Bargain Players

Raider,

Excellent question, I've been wondering about that same possibility myself. It seems to me that with 11.7 scholarships, that if a player is able to get the assistance he needs from other sources (academic scholarships, etc.), that would make him more desirable at least as far as inclusion on the team. Having said that, I have no experience on this matter, only speculation.

A related question. Does anyone know at the DI level if it is possible to blend academic and athletic money? Or does the athletic diminish the academic, or vice versa? I seem to recall that there might be an issue with blending scholarships, but am not sure of the answer.

montanadad ...

The blending of athletic and academic monies varies by schools, I believe. At the school my son attended, if he had received any academic scholarship money, it would have impacted the 11.7 athletic schollies for the team ... in other words, it would have gone "against" the 11.7 and there would have been less money available for the team.

Montana, I believe academic money eliminates athletic money on scholarships open to everyone. However, if a player has academic tuition money, athletic money could then pay for housing, books, meal plan, etc.

I have heard directly from D1 coaches that quality players with academic money (like Hope or Bright Futures) are valuable to them because they stretch their assistance budget. Same with in-state players for state colleges. "We have to show the administration that an out-of-state guy will be the team stud if we want to maintain our good relationship."

I wouldn't think that the Bonus Baby analogy would be that direct, as athletic scholarships are for the year only. It's up to the athlete to prove they're worth renewing as much as it's up to the coach to use his investment wisely and prove its worth.

A "paid for" guy showing he is better on the field than an athletic scholarship guy would be like finding money for the coach.

I don't think you can avoid considering talent in the equation --- a good program with a successful coach (what we all want) is going to be putting the best player in the position whether he's schollied in or not.

Scholarship blending (merging Athletic and Academic money) is allowed at both the D1 and D2 levels. The rules are pretty explicit about the student's qualifications that he has to have in order for his academic money NOT to count against the Athletic slots.

You must meet one of the following criteria:
A: 1200 SAT (1150 for D2)
B: 3.5 Core GPA
C: Top 10% of graduating class (Top 20% for D2)

After that, you cannot be eligible for academic awards above and beyond what is available to the general student body just because you qualify and are an athlete. If you SAT score, etc, etc puts you in a position to get a 3,000 academic award under general school policy, then the school cannot give you a 5,000 academic award just because you are an athlete.

Raider,

What ever they invest in a player is related to what they think of a player.

Not always the case, but it is that way more than not. Why? They can not afford to be wrong...or even worse, they don't want to admit they were wrong.

The good news for the coaches, is that they can redistribute that money year to year.

Nice thoughts. I have no hidden agenda here. I am just thinking out loud. It seems to me if a player proves he has value and isn't costing the school much, he should have an inside track to staying on. But, as funneldrill states, many coaches may not want to admit they were wrong with the money they have spent on someone else. Hence, the term "bargain player". Is it a plus or should the guy try to get everything he can from the school?

Careful, careful...

Some schools equate $ given with talent level.

Some are thrilled if you pay your way and given two players of eqiual ability will take the cheaper on so that they have more $ to give to Bluechips. (actually was told this by a High end DI college coach at a showcase last weekend)

Some schools are very political, some schools are very sensitive to the problems created by not playing high $ recruits.

The key is to be VERY sure what the understanding is.

Raider 06,
You have some great ideas and thoughts. Applying them in the college baseball world is tough because of 11.7 and every program being different. Based on an experience I had with one of our children, I would suggest the following:
1. Until your son is on campus and competing, you have no idea how he will fare in the competition for playing time; you don't know where he fits and how "equal" his skills really are;
2. In a lot of circumstances, you just don't know how far you can go with coaches on $$$. They do this for a living, we do not;
3. You don't know which school and which offer are going to match with the best fit and feel for your son;
My suggestion would be that if there are offers for your son, you try and negotiate what seems fair for your son at the best school/fit for him. Fair will be what feels right for you, at the school that seems right for your son compared with what the coach says they have available and how close they end up being.
Once your son is on campus, has played for one year and you have a sense where he fits, if you want to offer to give some back, then that would be the time to do it and I am sure the coach would be very happy to take it and it should not hurt your son as he has proven his worth/value/productivity. Personally, because of all the variabilities, I don't think, in most situations, you can count on having your son viewed as a bargain by coaches unless and until he and the coaches are satisfied he has proven himself or you have coaches who are very straightforward and honest in their appraisal of your son and his ability to contribute to their program. Please know that there are coaches like this though.

I am pleased to know several collegiate coaches who I have the utmost respect for. I am not trying to demean any of them. Just making conversation. Personally, I feel the bigger problem comes with the kids and/or possibly their parents egoes. A lot of young men today may be prouder of what $$$ amount they may have received than if they(with parents)had paid their own way. Then, on the other hand, if they got a great offer they most likely deserved it.

Raider...Big Ego, Big Problem...Years ago knew a manufacturers rep who gave out free sports equipment to budding superstars. The rep told nme that non qualified players parents would call and beg to pay double the price for the equipment if the they could publicized as being on the "free list"

O44,
That's kind of what I was getting at in my last post. Perception is sooo important. What got me started on this conversation is a conversation with my son. He is being courted by some D-1 schools, but not his favorite. In our discussion, I have told him if he is dead set on going to that school, he might consider walking on. His reply about walk ons not having a fair shot is what got me thinking.

Raider, I just had this conversation with a friend. My '05 didn't get an offer from his #1 although he was heavily recruited by them all fall. He had thoughts of walking on as well and I would have completely supported him had he made that decision. There are so many things a person must consider in their fit. Hopefully, your '06 will hang in there, as you never know who will be around the corner! It may be a new favorite with a nice offer! Good luck in his decisions!

With the subject of walk-ons, you may have gotten a lot of anecdotal evidence that this guy or that guy did or didn't get his shot. The potential for a walk-on is unique to each situation.

If your son is set on a particular school, have him (it means more to them if they see things for themselves) take a good look at last year's stats: have they got a solid player at your son's position and how much older is he? If the starter is, say, in his senior year, did the backup get enough playing time to indicate that he is being groomed as the next starter, and what year is that player.

No matter how good your son is, the "known" player will have an advantage and the existence of those players, in place, may well be why that school isn't contacting your son -- they have no needs at that position.

Should your son be a pitcher, the game changes a bit, but he still needs to compare his abilities (and handedness) to those pitchers on the roster. They won't be recruiting what they don't need AND their needs will impact his chances as a walk-on.

Dream School vs Good Fit? Take the Good Fit: the school that meets your son's needs and actively wants him is the better path.

Great advice, Orlando. My advice to him is similar and probably not original. I have told him all ball players would love to play in a particular place, but you will probably end up happier somewhere where they love you.

Money or no money, doesn't matter when game time arrives, it's TALENT that's gonna play. College coaches are there to win, period. If their $-players are not producing for them, they don't play. No amount of money guarantees play time! BUT, being a recruited player does count, because the number of recruited athletes usually more than fills the rosters at many programs. Walk-ons do happen but the % of walk-on players is very low per team and rare in most major programs. It's definitely not something to count on. A recruited-walk on may have some advantage over the unknown player but still risky if baseball is the only reason for choosing the school.

Orlando - I agree it is very important to go where they show you the love. I've said before and still believe that after you talk with several schools, you can "feel" how badly they want him.