3.5 grams of creatine, so I OK'd it. Any parent that is not monitoring they're kids in regards to this is, although not breaking any laws, in the end, not doing their kids any good. Any fast weight gain or loss is very unhealthy....period.

moptop

The use of creatine MUST be done under the watchful eye of a good trainer who know baseball work outs and nutrition--- when used properly it can be a huge benefit in the boys workouts-if he is not going to be properly supervised and instrcuted than stay away from using it.

TRhit

I believe anything that has a "magic pill" mentality associated with it is suspect. I also believe creatine has that mentality. There is no magic pill to gaining weight....except to consume more calories, and wait for maturity. There have been no studies that say it's dangerous....yet. The desire to be bigger or smaller has been around forever.

Not all that long ago there was a magic pill for weight reduction. It was FDA tested, approved, and taken under a doctors supervision. Safe right? Wrong, many lost their lives or their heart valves. It was called Phen Phen.

There is nothing wrong with trying to improve ourselves...but I think our impatience and need for instant gratification may hurt us terribly. Not a risk I was worth taking with my children or myself. Accept who we are and what we look like, and earn it naturally. IMHO

"There's no crying in baseball!"