Baseball
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Player gives coaches lip
Player is GONE
It is termed disrespect
Player is GONE
It is termed disrespect
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Player gives coaches lip
Player is GONE
It is termed disrespect
Handled accordingly. Anything else would be doing the young man a disservice.
I don't know about what TRhit says, but the way I handle it is if the player gives me lip, he sits the next game. If it continues we have a meeting in my office, maybe something is going on outside the baseball field. If it continues, my final step would be having a meeting WITH the parents and see what's the problem. It would be according to how the parents act at that particular meeting if we need to part ways. I give the kid as many chances as I can before it spreads amongst the team.
Rock-N Fire
I am probably a bit older than you and at this point in time I do not have time for kids with no respect---what I do have time for is going to a college game to see a young man who played for us 5 years ago and in turn run into his parents at the game and his mom gives me a great big kiss and hug and we have a great conversation before and after the game---to me that it what is all about-- the respect on both parts is what makes it all worthwhile--the young man and I have been in touch thru his college career and his coach keeps me appraised as to how the boy is doing both as a player and a young man
I am probably a bit older than you and at this point in time I do not have time for kids with no respect---what I do have time for is going to a college game to see a young man who played for us 5 years ago and in turn run into his parents at the game and his mom gives me a great big kiss and hug and we have a great conversation before and after the game---to me that it what is all about-- the respect on both parts is what makes it all worthwhile--the young man and I have been in touch thru his college career and his coach keeps me appraised as to how the boy is doing both as a player and a young man
When a player talks back to a coach every other player on that team is watching and waiting to see what the coach is going to do and how he is going to handle it. If the punishment is not instant , clear and severe you have lost the respect of your team and the ability to lead it. Bottom line he is gone. Right then no questions asked. Everyone sees how it is handled and what happens when you talk back to a coach. There is no tolerance for this behavior. Anyone else want to join him? I didnt think so. Lets move on shall we.
He was having a bad day. He has some issues going on. You got 15 20 guys on your team. So what happens if at least one of those guys has a bad day each day? Or at least one of those guys has some issues each day? The only meeting I would have with the parents is if they asked me to tell them what happened I would be glad to tell them he was kicked off the team for talking back to the coach or coaches. How they handled it has nothing to do with the actions of the player.
He was having a bad day. He has some issues going on. You got 15 20 guys on your team. So what happens if at least one of those guys has a bad day each day? Or at least one of those guys has some issues each day? The only meeting I would have with the parents is if they asked me to tell them what happened I would be glad to tell them he was kicked off the team for talking back to the coach or coaches. How they handled it has nothing to do with the actions of the player.
I commend you on your accomplishments TRhit. I really do. An as you state, you may do things differently than I do. I respect that. I just believe in giving a kid a chance and not just throw him off of a team for a little lip. I was one of those kids once and if it wasn't for the coach, I would have probably started breaking the law and ended up in prison if my coach gave up on me like that and I couldn't play sports. I'm 34 and I still talk with that same coach today.
Those type of kids stop being those type of kids when they realize those type of kids will not be allowed to be those type of kids.
Or they get kicked off the team and realize that those type of kids are not allowed to be those type of kids so they they stop being those type of kids so they can be on the team.
By biggest concern in a situation like this would be to make sure I got this kid to safety before my upper class guys got to him. You dont mess with my boys coach. They learned that from their coach. No one is going to disrespect my players without dealing with me first.
Or they get kicked off the team and realize that those type of kids are not allowed to be those type of kids so they they stop being those type of kids so they can be on the team.
By biggest concern in a situation like this would be to make sure I got this kid to safety before my upper class guys got to him. You dont mess with my boys coach. They learned that from their coach. No one is going to disrespect my players without dealing with me first.
quote:I am probably a bit older than you and at this point in time I do not have time for kids with no respect
TR-- I had the greatest situation last year when I coached a summer team. For one, I was an assistant anyways. Our head coach for that specific team was very much in the same boat I was though. The only paperwork we dealt with was the line ups and the scorebook. Our varsity coach took care of EVERYTHING else. And if we had any issues with parents, players, etc-- we didn't deal with it. The varsity coach dealt with it. And he's very blunt..
you dont have players who talk back. Period.
