Baseball Options

Fungo

I do not agree with your "myth" statement !

Totally agree Fungo. I don't think a standard bell curve applies for showcases (low number of bad players, large number of average players and low number of great players). I think when you go to a showcase you will see quite a few bad players, a large group of average players and a very small number of great players - kind of like a roller coaster in that you have a steady climb then a dramatic drop.

If you are good you stand out from everyone else. Baseball people know you are good as compared to everyone else.

I have been to showcases / MLB tryout camps where there were "players" who were so bad I was afraid they would get hurt being out there. Then it got better in smaller increments until you reached the group who you thought this guy might help you or you would like to see this guy again to see if he can produce again. Then the one guy steps up and everyone knows this guy is legit. He does everything better - runs faster, throws harder / farther, hits ball harder / farther, more pitching velocity etc...

My point being is the stand out guy just needs to get seen by a few people and the momentum has started for this guy to be seen by many people. But you take a regular guy he needs to get out there more often and perform at a higher level consistently in front of the right people to have a chance. Since there are more of these type of players the chances of getting a college spot is very difficult.

When I took over the team I had last 10 years ago they weren't that good overall but we had some guys who could play a little. They didn't really know about how to get the exposure for themselves by going to showcases. They thought colleges came out and find you. I tried to convince them to get out there in doing these things and they didn't. So I started scheduling teams who had great players.

The college / pro scouts were going to be there to watch the guy from the other school. It gave my kids a chance to be seen. It worked because there was some interest generated and my guys liked performing in front of those people. Next thing you know they started going to showcases and camps.

That talent pool got deeper and the chances got fewer.

TRHit, If there is only one roster spot available and 5 players are vying for it are there 5 options available or one option? I say there is only ONE option available. The most talented player has that option. If he chooses not to select that option then that option is passed down to the next talented player and so forth.

How do you see it?

As always, strong points fungo.

One thing I might say to counter is that while the number of spots availible haven’t changed, the advent of showcases/national tournaments have grated more opportunities for players to be seen by schools that traditionally haven't been a realistic option.

If I look at my small part of the country, it seems that over the last two or three years NJ has had quite a few players that are getting opportunities to play in the traditional power conferences. I have no doubt that NJ has always had quality players however before many of the teams started playing a national schedule the players had little chance of getting on these power conference teams radar. Teams like UNC, LSU, Tulane, Florida, Vandy, Virginia, USC and others are usually not found running around watching local High School or Legion games in my neck of the woods.

I would say the options are much better now than in years past.

Fungo- That's why you never compare yourself to anybody else. Be the best you can be. That's all you can control.

That said, here's my question- If a talented tree falls in the wood and nobody there........

Fungo- You have a PM

Fungo

You are saying that the general consensus is that there are more options for players.

I am saying that that is not the general consensus---at least in my recent experience

True, there are only so many roster spots. In a perfect world the most talented players are filling all those spots. Many colleges have figured out how to do that. Others haven't!

There are many ways to secure opportunity. It can even happen accidently. If ten players were successful at getting one of those roster spots and one player succeeded using his method and nine players succeeded using a different method... Which method would you recommend?

Of course, showcases and high level summer baseball don't increase the number of roster spots. They just have a bearing on who is getting those roster spots. It's always possible to get one without doing much of anything. But it increases your options the other way.

IMO, Options are when a player like jerseydad's son and others are being recruited by many of the nation's top college programs, rather than just the schools around where he lives. More people that want you... equals more options and in some cases much better offers. Same goes for professional baseball, the more clubs that see a free agent and think he is talented, the more possibilities or options he is going to have. (ie.CC Sabathia)... I know that is a bad example. How about we use some young kid from Panama, instead?

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
...but I believe every teammate of my son received the same amount of exposure as he did (if they were on the field).

That would only be true if the person was paying attention when people other than the blue chipper were involved.

A persons nature when they come to see someone/something is to focus on the task at hand. That would mean that other players would not recieve the same amount of exposure as the blue chipper. They would recieve varying degrees of exposure, from nearly the same to very little, depending on the individual and even what kind of day that individual was having.

As coach2709 said, it gives the other players a chance to be seen...but only a chance.

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ArmyDAD,

I do agree with what you've said in most cases here, BUT there are the rare and wonderful times when the scouts/coaches are there to watch someone else, and you can't help but get noticed.

OfcrKID#1 was seen by the Director of Scouting of the Phillies in just such an occasion. They were playing TCU one afternoon, and the Phillies crew was there to watch a potential first rounder. There was some "exposure" already documented on the cadKID, but not huge. Enough though that the first round prospect decided to throw his best heat and prove that he could take on AF's best hitter. cadKID hit a 97mph fastball back at the prospect and almost killed him. A line drive that hit the fence on a fly in straight away center. The prospect went the distance throwing 16 s/o's that day, but cadKID went 3 for 4, with a dinger, because the prospect let his ego get in the way, continuously throwing hard stuff.

Not there to watch cadKID, but they took him in the Draft. When I spoke a year later to the Scouting Director, his remembrance was that cadKID hit 2 dingers and went 5 for 5. Priceless...

Coach Busboom always used to say, "the guy that stays is the guy that plays..."

Get seen, wherever you can, when you may least expect it. They're watching you in the parking lot, putting your shoes on...

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I agree with the statement that exposure is a good thing. I do think a few folks go a little over the top in trying to attend every showcase event out there though. Where do those parents get their money from anyhow?

We are very fortunate in that son plays at a high school that draws a fair amount of attention from the scouting community. We still have attended a few showcases and can legitimately say it was just for the experience. Son and family both enjoyed every minute.

Fungo is exactly right, there are only so many roster spots available (even fewer with roster reductions). I think showcases give players the opportunity (or additional opportunity) to make a bid for one of those spots.

