Balk Questions

With no runners it is nothing unless the ball rolls over the foul line, then it's a ball.
Are you talking from the wind-up? If so, to throw to first he either has to step off with his pivot foot or step to first with his free foot. If he steps back with his free foot then that's the start of his pitch and he has to go to the plate.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
With no runners it is nothing unless the ball rolls over the foul line, then it's a ball.
Are you talking from the wind-up? If so, to throw to first he either has to step off with his pivot foot or step to first with his free foot. If he steps back with his free foot then that's the start of his pitch and he has to go to the plate.

Sorry I should have clarified. Going from the stretch. As a right handed pitcher I would be facing 3rd base. Could I take my left (free) foot and step towards 1st. My heel would be facing 1st and then throw to 1st? If thats not legal is there a way this would be possible?

Yes, that is legal. If you do that you have to throw. If the ball goes in dead ball then it is only one base.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
Yes, that is legal. If you do that you have to throw. If the ball goes in dead ball then it is only one base.

Thanks I appreciate the insight. I think I'll print this out and show it to the ump when he calls a balk on me for trying this Thursday. hehe. I've already done the strikeout thing.

Dropped 3rd strike i jogged back to the dugout but DID NOT GO IN! Then I went out to 1st base. Thank goodness for my rule book.

Be careful on the DTS routine. If you play in a league that uses "Sporting News Rules" then they have changed it to leaving the circle. If you play in a league that uses the other version of OBR, can't remember the name, then you are OK.

Like the on-deck circle? My Sporting News still says the dugout.

Not the on deck circle. The circular dirt area around home plate.

Ahh...we don't have one of those in our diamond. I did it last year and I had the rulebook - ump let me stay after we showed him. but he also said don't do it agian. hehe

He could throw to first as long as he didn't pivot on towards 1with his foot still on the rubber.

Am I wrong on that?

Under Fed rules, from the wind up position, the pitcher must step off (pivot foot first) before throwing to a base.
Under OBR the pitcher doesn't have to disengage first. He can pivot, step toward the base and throw from the rubber.

So I could spin all the way around and throw?

quote:

Sorry I should have clarified. Going from the stretch. As a right handed pitcher I would be facing 3rd base. Could I take my left (free) foot and step towards 1st. My heel would be facing 1st... If thats not legal is there a way this would be possible?

Balk! Maybe, guess I'm needing more info. I say okay from Wind-up. Stretch..

First, not sure why you'd wanna try this?
I can't get much on the ball with my "heel remaining pointed towards 1st".

Your description sounds almost like a "snap throw", like a lefty on the rubber just sliding his free foot an inch or so, no step, then throwing. Balk, he has to disengage (step back) before doing this.
1st move; you lift your free foot, this starts your pitching motion, you must pitch, OR step directly towards the base your throwing to, if you put it back down without pitching with your toes still pointing to third I don't see a step towards 1st.
Sounds almost like more your leaning backwards towards 1st.

No, I definately take a step. I do turn my shouldler though, does that make it illegal? I find it rather easy to get something on the ball.

I'm feeling a balk, free foot comes up ya gotta pitch, when you replant the free foot you just stopped the pitching motion without stepping towards 1st.
Remember there's only two legal moves for a righty going to 1st while incontact:
1 jab step, the right foot actually goes towards 3rd off the rubber, replants as you turn, step, and throw, or 2. jump, which has both feet off the ground as you spin, step, and throw.

quote:

Originally posted by jjk:
Remember there's only two legal moves for a righty going to 1st while incontact:
1 jab step, the right foot actually goes towards 3rd off the rubber, replants as you turn, step, and throw, or 2. jump, which has both feet off the ground as you spin, step, and throw.

Not correct. When in contact with the rubber, you can step to first and throw to first.

quote:

Originally posted by NeilKelty:
I think I'll print this out and show it to the ump when he calls a balk on me for trying this Thursday. hehe. I've already done the strikeout thing.

Dropped 3rd strike i jogged back to the dugout but DID NOT GO IN! Then I went out to 1st base. Thank goodness for my rule book.

I STRONGLY recommend not "going rulebook" on an umpire unless you really want to be ejected from the game. Any attempt by a player to show me up (especially in a summer league game) will be met with force on my part. Don't be surprised if you run into another umire like that. You are guaranteed to raise the ire of the umpire if you pull a stunt like that. as for a printout from this site, that would just be silly since we are not an official ruling body, we are just a collection of guys giving our opinions (as far as the umpire you are dealing with is concerned anyway).

Now as for the question about stepping backwards to first, I would rule it a balk. My logic is two-fold. 1)the rules do not allow it. They specifically say step towards first, this means your toes pointed at first base. If your toes are pointed at third base that is a step "away from third" and not a "step toward first". 2)Have you ever seen it in a pro game? I haven't and if it isn't allowed there I sure as heck am not going to allow it in my games. (If it were allowed there, someone would have done it or be doing it).

After thinking about it I guess it would be borderline...here's why I'm having 2nd thoughts

The fundamentals of balks are to keep the pitcher from decieving the runner - thats pretty much what i would be doing here.

quote:

Originally posted by NeilKelty:
The fundamentals of balks are to keep the pitcher from ILLEGALLY decieving the runner - thats pretty much what i would be doing here.

Fixed that for you

If a pitcher is in the stretch but his shoulder is kinda tilted towards first is that a balk? he is kinda half stetch and half wind up ?

I'm not an ump, but a pretty close reader of the rulebook. I've got a comment and a question, so I'll do them in two separate posts.

Comment to Cougar: From a terminolgy standpoint, there are two pitiching positions -- the WINDUP position and the SET position. The "stretch" is a prelimiary movement that happens prior to coming to the SET position. In each of the two positions the pitcher must stand "facing the batter".

I'll leave it at that and let the experienced umps comment on the "shoulder kinda tilted..."

And now my question ...

From OBR: "The pitcher, following his stretch, must (a) hold the ball in both hands in front of his body and (b) come to a complete stop."

Was watching an MLB game on TV, and when the the pitcher in the set position came to a complete stop, his hands were together -- but they were above the level of his head.

Apparently this qualifies as being "in front of his body", because no balk was called.

To our experienced umps out there, I'm guesing you don't see this much, but does this meet the rules, or is it just something that they let major leaguers get away with.

Thanks!

If a pitcher is in the stretch but his shoulder is kinda tilted towards first is that a balk? he is kinda half stetch and half wind up ?


If he comes set with his shoulders pointed directly at 1st that's okay. How he get's there is the concern.
If he comes from the stretch with a wild flinging of his shoulders, (and there ain't much leeway in my eyes)then stops in the set, balk. In fact with any quick move with the shoulders he better be throwing to 1st)..
If while going from stretch to set his shoulders are turning very slowly, carefully, as a part of his natural motion fine.

Wow, not sure how this got on this post, I thought I was replying to a different one, but since I'm here;

Coming set in front of his body is okay, from J/R "this includes the head". IMO above as in "higher than" your head can still be in front of your head. But directly over your head, not in front of your body, balk.

i have a question. when picking off to 2nd (left hander from stretch) i jsut picked up my right leg and turned to 2nd then runner took off for 3rd so i threrw to 3rd other team yelling balk (runner still got there 3rd baseman not paying attenion) umps said it didnt matter because he was safe anyway but its just bugging me does it sound like it was a balk?

Assuming you rotated towards first base (270 degrees to third base), I wouldn't think this would be a balk. You are allowed to feint to second, so if you start to second and stop, that's not a balk. If you then continue on to throw to third, that's not a balk, either.