Wouldn't/shouldn't the players past record stand for something in a situation like this?
If the kid has played for you for 2-3 years already and has been an exceptional player on and off the field,would 1 incident really be enough to kick a kid off a team.We all have bad days and sometimes,there is something going on behind the scenes and maybe,just maybe,the coach pushes a button that caused him to lash out.
I am not saying a punishment is not in order but these should be case dependant imo.
If the kid has played for you for 2-3 years already and has been an exceptional player on and off the field,would 1 incident really be enough to kick a kid off a team.We all have bad days and sometimes,there is something going on behind the scenes and maybe,just maybe,the coach pushes a button that caused him to lash out.
I am not saying a punishment is not in order but these should be case dependant imo.
tfox
If a kid had played for me for 2 or 3 years there would be no incident like this---
If a kid had played for me for 2 or 3 years there would be no incident like this---
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
tfox
If a kid had played for me for 2 or 3 years there would be no incident like this---
You seem to have no idea what can happen in a young man's life that could inspire an incident like this to happen.
Dad just walked out on him and his mother,mother just was diagnosed with a terminal illness,heck even his girlfriend of 3 years breaking up can do things to young men at this age to make them do things that are not in their caracter so I wouldn't say it wouldn't happen.
For TRhit to say that it would never happen if the player had played for him for 2 or 3 years is just not reality. That's more like being a dictator rather then teaching kids the game and how to become men. GOD for bid that a kid make a mistake under TRhit's reign.
I think in the umpire thread, they'd probably say, "YHTBT" or "You had to be there..."
A varsity coach, who has laid down a set of rules that clearly state the cause in effect, should enforce his rules. If he tells them at the first team meeting, 'you talk back to me and you'll be gone from the program' and a kid talks back to him, he should follow through. He's coaching 17 & 18 year olds who should know better.
The freshman coach, who maybe hasn't had enough experience to know he needs a set of rules, should establish them based on an issue like this, then he should enforce them. He's coaching 14 & 15 year olds, who might not know better. They've probably come from their club or LL team where they could pretty much act how their parents taught them. Part of what freshman ball is for is to learn how to do it in HS.
If this is a club situation, the coach has to decide how much he wants to put up with, whether he'll accept having others start doing it, how quickly he can replace the player, etc.
We had a kid we hung with. Really a good kid, just got wound up during games (12U-13U). Not so much the mouth, but the throwing of helmets and getting down on himself, then pressing, doing worse and getting worse. He'd calm down quickly after running a few laps and appologize to us. We'd sit him down for a game. We always figured he'd outgrow it and he was a great kid\teammate the other 98% of the time. I heard a few weeks ago he'd been suspended a game from his HS freshman team. Apparently he hasn't figured it out, just learned some descriptive adjectives to go along with his tirades.
A varsity coach, who has laid down a set of rules that clearly state the cause in effect, should enforce his rules. If he tells them at the first team meeting, 'you talk back to me and you'll be gone from the program' and a kid talks back to him, he should follow through. He's coaching 17 & 18 year olds who should know better.
The freshman coach, who maybe hasn't had enough experience to know he needs a set of rules, should establish them based on an issue like this, then he should enforce them. He's coaching 14 & 15 year olds, who might not know better. They've probably come from their club or LL team where they could pretty much act how their parents taught them. Part of what freshman ball is for is to learn how to do it in HS.
If this is a club situation, the coach has to decide how much he wants to put up with, whether he'll accept having others start doing it, how quickly he can replace the player, etc.
We had a kid we hung with. Really a good kid, just got wound up during games (12U-13U). Not so much the mouth, but the throwing of helmets and getting down on himself, then pressing, doing worse and getting worse. He'd calm down quickly after running a few laps and appologize to us. We'd sit him down for a game. We always figured he'd outgrow it and he was a great kid\teammate the other 98% of the time. I heard a few weeks ago he'd been suspended a game from his HS freshman team. Apparently he hasn't figured it out, just learned some descriptive adjectives to go along with his tirades.
