Baseball

While I understand your need to vent, I feel your advice is horrible.

quote:

And to all of you guru's that get a bit of advice from a person who has made baseball their profession......Listen more, ask questions and advise less.

Being in a profession for a long period of time means you are experienced. Some are experienced at excelling, some are experienced at failing, most are experienced at mediocrity.

I have been a professional fisherman for a few decades now. I have gotten some very helpful, even great advice and teachings from guys who are nothing more than weekend warriors at the sport. They never made a dime in fishing, but are smart, good at their craft, students of the sport, stay educated in the latest thinking and techniques, and have something to offer.

Does that mean they have the complete, well rounded experience of a top pro? Of course not, but it doesn't mean that they might not know something about or do something better than that pro.

Never discount a persons opinion because their experience doesn't match yours.

Having been a speaker, writer, TV and Radio host, and educator in the fishing biz...one thing that usually happens, is the cream rises to the top. People figure out who is doling out the good stuff and who's a windbag. Most guru's self proclaim to an extent. Most of the really good ones have others doing it also. These things tend to sort themselves out over time.

Grady Little has been in baseball a long time and I wouldn't trust his advice on how long to keep a starting pitcher in the game.

While many members of this site have varying degrees of knowledge, I don't think anyone claims to be the grand pubah. This site is not about the "one-n-only" way to proceed, it is about people learning about the various paths other people have taken, and their trials and tribulations.

While experts may say there is a "golden rule", you can bet there is an agenda they have behind that rule. For the most part we are common people, who have no agendas except wanting the best for our kids. Many times those experts look at kids as numbers who pass through their "processes", and then advertise the successes, and circular file those that did not work out. I like to think that on the HSBBW those kids experiences are shared by parents, and the reader can pick-n-choose their preferences, and potential path. Now tell me, would you rather have a an "expert" who will dictate his ideas and processes for your kid, or, would you rather have a variety of parents explaining their experiences?

RZ,

I bet you are an expert on the Madison Mallards. I hear they pull quite a crowd each summer. Would you recommend that team as a good summer program if it became available to someone?

The Mallards in many minds are the best college summer show around with 5-7k a game in attendance. As my son said it was a baseball experience he will never forget. Drop a pm if it is an option and we can chat on the phone as I have many "feathered friends".

Thanks, I'll take you up on it if the opportunity presents itself.

Being a Mallard would be great as long as Dick Cheney isn't in town.

I agree with CPLZ on this one.

LOW337 - even if there is individual advice out there that may be questionable, the collective intelligence of the board is off the charts. In one scenario and depending on the advice that is asked, you might have a 49 year old grandmother in Indiana who has the exact answer for the particular question asked. In another case, maybe a pro scout or other professional like yourself jumps in to save the day. In still yet another case, a scientist on the west coast develops and shares more knowledge about NCAA rules than any other member on our site. In yet another case, a lawyer in California graciously shares his son's D3 college experiences and then his quest into professional baseball which defies the odds. In my own personal case, I try and share hope, and never giving up, and encouragement. There are millions of ways to uniquely contribute. Each piece adding to the collective whole.

Individually, we are all ordinary. Collectively, we are extraordinary and that is something not to vent about but to be thankful for

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:

Never discount a persons opinion because their experience doesn't match yours.

Even the NMFS?

quote:

Originally posted by igball:
Thanks, I'll take you up on it if the opportunity presents itself.

Being a Mallard would be great as long as Dick Cheney isn't in town.

or Bobby Knight

quote:

But please be careful of the advice you seek when it comes to actually playing the game. And be careful about advising on a subject you have limited knowledge of.

Be careful with showcase/camp/indoor instructional facilities/self proclaimed guru's.....While some may be above board and give some good advice.......keep in mind they run a business....they have to make money to stay in business......

I believe by the time a thread runs it's course, in most cases there is adequate information to make an educated evaluation on what has been provided.

As far as hitting goes you can place all the gurus of the various disciples in a steel cage and the debate will never end. It ultimately comes down to "What works for me/my son?"

Even at the minor league level friend's sons have complained as they move from level to level or work with roving instructors, they often contradict each other.

When it comes to showcase teams, training facilities and individual instructors they have a history and references regardless of what one person may state about them on a board.

CPLZ outstanding post.

