Balk

I'm not getting a good picture from your description. You are mixing OBR and Fed. The rule you quote is a pro rule, but you are asking about HS. In Fed they use set position to mean both stretch position and set position.
It sounds like he had established himself on the rubber, then reached in his glove to grab the ball, this would be a balk. If he he steps on the rubber and immediately positions the ball in his glove or reaches in and takes the ball out, he is OK.
To try to make it clearer, when the pitcher steps on the rubber, he can get comfortable which may include positioning the ball. What he can't do is get settled and then position the ball.

Please describe to me how he was in contact with the rubber and had not yet established one of the two positions....remember, the stretch is part of the set position.

I will be happy to explain, Since my post, have talked to 2 umpires in NFHS and a minor league umpire who handles disputes for aabc in this area. According to all 3 here is the answer I received.

1) The rule I quote is also attributed to Fed rules. A "legal pitching " position is the wind up or the set. A pitcher in "the stretch" is not in a legal pitching position until he comes to a 'set" which we all know what aset is so no need to elaborate....

-the stretch is a preliminary action to the set...as indicated IN THE MIDDLE OF CLAUSE 8.01
"BEFORE assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as "the stretch."

Furthermore, it was noted to me that in rule 8,05 A, B,C,D describing balks, the rule specifically "the pitcher, WHILE TOUCHING HIS PLATE,.....

Rule 8,05J makes no such distinction, Again it states, "the pitcher, after coming to a legal pitching position" ( which is only 2 positions windup and set--not stretch--removes the ball....")

It was also noted that there isnt anything that established this sitation being a balk by merely being on the plate (rubber) in a stretch position,

Hence, this is not a balk .

OK green, here we go.
You seem to be under the impression that a pitcher can be intentionally in contact with the rubber and not give any indication of whether he is using the wind up or the set position. This simply isn't so.
The pitcher, when he steps on the rubber, gives indication of which pitching position he is using by how he positions his feet. In your OP it sounds like the pitcher gave indication of using the set position. At the time he positions his feet in this manner all of the set position restrictions apply. They do not only apply after the pitcher has become fully set; i.e. both hands together in front of the body.
In a technical sense there are three parts to using the set position...1) initial indication 2)going through the stretch and 3) being fully set. All three are part of the process of using the set position and the entire process is subject to certain restrictions as stated in the rules. #2 (going through the stretch) must be done in a manner that is continuous and without hesitation before becoming fully set.
Therefore, if the pitcher gave an initial indication of using the set position, took his sign from the catcher and then just reached into his glove and pulled the ball out and did nothing more, he did indeed balk.

Once he addresses the rubber, he establishes 1 of 2 positions. The "set" position may be precluded by a "stretch" but the pitching rules still apply.

Once he puts his hands together, he is in the "set" position. When he takes his hands apart, he has violated 8.05(j).

8.01(b) has everything about coming to the "set" position.

Also, 4 out of 4 umpires recommend this is a balk. You might want your pitcher to quit doing it.

Thanks for the reponses. I have 4 here who say it's a balk, 3 others including a minor league ump who says it is not. He states it is "not a set he pauses so he has never established a proper position" However, he points that he can see how others interprate as to what a set is.....I guess the only one that matters most is league who uses the minor league I spoke with as asource who states it is not a balk. Interesting converstion piece--so I suppose we have varying opinions and will agree to disagree. I appreciate all the responses

I should add for those responding, there was no sign taken etc. It was very quick. The pitcher stepped on the rubber and when the batter stepped out of the box to get signs from the 3b coach, he immed reached in his glove and took the ball out...Again thanks for the responses. I checked with the 4 of you and the 3 in this area and it seems there are differring opinions.

Getting the signs means nothing.

It is sounding more like a HTBT situation now. The batter stepped out may be grounds for a "start from scratch" call as I had this weekend.

Without all of the info and timing of things, this may not be one that can be answered without seeing it.

I was going by F1 addresses the rubber and is there longer than just a moment as if he was attempting to get his sign. Then, he starts to put his hands together but brings them apart again. Thus, that would violate 8.05(j) b/c putting his hands together puts him in the "set" position minus the "complete stop" part of it (which he only needs to do if he is going to throw a pitch).

Mr Umpire:

I know getting the sign means nothing in itself- but it is relevant to the quickness and sqequence of what happened!! I was trying to paint the picture. I agree with you..I saw it happen, obviously I'm the coach, you guys did not! I played college ball and coached hs for almost 20 years.. I have also umped for years in the summer--and never came across this being called in this manner---it happened so quick---on the rubber, step out for signs, take the ball out--boom boom boom. It just has my curiosity. I suppose in the end it becomes a judgment call. I don't think as an ump, I would make that call--I obv didn't like it called against me!!!!! Like I said, I appreciate the responses! I stumbled across this website last night and thought I'd join

If yu read my response I addressed both situations of timing. The batter stepping out was never mentioned and brings a different element to the equation.
I said the pitcher gets a settling in time where he can reach in his glove and position the ball or take it out. Once that brief period is over then reaching in and coming back out is a balk.
If the pitcher is getting on the rubber and the batter steps out then I have nothing. If he was in the box and the pitcher has stepped on and established, then reaches in his glove and doesn't come set, BALK.
Ask your MiLB umpire if he has ever called a balk for a pitcher starting to come set and then doesn't.
Remember, you can balk before you are set, you can even balk while not engaged but it hard. Off the rubber I believe there are two balks possible. Standing astride without the ball and pitching or similating a pitch off the rubber.

quote:

Originally posted by green122895@hotmail.com:
Thanks for the reponses. I have 4 here who say it's a balk, 3 others including a minor league ump who says it is not. He states it is "not a set he pauses so he has never established a proper position" However, he points that he can see how others interprate as to what a set is.....I guess the only one that matters most is league who uses the minor league I spoke with as asource who states it is not a balk. Interesting converstion piece--so I suppose we have varying opinions and will agree to disagree. I appreciate all the responses

The three others, including the minor league umpire are wrong, even in OBR. First, please tell me if the stretch is part of the windup? No, its not. When used, it tells us, along with with things, such as the positioning of the feet, that the pitcher is in utilizing the set poisiton.

Next read rule 8.05 (a) through (m) and come back and tell us how many times the phrase "The pitcher, while toucning his plate...." appears.

You have some very experienced umpires here, some with MiLB experience and some with pro training givinv you the correct information.