Rock-n-Fire
Open your eyes and your mind---kids who play for us know the rules and how we run things--if they have been with us they know the rules--I am been known to prowl the halls of the hotel at tournament at 2 AM in the morning-- in our organization it is reality-- in this day and age kids need rules to abide by and be given a direction--I think that they want and crave it--- entering our program they know the rules--if the don't like it do not sign on because their is only one bus driver on the trip
Rock---if your own kid talks back to you what would happen? Will let him get away with it?--If my teenage sons ever talked back to me the result would be simple--The XBOX goes---the car goes---the curfew changes---I learned as a kid that you don't mess with the authority figure--the coach is the authority figure just as the Dad is
Allow me to give you an example: two years ago we were in a tournament out of town--I am sitting with a couple of coaches and parents in the lobby and 6 of my kids are sitting watching the football game , it was the fall season. I gets to 10:15 PM I say to the kids--"I think it is time guys. I do not you dragging a s s in the morning" as a group they stood up said good note and went to their rooms:. The group I was chatting with looked me and asked how I make that happen with them---I told them that it is simple " We have understanding and respect along with our rules. And they respond that way all the time". All I got was stunned silence.
By the way , if I recall we played their team the next morning and we won
I am not a dictator at all---I am just in charge and we have respect between players and coaches---it is very simple and it works---anyone steps over the line they are asked to go home--last season I asked a kid to leave--I get home from the tournament and my wife says his dad called--expecting a load of hear we talked and after I explained my position he responded "Perhaps this is the kick in the a-s s- he needs. Thank you"
Rock
You are entitled to live in your world as you see it and I have no problem with that---BUT don't ever tell me that what I do is "just not reality" just because you don't do what I do---AND all my coaches buy into the philosophy---perhaps that is why our program works
Open your eyes and your mind---kids who play for us know the rules and how we run things--if they have been with us they know the rules--I am been known to prowl the halls of the hotel at tournament at 2 AM in the morning-- in our organization it is reality-- in this day and age kids need rules to abide by and be given a direction--I think that they want and crave it--- entering our program they know the rules--if the don't like it do not sign on because their is only one bus driver on the trip
Rock---if your own kid talks back to you what would happen? Will let him get away with it?--If my teenage sons ever talked back to me the result would be simple--The XBOX goes---the car goes---the curfew changes---I learned as a kid that you don't mess with the authority figure--the coach is the authority figure just as the Dad is
Allow me to give you an example: two years ago we were in a tournament out of town--I am sitting with a couple of coaches and parents in the lobby and 6 of my kids are sitting watching the football game , it was the fall season. I gets to 10:15 PM I say to the kids--"I think it is time guys. I do not you dragging a s s in the morning" as a group they stood up said good note and went to their rooms:. The group I was chatting with looked me and asked how I make that happen with them---I told them that it is simple " We have understanding and respect along with our rules. And they respond that way all the time". All I got was stunned silence.
By the way , if I recall we played their team the next morning and we won
I am not a dictator at all---I am just in charge and we have respect between players and coaches---it is very simple and it works---anyone steps over the line they are asked to go home--last season I asked a kid to leave--I get home from the tournament and my wife says his dad called--expecting a load of hear we talked and after I explained my position he responded "Perhaps this is the kick in the a-s s- he needs. Thank you"
Rock
You are entitled to live in your world as you see it and I have no problem with that---BUT don't ever tell me that what I do is "just not reality" just because you don't do what I do---AND all my coaches buy into the philosophy---perhaps that is why our program works
I have not run into many HS coaches who don't care about the kids. It's a pretty thankless job if you are not doing it in part because you care about the kids and want to help them be successful in life. If talking back happens all the time, is part of the kid's character and normal behavior, I think the players and parents respect that being handled swiftly and firmly. In my opinion, that player doesn't deserve much "benefit of the doubt". But for a player where it's clearly out of character for him, I don't think any coach worth his salt would cut him off without checking to see if something's wrong.
Hey, you do it your way, I do it my way. You have success on how you do it, I also have been successful in the way I do it.