Interesting topic

I am not an expert on baseball or anything else for that matter. But what I have learned is that you can never quit learning. My advice to my boys was to take in everything that you were being taught. Try it. Take what you can learn and use it, be polite about the rest.

I find it interesting that so many people are "experts" at this game. I find that every player is different. Every player has a little different swing a little different arm angle a little different approach. To say that there is one right way and one wrong way to do anything in the game of baseball is illogical. As you watch a major league game you see a lot of different ways to swing and throw. If it works for you just find ways to improve it.

I was recently at a showcase and was befuddled by the "cookie cutter" approach to pitching. There were 40-50 kids who all looked the same. Same mechanics, same arm slot. It struck me as odd. I will also say that the two or three who were different, had a different arm angle or mechanics were the only ones with any velo and movement. I think there are a lot of great people out there teaching the game but it is not a "one size fits all" world.

Caveat emptor

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I agree with CPLZ on this one.

LOW337 - even if there is individual advice out there that may be questionable, the collective intelligence of the board is off the charts. In one scenario and depending on the advice that is asked, you might have a 49 year old grandmother in Indiana who has the exact answer for the particular question asked. In another case, maybe a pro scout or other professional like yourself jumps in to save the day. In still yet another case, a scientist on the west coast develops and shares more knowledge about NCAA rules than any other member on our site. In yet another case, a lawyer in California graciously shares his son's D3 college experiences and then his quest into professional baseball which defies the odds. In my own personal case, I try and share hope, and never giving up, and encouragement. There are millions of ways to uniquely contribute. Each piece adding to the collective whole.

Individually, we are all ordinary. Collectively, we are extraordinary and that is something not to vent about but to be thankful for

I agree CD and "Resistance is Futile"

quote:

Originally posted by LOW337:
A letter to some:

I enjoy coming here and reading posts.

In most cases (NOT ALL) what is posted, especially when it comes to hitting and pitching is so far out in left field it makes it almost impossible to comment on.

I work in baseball for a living.
So when I see some of the comments and attempts at teaching and using terminology.....wow....sometimes I just step back and say....wow!!!

I don't know it all....not even close......I'm always learning about this game.......

But how has my 24 yrs of doing nothing but baseball at the college level and above made me an authority on YOUR JOB? It hasn't.

Just like your 10 yrs (500 games) of sitting in the stands doesn't make you an authority on the game that taught me for the past 24 yrs (over 2,000 games IN THE DUGOUT COLLEGE LEVEL AND ABOVE)

There are plenty of professional baseball people who come here and give plenty of sound advice!! There are many parents and HS/College Coaches on here who give solid advice to those about to experience college and the recruiting process!! There are many parents and professionals on here who give solid advice on how to handle the draft and becoming a professional!!!

But please be careful of the advice you seek when it comes to actually playing the game. And be careful about advising on a subject you have limited knowledge of.

Be careful with showcase/camp/indoor instructional facilities/self proclaimed guru's.....While some may be above board and give some good advice.......keep in mind they run a business....they have to make money to stay in business......

And to all of you guru's that get a bit of advice from a person who has made baseball their profession......Listen more, ask questions and advise less.

Sorry....I had to vent a little.

All I am saying is to be careful of the advice you receive and from whom you receive it.

There is plenty of solid advice given here. I never denied that.

But there is also very bad info given so be careful.

I'd like to point out that this thread actually served a great purpose...

We found out that CLPZ is an accomplished Professional Fisherman. That is really cool, and I think kind of interesting.

Other than that, OP probably just wasted a good 3-5 minutes of his life frustrating over one of the most useless endeavors of all time: Challenging the validity of advice provided on an anonymous, public domain web-site. It's like buying wine at 7-11, and then wondering why it doesn't taste very good.

No reflection on the bright folks CD was talking about.

I will also state this forum has been a great help in helping people out. I find more helpful advice and links to advice from this site than anywhere else! In the past, on the pitching forum, I have been in both discussion and debate over mechanics and other issues as well. Whereas we may always not agree, at least someone isn't trying to sell their idea as the "only" way to do something.

Personally, I am somewhat skepticle of all the self proclaimed gurus who have had 20+ years of experience in a field like "pitching". I shielded my own son from all of the different "professional opinions" up until just a few months ago and instead came to places like this forum and other free forums to fine tune sons mechanics. Guess what?

