Balk?

quote:

Originally posted by POLOGREEN:
Pitcher with bases loaded stands on the pitchers plate with both feet, places the ball in his glove and fixes it's position. Then he takes his hand out of the glove places it at his side, takes the sign from the catcher and goes back into the glove and goes into his windup and pitches the ball.

Technically, a balk.

Technically but it is accepted to allow the pitcher to set the ball then drop his hand if he wants.

Agree with you MST !

Balk. Move the runners.

Depends on how long he spends positioning the ball. Evans covers this nicely in his video.

I personally think a lot of parents, coaches, and umpires are too obsessed with balks. Balk rules require not only an illegal delivery or motion, but also "an attempt to deceive." In most cases when balks are called (especially in youth baseball), there was no attempt to deceive. Let em play ball. It's a baseball field, not a courtroom; and they're ballplayers, not lawyers.

quote:

Originally posted by Turtleboy:
I personally think a lot of parents, coaches, and umpires are too obsessed with balks. Balk rules require not only an illegal delivery or motion, but also "an attempt to deceive." In most cases when balks are called (especially in youth baseball), there was no attempt to deceive. Let em play ball. It's a baseball field, not a courtroom; and they're ballplayers, not lawyers.

Not quite true. First, some deception is legal. Next, as Evans study of the history of balks reveals that there are three "types" of balks: Deceptive Balks, those balks whose sole purpose is illegal deception, Mechanical Balks, a vioation that is simply procedural more than anything else, such as stepping with the wrong foot when moving from windup to set, and I what believe he referred to as Penal Balks, wherein the rules makers decided that certain action would be illegal and the proper penalty should be a balk.

I am of two minds when it comes to Balks....I agree completly with Jimmy as I am a fan of the Evans balk video which I believe is the best reference for calling balks available...

And since this is a HS site, I think we would all agree that this is Big Boy Ball and we can/should expect the pitchers to know the rules and mechanics and also have an expectation of athleticism of the runners that any illegal deception would adversely affect the runner. Call the balks....

Should we be discussing youth baseball, and soon when summer starts, we certainly will be....the level of understanding of what is or what is not a a balk by pitchers and coaches and the athleticism of the runners can drop dramatically.....

In a local rec league that my association covers about half the 13-14 yr old players coming in to the program come from programs that dont call balks in the 11-12 yr old age group...The pitchers are a balk fest nightmare....the league has a 2 week instructional "dead ball call" no penalty balk rule...then after that the balk and penalty is enforced.....

In watching these games, training umpires for these games and filling in calling these games, if we were to call all three types of balks the games would be interminable and we as umpires would be ridden out on a rail.....even though we would be 100% correct in doing so...

So some sort of middle ground has to be reached...its why many umpires, myself included, avoid doing lower level ball as I do not like to have differing levels of code enforcement and strike zones....

quote:

Originally posted by Turtleboy:
I personally think a lot of parents, coaches, and umpires are too obsessed with balks. Balk rules require not only an illegal delivery or motion, but also "an attempt to deceive." In most cases when balks are called (especially in youth baseball), there was no attempt to deceive. Let em play ball. It's a baseball field, not a courtroom; and they're ballplayers, not lawyers.

Deception is such a small part of balks, I wish people would take it out of their venacular. To somebody who is not a trained umpire and are asked to explain balks, the first thing you hear is it is the pitcher deceives the runner.
Where is the deception when the pitcher drops the ball on the rubber? If the pitcher is in the set, he has to stop before he pitches, he doesn't if he is going to a base. If he is changing from the windup to set or visaversa, he has to step off with the proper foot. If he he goes to first from an engaged move he has to throw, but not to second or third.
If he comes set and turns to first, that's a deception balk, a feint to first. There are many more that are rule or mechanical balks, deception is a miniscule part of the rule.
In OBR it is mentioned in a note, an instruction to the umpires that was added in the early '70s. It says when doubt of intention, use deception as a guideline.
Call balks, move runners, pitchers learn. Warn pitchers and it happens again. Pitchers see runners move and they think that they don't want to see it happen again so they fix the problem.
If you can't tell, this is a hot button issue for me.

My cardinal rule on balks: Call the same balk in the bottom of the last with a runner on third as you did in the second with a runner on first.

A lot of great answers here from the pros....In our league as umpires we call the balks in 10-12 division that play high school rules; have lead-offs, dropped 3rd strike. There was a coaches meeting and clinic before the season and we gave the teams a 3-game period where we would not move the runners but would let coaches/pitcher know it was a balk/and why. It has paid real dividends with regard to the 13-15 division as there have not been many balks called because they were more prepared.

100% agree with Jimmy on calling it consistently regardless of the situation. I called it in a 16-18 game last weekend putting winning run on 3rd who scored on a flare over short to end the game (pitcher quick pitched/no complete stop). I was a hero to one side of the field and a goat to the other side.

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:
A lot of great answers here from the pros....In our league as umpires we call the balks in 10-12 division that play high school rules; have lead-offs, dropped 3rd strike. There was a coaches meeting and clinic before the season and we gave the teams a 3-game period where we would not move the runners but would let coaches/pitcher know it was a balk/and why. It has paid real dividends with regard to the 13-15 division as there have not been many balks called because they were more prepared.

100% agree with Jimmy on calling it consistently regardless of the situation. I called it in a 16-18 game last weekend putting winning run on 3rd who scored on a flare over short to end the game (pitcher quick pitched/no complete stop). I was a hero to one side of the field and a goat to the other side.

And I'm sure that was an unique situation for you.

quote:

And I'm sure that was an unique situation for you.

Hey ther are times when both sides don't like you so having one side happy at least gives you a clean exit lane...ha!