Y'see, when I coach my high school team during the spring, the zero-tolerance policies hurts the kid more then the coaches ego getting damaged. Now when it comes to spring ball/high school ball, I don't care who you are, sooner or later you're gonna catch a kid on a bad day. Just because he has that bad day for whatever reason, kicking him of the team with no questions asked is the wrong way of doing it.
Now if we're talking about travel ball, a kid giving me lip is the least of my worries cause I know it won't happen. I already know the kid, I already know the parents. The kids I invite to play with me, I already know them like they were like my kids. That's why I invite them.
I thought we were talking about high school ball not travel ball.
Y'see, when I coach my high school team during the spring, the zero-tolerance policies hurts the kid more then the coaches ego getting damaged. Now when it comes to spring ball/high school ball, I don't care who you are, sooner or later you're gonna catch a kid on a bad day. Just because he has that bad day for whatever reason, kicking him of the team with no questions asked is the wrong way of doing it.
Now if we're talking about travel ball, a kid giving me lip is the least of my worries cause I know it won't happen. I already know the kid, I already know the parents. The kids I invite to play with me, I already know them like they were like my kids. That's why I invite them.
I thought we were talking about high school ball not travel ball.
Trust me , if I were coaching a HS team it would be no different
I guess we can agree to disagree on this topic. I have nothing against you. You do it your way, I do it my way. We both have had success doing it completely opposite. Go figure. 
quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
Those type of kids stop being those type of kids when they realize those type of kids will not be allowed to be those type of kids.
Or they get kicked off the team and realize that those type of kids are not allowed to be those type of kids so they they stop being those type of kids so they can be on the team.
By biggest concern in a situation like this would be to make sure I got this kid to safety before my upper class guys got to him. You dont mess with my boys coach. They learned that from their coach. No one is going to disrespect my players without dealing with me first.
AMEN...especially to that last statement.
Interesting thread particularly in regards to respect.
Have seen both sides of the coin...have seen both work and both fail based on the particular coaching staff.
Some were too lax and some too insulting to players for the program to succeed.
If a player mouth off to the coach in front of the team, that player will suffer and in all likelihood be gone. If that player gets in to it with the coach behind closed doors privately, he has a chance to survive if he listens along with mouthing off. That was basically the law the best coaches I played for laid down. The bottom line was these coaches stressed an open door type policy with the players. More importantly, they lived up to it and would listen to the players. Usually nothing changed but the players knew they could talk to the coach.
My way or the highway often is used by coaches
that aren't that strong/knowledgeable. The problem really magnifies when players start playing solely to make a coach happy and lose sight of why they play the game.
The really good coaches understand they get the most out of a team when they realize the kids don't care how much the coach knows...they just want to know the coach cares. If the kid/team believes in the coach and his motives, most will run through a brick wall for the coach. By the same token, kids/teams that doubt a coach's sincerity rarely excel or reach their potential.
Sounds a bit silly until you think about it and your favorite teams and players you coached. I'll bet money often they weren't your most talented teams.
Being the coach pretty much automatically gives you the basic respect from players. Devotion to the coach and the program demands respect be given both ways. The lack of common respect is what I see in way too many young HS coaches that played in the "me first" late 80's/90's. Most will grow out of their ego problems but will waste some years and talented players in the process.JMHO.
Have seen both sides of the coin...have seen both work and both fail based on the particular coaching staff.
Some were too lax and some too insulting to players for the program to succeed.
If a player mouth off to the coach in front of the team, that player will suffer and in all likelihood be gone. If that player gets in to it with the coach behind closed doors privately, he has a chance to survive if he listens along with mouthing off. That was basically the law the best coaches I played for laid down. The bottom line was these coaches stressed an open door type policy with the players. More importantly, they lived up to it and would listen to the players. Usually nothing changed but the players knew they could talk to the coach.
My way or the highway often is used by coaches
that aren't that strong/knowledgeable. The problem really magnifies when players start playing solely to make a coach happy and lose sight of why they play the game.