The "professional opinions" of sons mechanics at camp were "great arm side movement", "perfect offspeed velocity" and "he will be a great pitcher someday" (Professionally). The thing i ask myself is this-

If I can gain insight from this site and apply it to son, are "professional opinions" everything they are cracked up to be? I am not saying professional opinions are bad or anything, I am just saying that the advice offered here collectively speaking is about as real to the truth or better than any paid professional! The general consensus of opinions here on this forum ,weighed correctly, is priceless information- invaluable to gaining entrance into post High School and professional play.

Usually, the best advice is that given freely by those who have traveled the same road noting all the pitfalls along the way and warning others.

quote:

Originally posted by wraggArm:
We found out that CLPZ is an accomplished Professional Fisherman. That is really cool, and I think kind of interesting.

Another little known fact is that CPLZ drops the most lobster pots of any boat on the Great Lakes

Forget find Waldo - find CPLZ.

14th person to the northwest of the spot.

BTW, IMO anyone is welcome to discount any advice I give because it is JMO and worth what you paid for it or less.

I think most of the people who read this site have figured out that they have to pick and choose what to believe for themselves.

Limbo,

I'm really glad things seem to be looking up for you and mostly, your son. Sometimes in the heat of the moment things do look hopeless and gloomy. But after a while when the smoke clears out things do have a way of working themselves out. I'm an eteranl optimist so I may be biased...lol.

Nevertheless, if you still need any advise about Georgia JUCO's or schools in general here in Georgia send me a PM. I'd be glad to extend whatever knowledge I have about them to you.

YGD

Disclaimer: I have no job and/or business that pertains to the aforementioned knowledge I may be passing on to you so be forewarned that my advise is worth exactly .02 cents. But I'll give to you for free if you're willing to take the discount.

I don't necessarily agree nor disagree with the OP. It seems to me like that was a shot a someone specific but I will say this. The most knowledgeable football coach I have ever personally met, never coached higher than 10 year old's and when I was in collage the DB coach honestly knew nothing about the sport yet had been coaching at the collage level for 30 years. Experience doesn't always = knowledge and knowledge doesn't always = correct information.

as my grandad used to say,
"you can believe what you want"


now that's alway's helpful.

BOF, that's easy, CPLZ is the smart one inside the little shed!

Interesting discussion ... Whether here or elsewhere, whenever a discussion turns to the "experience" of the participants, I am transported back to a day many years ago when I was sitting in an interview with a man who would ultimately have a profound impact on my career & life.

I was 25, had been in the working world for about 4 years, with a resume that showed 2 relatively entry-level sales positions and my college graduation date. When I arrived for this interview, for a job I wanted very badly, my to be mentor welcomed me into his office, invited me to take a seat, then spent what felt like an eternity looking over my short resume.

After a few minutes, he looked me in the eye and asked; "So tell me, how much experience do you have?" I answered with what seemed the logical answer; "I have been in sales for about 4 years now." To which my interrogator replied; "I can see that from your resume, my question is how much experience do you have?"

I suspect the beads of sweat and deer-in-the-headlights look told him that I was sinking fast when he threw me this life preserver; "You see, there is a difference between a man with 10 years experience, and a man with 1 year's experience 10 times over. My question to you is how much experience do you have?"

After a moment, I looked him dead in the eye and replied; "Today, I would say I have 1 1/2 years experience 2 times over, and I'm on my third lap around the track." That answer essentially got me a job.

It was working for this mentor where I learned the very valuable lesson that "experience" is measured in the ability to effectively apply knowledge to a situation; not in time. Within a year, I had 5 years of professional selling experience. Two years later, I was on a par with the pro's who had been in the business for 10-15 years. Due in large part to my mentor(s) teaching me to learn from my own experiences, as well as those of others.

I have carried this lesson into every venture I have ever undertaken, from business to baseball. Today, I try to teach my son there are two types of "experience" from which he can learn: personal experiences, and other's experiences. Many times, learning lessons from other's experiences can accelerate the learning process, and save you precious time, money, and pain.

As another mentor of mine always liked to say: "Experience is the toughest teacher, because she gives you the test first, and teaches the lesson later."

