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18 replies

Balk?

biggerpapibiggerpapi5,000+ posts
Does MLB rule 8.05(m) cover this situation?

Runners on base. As pitcher begins his motion, umpire calls balk. Pitcher continues with his pitch and the batter hits it for a single.

One theory says a balk is instant dead ball...no pitch.

The other theory (and maybe the rule above) indicates the play can continue and then stand if it ends well for the offensive team.

BTW, here's how rule 8.05(m) reads:

The pitcher delivers the pitch from Set Position without coming to a stop. PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.
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D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
Under FED rules, the ball is dead immediately on all balks. There can be no pitch.

The rule you quoted is the OBR rule. It (properly) doesn't call it a delayed dead ball. It is a live ball. If the batter reaches 1st and all other runners advance at least one base, the ball stays live and the balk is ignored. If not, the ball is dead and the penalty for the balk is enforced. The offense has the option of refusing the penalty and taking the result of the play.

To me, the concept of "delayed dead ball" is silly. The fact that the ball may become dead is of no consequence to the play, and irrelevant to the players. The ball is either live or dead.

Come to think of it, we are all delayed dead.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
Dash:
I was with you right up until you said the offense has the option. You correctly state that in Fed it is an immediate dead ball, no pitch or play allowed. In OBR, if the pitcher pitches, you allow the play to happen. If all runners advance at least one base and the BR reaches at least first safely then the balk is ignored. If any of these conditions aren't met then the balk is enforced. It is not like a CI where the manager gets an option. It is either a balk or a play.
biggerpapibiggerpapi5,000+ posts
Okay, let me ask you another way. OBR is MLB rules, right?

If that's true, how come everytime I see the home plate umpire call a balk, he'll whip off his mask and come running out from behind the catcher yelling balk and pointing at the pitcher.

With all of this happening, the pitcher never actually throws the pitch and if he did, the umpire would be out of position (and in danger of being hurt) to make a call on the resulting swing.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Okay, let me ask you another way. OBR is MLB rules, right?

If that's true, how come everytime I see the home plate umpire call a balk, he'll whip off his mask and come running out from behind the catcher yelling balk and pointing at the pitcher.

With all of this happening, the pitcher never actually throws the pitch and if he did, the umpire would be out of position (and in danger of being hurt) to make a call on the resulting swing.


I assure you if he comes out, he is sure he has stopped the pitcher.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Okay, let me ask you another way. OBR is MLB rules, right?

If that's true, how come everytime I see the home plate umpire call a balk, he'll whip off his mask and come running out from behind the catcher yelling balk and pointing at the pitcher.


The pitcher has stopped. Now the ball can be "killed."

In MLB, most umpires will make the balk call in such a way (LOUD)as to encourage the players to stop action so they have a cleaner mess to deal with.
B BCRockets100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
quote:
Originally posted by BCRockets:
Here's one that happened in our game today... pitcher engages the rubber, then adjusts his cap. Balk or no?


Yes it is but generally not called.


That's what I thought. I have never heard of that before, but it got called against us with a runner at third in a close ball game. My main problem was while technically a balk, I didn't feel it was an attempt to deceive the runner. It seemed like a petty thing to call in that situation, but rules are rules.
TA The All Knowing Garth10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
You have to remember that deceiving the runner is only a portion of the balk rule. There are a list of technical balks that are called all the time. Dropping the ball on the rubber, failure to stop and others are not deception balks.

Failure to stop does not deceive R? Yes, it does or could. Dropping the ball, yes, it does or could.

Deception is at the root of all balk calls. Deception is defined as the fact or state of being deceived noting that nowhere in this definition is there a a requirement that the deception be voluntary or premeditated.

So I disagree, Michael.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
You may disagree, your option. I am only explaining what 99% of the officiating community knows and understands. The whole deception portion of 8.05 is in the note that was added way after the rule was written. It is instructing umpires to use deception as a portion of the rule.
How is throwing an illegal pitch deceiving the runner? Delay of game? Throwing a IW without the catcher in the box? And dropping the ball?

These are all technical balks, that if anything deceives the batter not the runner.

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