The really good coaches understand they get the most out of a team when they realize the kids don't care how much the coach knows...they just want to know the coach cares. If the kid/team believes in the coach and his motives, most will run through a brick wall for the coach. By the same token, kids/teams that doubt a coach's sincerity rarely excel or reach their potential.
Sounds a bit silly until you think about it and your favorite teams and players you coached. I'll bet money often they weren't your most talented teams.
Being the coach pretty much automatically gives you the basic respect from players. Devotion to the coach and the program demands respect be given both ways. The lack of common respect is what I see in way too many young HS coaches that played in the "me first" late 80's/90's. Most will grow out of their ego problems but will waste some years and talented players in the process.JMHO.
The only handling it accordingly I have is, "don't the the dugout door hit you in the butt." I've only had three players do it once. They were yanked from the lineup. I told them to take a walk to the foul pole. On the way back they had the choice of returning to the dugout and acting appropriately or going home. I've never experienced a second infraction.quote:Do you have players who often talk back to you? What do you do about this? Do you set a standard saying you will not put up with it, and if it happens you handle it accordingly?
Son played on a team with a back talking player and not only was the player universally disliked by all the other players and assistant coaches, Son also lost respect for the head coach for letting it go on.
He told me so.
He told me so.
quote:Originally posted by cball:
Son played on a team with a back talking player and not only was the player universally disliked by all the other players and assistant coaches, Son also lost respect for the head coach for letting it go on.
He told me so.
I agree that it should NEVER be allowed to happen over and over.
But,dismissal from the team for a single infraction is just a bit overbearing imho.
We have all said things we wish we could have taken back.
tfox
Overbearing my butt---there is no way disrespect of a coach happens in the dugout and in front of the other players--you cut the head off the snake and it dies
The kids today, the majority of them, have no respect---some one has to teach them the costs of that attitude
Overbearing my butt---there is no way disrespect of a coach happens in the dugout and in front of the other players--you cut the head off the snake and it dies
The kids today, the majority of them, have no respect---some one has to teach them the costs of that attitude
If the kids are old enough to understand rules, they are old enough to understand the consequences of breaking them.quote:dismissal from the team for a single infraction is just a bit overbearing imho.
Having a young man come to you behind closed doors and letting it go I have no problem with at all. As long as its not something that happens on a routine basis. I respect a young man that comes to you and says "Coach can we talk today?" He can say whatever he wants to say and we can air in out in private away from the team. But to talk back in front of the team or in front of the public thats just not acceptable , period. He is gone and he knows he is gone.
I have coached for many years. I have never had a player that made our team talk back to me. Never. I have had guys meet with me in private and we have aired it out. Its left right there. We move on. I never talked back to my dad or anyother elder or person of authority when I knew they were in a posistion to lose respect from my actions. If I did I already knew what the consequences for those actions would be.
Look at it this way if your constantly having to deal with problems like this YOU are the problem. The players dont respect you. Why? Deal with it appropriately the first time and you dont have to worry about a second time.
I have coached for many years. I have never had a player that made our team talk back to me. Never. I have had guys meet with me in private and we have aired it out. Its left right there. We move on. I never talked back to my dad or anyother elder or person of authority when I knew they were in a posistion to lose respect from my actions. If I did I already knew what the consequences for those actions would be.
Look at it this way if your constantly having to deal with problems like this YOU are the problem. The players dont respect you. Why? Deal with it appropriately the first time and you dont have to worry about a second time.
If a player talks back you HAVE to do something right then and it has to be severe. If you want to toss them or something else that is your call but you have to do something and do it now. Sporting teams are not democracies nor are they places where the indians run the show over the chief. The coach IS the final power in that setting. Each time a kid talks back or has something to say and it's not addressed then that group of freshmen who are standing there watching will think it's ok and they will do it when they are older. Now you got an endless cycle of disrespect brewing and it gets worse because kids will push the boundaries.