Thanks for indulging me. This thread took me back again to that painful but educational interview. Taking a step back from the incredibly obvious to the merely obvious, I thank you all for sharing your experiences; for you have saved me much time, and many expensive lessons.

And if I am ever one who comes across as if I have all the answers, rest assured that I am regularly reminded -- in the words of Montgomery Gentry -- of how much I've learned since back when I knew it all.

Keep the sage advice coming ... those of us still navigating the trail need to accumulate all the experience we can.

I first came across this site when my son was playing 12u. My son is a junior starting varsity for the second year. Having recently been to PG's Session 3, talking to several parents and just talking to parents over the past few years, this site is still a secret to many. Every experience my son is going through has been described by someone on this site, from the showcases to the scouts sheets, to politics, it has all been covered. As an earlier poster said, you get enough information to make an informed decision or at least have some knowledge of what to expect. If someone is preaching bull, someone else will call them out. I am grateful that I found this site.

Someone once told me "If you want to know if a guy is full of it in this game just listen to him talk about the game. If he acts like he knows it all. If he refuses to try other ways to approach the game. If he thinks he knows it all. He dont know squat. Once you think you know it all you are incapable of learning anything."

This man has won more games at the hs level than any coach in NC hs baseball history. And he has won numerous state championships. He has had numerous players go on to play at the college level. And when you meet him he is the most humble person you will ever meet. He listens , he asks you questions and he is always looking for advice.

I have been around the game a long time. And I still know I have a lot to learn. I am always trying to learn more. I found this site by total accident. I read for several months before I ever posted. I have taken away from this site much more than I have ever given. I suspect that will always be the case. I have learned more from the parents on this site of players than I have learned from the coaches on this site. No offense to the coaches because there are some great guys on this site.

Treat every kid like he is your own because he is when you coach him. Take responsibility for his baseball because if your his coach you are. Put yourself in the parents shoes and understand that that kid could very well be your son. Always care more about the player as a person than what that player can bring to the table on game day. Each player is unique and special. And everyone of them deserves the very best you can offer. And never expect a player to give anymore to the program or the team than you yourself are willing to give back to them and the program.

I believe that everyone has something to offer on this site. I put no higher value on a so called experts opinion on a topic than I do a dad or mom who is talking about their sons experience in the game. They all hold great value to me. I want to share and I want to learn. Because I think I have some things to share and I know I have a lot to learn.

Great post Coach May!

Low333:

It's called discernment

Mmmmmm, this wine I just bought at 7-11 is delicious.

quote:

No reflection on the bright folks CD was talking about.

Thats me Right?

To me this site has been about exchanging experiences and opinions with those who know more and with us who have been fortunate enough to have discovered this game, but maybe don't know that much.

You have to be smart enough to know what to take and what not, but its all here. The true value to this site has nothing to do with the mechanics of playing the game.

I used to know what discernment was but I no longer have the acumen since I started drinking that fine tasting wine from 7-11.

Actually, if you take out the condescending tone LOW is just saying to take things with a grain of salt and not believe everything you read. We all should be careful of giving advice, or at least qualify the advice. I know I get very passionate at times when debating a subject even though I'm just putting forth my opinion and could certainly be wrong. It wasn't what he said, it was how he said it.

quote:

Originally posted by southpaw_dad:

As another mentor of mine always liked to say: "Experience is the toughest teacher, because she gives you the test first, and teaches the lesson later."

"...and the MD20-20 at 7-11 will teach you the toughest lesson of all, Gwasshappar"

quote:

Originally posted by catfish342:
Mmmmmm, this wine I just bought at 7-11 is delicious.

The Mobil Mart on the way to Sebago Lake in Maine has a small, but very good wine selection.

So did Grasshopper learn about "packaged nuts" at the Shaolin temple or at 7-11?

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
So did Grasshopper learn about "packaged nuts" at the Shaolin temple or at 7-11?

Later in life, Grasshopper expanded his knowledge of "packaged nuts", after spending copious amounts of time in the hitting forum of the HSBBW.

This pretty much sums up the hitting forum:

WraggArm: I've read quite a few posts on this website: I do believe you've made the first reference to Mad Dog 20-20... Congrats my man.
(Man I need to hit some fungos and throw some BP or I'm going to go nuts......)

Biggerpapi , that was funny !