I agree that if a kid comes to me and wants to talk privately in an office I will listen and he can say ALMOST anything. I had a kid one time who was the ultimate team player and a great role model. He came to me and we had a talk and it ended up we were yelling at each other at the top of our lungs and we were both really ticked. Didn't do anything to him because mainly we were agreeing that our team was stinking at the time. We were just getting it off our chests the frustrations we were feeling and more times than not that is what the good players are feeling IF they say something. Let the good kids have a chance to say something to let them get something off their chest in private.
The bad players are the ones who need to be tossed because it's not about getting rid of frustrations. They are about getting attention or showing up the coach or whatever. They are cancers and need to be gone. These are the ones you need to keep a thumb on. The reason you need to can them is because they will NOT ever change. You can bet your last dollar that is how they talk at home to their parents. If that is how they treat their parents they will not listen to you.
I will say that one thing you don't want to do is yell at them as a punishment. That actually feeds the behavior because they are smarting off to gain attention and you yelling at them gives them that attention. If you run them until they trip over their tongue that's fine because you are putting the choice back on them - either do the running or quit. But if you go that route and they don't learn it's now your fault as a coach. You have to do something and it has to be severe.
Our job is to teach them how to catch a groundball and hit a curve but another part of our job is to teach them to control their emotions and actions. You can say it's a bad day all you want but ask yourself this question - if you went into work and smarted off how would it affect you? If your boss let's it go what will your co workers think of your boss now?
There is nothing different. To lay it on the excuse "they are young and it happens" is garbage because it will keep happening until they are old and was never taught that behavior is wrong.
You let it go then you are killing your authority as a coach.
I agree that if a kid comes to me and wants to talk privately in an office I will listen and he can say ALMOST anything. I had a kid one time who was the ultimate team player and a great role model. He came to me and we had a talk and it ended up we were yelling at each other at the top of our lungs and we were both really ticked. Didn't do anything to him because mainly we were agreeing that our team was stinking at the time. We were just getting it off our chests the frustrations we were feeling and more times than not that is what the good players are feeling IF they say something. Let the good kids have a chance to say something to let them get something off their chest in private.
The bad players are the ones who need to be tossed because it's not about getting rid of frustrations. They are about getting attention or showing up the coach or whatever. They are cancers and need to be gone. These are the ones you need to keep a thumb on. The reason you need to can them is because they will NOT ever change. You can bet your last dollar that is how they talk at home to their parents. If that is how they treat their parents they will not listen to you.
I will say that one thing you don't want to do is yell at them as a punishment. That actually feeds the behavior because they are smarting off to gain attention and you yelling at them gives them that attention. If you run them until they trip over their tongue that's fine because you are putting the choice back on them - either do the running or quit. But if you go that route and they don't learn it's now your fault as a coach. You have to do something and it has to be severe.
Our job is to teach them how to catch a groundball and hit a curve but another part of our job is to teach them to control their emotions and actions. You can say it's a bad day all you want but ask yourself this question - if you went into work and smarted off how would it affect you? If your boss let's it go what will your co workers think of your boss now?
There is nothing different. To lay it on the excuse "they are young and it happens" is garbage because it will keep happening until they are old and was never taught that behavior is wrong.
You let it go then you are killing your authority as a coach.
I completely agree something has to be done and done swiftly.Suspensions are in order and even dismissal but to make blanket statements that ANY kid that talks back is gone imo just isn't being fair or truthful.
I still say it is a case by case basis.What was said,what was the mental state of the player.Were you as a coach at fault.Yes,something needs to be done in all these cases but dismissal isn't always the answer.If you dismiss a player for the wrong reasons,you can bet you will lose the team at that point as well.
In no way would I condone a player talking back to a coach but I also understand we are human with human emotions as well as the rigors of daily life and death.
I have seen people talk back to their bosses and a few days to think about it usually gets the message across if that person is acting out of character.
I still say it is a case by case basis.What was said,what was the mental state of the player.Were you as a coach at fault.Yes,something needs to be done in all these cases but dismissal isn't always the answer.If you dismiss a player for the wrong reasons,you can bet you will lose the team at that point as well.
In no way would I condone a player talking back to a coach but I also understand we are human with human emotions as well as the rigors of daily life and death.
I have seen people talk back to their bosses and a few days to think about it usually gets the message across if that person is acting out of character.
As a parent I've seen first hand what happens with a smart mouthed kid is allowed to talk back to coaches. It is insidious and most definitely affects the entire squad. The kids who are not disrespectful and work hard will also lose respect for the coach. It's not just the talk back, the attitude will manifest itself not only during practice, but during game time as well. Then the coach loses the umpires and other coaches. Not to mention, parents lose respect for the coach.
Two weeks ago an ace was thrown off a team for pushing his head coach. A bit extreme, but there you have it.
IMO, the young man with the extreme issues should be counseled, and team rules not changed mid season. Make new rules clear, with any difficulty off the field to be supported appropriately.
Two weeks ago an ace was thrown off a team for pushing his head coach. A bit extreme, but there you have it.
IMO, the young man with the extreme issues should be counseled, and team rules not changed mid season. Make new rules clear, with any difficulty off the field to be supported appropriately.
All of this brings up another question....you just kick a kid off the team for mouthing off/being disrespectful to a coach in front of the team. Pretty much the consensus of what everyone has said.
Question....is there any chance the kid can re-join the team and if so, what must he do/or what penalties must he face? What if you find out the coach pretty much egged the kid on and over the edge...how do we handle that (don't laugh; it's a problem at a couple HS in our area; head coaches are fine but asst coaches have had some issues). Or are all dismissals permanent or just for that season?
Just curious about opinions.
Question....is there any chance the kid can re-join the team and if so, what must he do/or what penalties must he face? What if you find out the coach pretty much egged the kid on and over the edge...how do we handle that (don't laugh; it's a problem at a couple HS in our area; head coaches are fine but asst coaches have had some issues). Or are all dismissals permanent or just for that season?
Just curious about opinions.
S. Abrams
Where I come from the coach is the Boss---you give him lip and even if the coach , as you "egged him on" the coach can do as he wishes.
The Coach rules and that is it
Where I come from the coach is the Boss---you give him lip and even if the coach , as you "egged him on" the coach can do as he wishes.
The Coach rules and that is it
TRhit,
Agreed, the head coach is boss. His job, his authority....and his responsibilty.
What if he finds out the asst coach was also part of the problem and the asst coach basically pushed the kid to the point the kid stood up for himself and shot his mouth off to the asst coach? How should that be handled is really the question I had in mind.
What is the "line in the sand"? Or are coaches given carte blanche for anything/everything that happens on their watch?
In recent years I have heard some stuff come out of coaches' mouths that NEVER would have been said to a player on any team I played on....then again, on one team we had 2 players that could have easily whipped any baseball coach alive ( USMC Force Recon; other just the meanest/toughest *** I've ever met).
Agreed, the head coach is boss. His job, his authority....and his responsibilty.
What if he finds out the asst coach was also part of the problem and the asst coach basically pushed the kid to the point the kid stood up for himself and shot his mouth off to the asst coach? How should that be handled is really the question I had in mind.
What is the "line in the sand"? Or are coaches given carte blanche for anything/everything that happens on their watch?
In recent years I have heard some stuff come out of coaches' mouths that NEVER would have been said to a player on any team I played on....then again, on one team we had 2 players that could have easily whipped any baseball coach alive ( USMC Force Recon; other just the meanest/toughest *** I've ever met).
Our situation is a bit different in that we are a travel team not a HS team
My coaches are young and still learning---I have been known to blast them openly and I don't even sit in the dugout---I was so irate one nite I would not even go to dinner with them---I told them that it would be bedlam if we sat at the same table---they brought my dinner back to the hotel--I had cooled down and we discussed the days events
We also have been known to have many late nite meetings going over what happened during the day--they can only learn from their mistakes and on the plus side they have a great relationship with the players
BUT no player speaks back to them or I---in private is one thing--but not in front of the team
I have a leash but it is very short---perhaps that is why we get the players we want and we have the success we have at days end
Like I have said before "different srokes for different folks"
As for the coaches stirring the pot---they do that and they are gone--it has taken us a long time to find the coaches we want and we are now all on the same page
Hope this helps you all
My coaches are young and still learning---I have been known to blast them openly and I don't even sit in the dugout---I was so irate one nite I would not even go to dinner with them---I told them that it would be bedlam if we sat at the same table---they brought my dinner back to the hotel--I had cooled down and we discussed the days events
We also have been known to have many late nite meetings going over what happened during the day--they can only learn from their mistakes and on the plus side they have a great relationship with the players
BUT no player speaks back to them or I---in private is one thing--but not in front of the team
I have a leash but it is very short---perhaps that is why we get the players we want and we have the success we have at days end
Like I have said before "different srokes for different folks"
As for the coaches stirring the pot---they do that and they are gone--it has taken us a long time to find the coaches we want and we are now all on the same page
Hope this helps you all
A superior verbally beating up one of his coaches in front of that coach's team is every bit as bad as a player talking back to his coach. Respect goes both directions. The rule of praise in public, criticize in private goes for down the chain of command every bit as much as up the chain of command.
quote:I think in the umpire thread, they'd probably say, "YHTBT" or "You had to be there..."
I don't disagree that a coach needs to handle this but it definitely falls under the YHTBT to issue any type of judgement on any specific infraction.
Our HC is a tough old guy who, in my mind, puts up with more than he should...but he teaches and also coaches at a much 'rougher' school than ours. He's told me that our kids are 'easy' compared to what he deals with every day. It's all relative...
After dealing with gang members all day, having a kid 'talk back' (whatever that entails) is pretty trivial stuff.
Of course I've seen him when a kid has shown disrespect....If I was the kid, I'd rather be kicked off the team....
OK...we've established kids mouthing off to a coach in front of the team are gone; probably the same or close for asst. coaches that stir the pot creating issues a head coach doesn't need.
Still leaves the question...is there any way/chance the kid can get back on the time for the same season? Can he ever come back? If so, what penalties/etc. will he have to suffer prior to re-joining the team? If taken back after serving pennance, would the player have a chance to become a starter? HS scenario.
Still leaves the question...is there any way/chance the kid can get back on the time for the same season? Can he ever come back? If so, what penalties/etc. will he have to suffer prior to re-joining the team? If taken back after serving pennance, would the player have a chance to become a starter? HS scenario.
quote:Still leaves the question...is there any way/chance the kid can get back on the time for the same season? Can he ever come back? If so, what penalties/etc. will he have to suffer prior to re-joining the team? If taken back after serving pennance, would the player have a chance to become a starter? HS scenario.
To answer your questions
1. Come back that season - Never. They messed up severly enough they need to be removed. I might suspend a kid for something not as severe but he's going to face extra running or something.
2. Can he come back the next season - Yes as long as he has displayed good behavior, attitude, grades, no trouble with the school etc... the whole school year. When I dismiss a kid from the team I tell them they are more than welcome to try out the next year and this incident will not be held against them. BUT if they get into trouble the next school year, cause teachers trouble, have bad grades etc... then they will be cut at the end of tryouts. If they learn from their mistake then they have earned another chance but if they are still a troublemaker then they probably not changing.
3. Have a chance to start - Once again yes because I will not hold it against them if they have learned and been punished.
I don't see the point in being vindicative over things if someone has learned and grown from the experience. That's what we are here for. Kicking a kid off the team is a last resort. But if you it then you need to let them have a chance to learn from it.
I agree with Tr so much on this. People, understand this. When a season starts you set rules and standards. Some leagues set them for you and some school districts can tie a coaches hands. But when you set those rules, you'd better be prepared to stand by them or you will never have the full respect of all of your players.
Tr has been doing this for long enough, that when a young man comes to his program, he already understands what he's coming into. The reputation of the program proceeds itself. A player with an attitude will probably not be invited into that program and if one that does play for it, feels he must challenge the authority of the program, he should be shown the rules and the Door. JMO
Tr has been doing this for long enough, that when a young man comes to his program, he already understands what he's coming into. The reputation of the program proceeds itself. A player with an attitude will probably not be invited into that program and if one that does play for it, feels he must challenge the authority of the program, he should be shown the rules and the Door. JMO