Baseball options? Pretty much still the same, lots of guys going after a few spots. Showcases and exposure improve a players odds though.

Silly question , but are showcases only, mostly hitting, or fielding is involved?

quote:

Showcases and exposure improve a players odds though.

OK2Go
Please excuse me if I use your comment as an example because I agree with almost all you said BUT we need to discuss something --- If my son is on the radar at State U rated a 9 (for sake of discussion) and your son is seen at a showcase by the State U coach and is rated an 8, your son hasn't developed an "option" at State U although on the surface it appears that he has. The coach cannot "create" a roster spot for an "8" when he has given that option to a "9". Yes, your son can receive an option at State U but only if my son moves on to College "B". But by moving on to college "B" my son "steals" an option that someone else thought they had in the bag at college "B". I actually saw this happen first hand. UT had offered my son and at the same time their second choice which they had shown interest in, was getting the cold shoulder. (I happened to know the dad of the other player and we talked) As our interest waned, their activity increased, as our interest increased theirs waned. My son was actually controlling the recruitment of the other player. My son was more talented and controlled the option. My son moved on and the player "B' ended up at UT. Yes, players need some exposure but talent controls the outcome. Showcases don't improve the odds. Do the math, showcases simply increase the player pool for the same number of roster spots. Explain how that could improve ones odds?

EXAMPLE: If you're unemployed and interviewing for a position and there are three applicants. What are your odds? 1 in 3. The room fills to twenty people. What happened to your odds? 1 in 20. But you are definitely the most qualified (talented) applicant and suddenly your odds improve. YES! But what just happened to those other unqualified dummies? What happened to their odds? They just got all dressed up to stand in line.
Fungo

It's been my experience of the following:

"With Chaos, comes Opportunities"

and for 277 of the 297 D-1 Collegiate Baseball Colleges, there are opportunities in the recruiting chaos.

I seems to me that it brakes down like this.

Schools - have more options when more kids join the pool and get more exposure.

Top talents - have more options because more schools get to see them. e.g. jerseyson and other "northern" kids.

All other kids - have less options because there will be more kids for the same amount of spots at the colleges.

As usual, and how it should be, is that the more talented someone is the more options they have. This is true in baseball and in any other profession. If a kid comes out of Harvard with a 4.0 he has more optiions than a kid coming out of another school with a 2.5 GPA.

quote:

Silly question , but are showcases only, mostly hitting, or fielding is involved?

Not silly at all. Showcase promoter try to evaluate all aspects of a player's talents including fielding. More and more promoters are also including game situations in their showcases to reveal strengths and weaknesses that cannot be evaluated with a stop watch or a radar gun.
Fungo

fillsfan, Good post.

I agree with TR. Even though we didn't showcase, the more you attend the more coaches get to see you. Not all coaches attend 1 showcase. In fact many show cases put you infront of a totally different type of colleges. Also players can often have poor showcases. I have seen guys sign based on 1 good appearance. Not awlways a good thing to do.
I once saw a guy signed at a MLB tryout which is extremely rare. He had played 2 years of college ball in the US and was signed while playing for a local college. That day he was hitting mid 90s.He was not an outstanding pitcher even in the local college but his velocity that day got him a shot. Never heard about him again.
I saw a guy in a game who had his most outstanding game and he was signed to a college deal. I was sitting with the recruiter and he was taken by the kids speed on the bases. I kept quiet because I knew the kid very well and it was extremely rare he got on base. He was released after his 1st year.
Sowcases and tryouts do create more options and sometimes options where non existed before.
I have also been to watch MLB crosscheckers who were there to watch a high draft pick. He was humbled by my son and another lefty. They didn't look at anyone but the draft pick who is about to start his 3rd year in MiLB and has had 2 very great years in MiLB. I believe they saw a very strong and projectable hitter. He signed for just under $500,000. I also have been tocamps/tryouts were there are 5-6 guys throwing 90+ and they only look at those guys so others are overlooked.
The more tryouts/camps you go to the more options you may create but then again how many do you need?. To us showcases were a last option to create BB options.

quote:

EXAMPLE: If you're unemployed and interviewing for a position and there are three applicants. What are your odds? 1 in 3. The room fills to twenty people. What happened to your odds? 1 in 20. But you are definitely the most qualified (talented) applicant and suddenly your odds improve. YES! But what just happened to those other unqualified dummies? What happened to their odds? They just got all dressed up to stand in line.

While this example makes sense. What are the odds on securing that job if you don't show up and the employer does not know that you exsist?

No matter how it is done... putting yourself in the best position can increase your options. It has happened thousands of times. It doesn't mean those options will be the ones you want. It doesn't even gaurantee you will have any options at all. That is because everything is based on what happens after you show up. That is the same whether it be a job interview, an audition, a tryout, etc.

The best players end up with the most options, but only if they are known and seen by the option givers. You could say that every option that is taken it creates a new opening/option at the place that didn't get the player. Or you could say that every option that someone takes eliminates an option for someone else. Half a dozen of one... 6 of another.

Professional baseball works in similiar fashion. Only so many draft picks. Only so many jobs available. We all know the draft is not perfect. The art of scouting and selecting players involves the ability to project talent. If Buster Posey is worth 6 million now, why was he a 50th round pick out of high school? He was still the same Buster Posey! Only a few years younger and played a different position. He was an AFLAC All American as a high school player. He then ended up being a catcher at Florida State. That increased his value and ended up giving him more options.

For nearly every player... Every route taken, every result obtained, could have been different (better or worse) by doing things differently.

Sorry if I got off topic there. I just think this is a very interesting topic and an important one.

.
Not Brain Surgery....simple as Offense/Defense...

..for the middle of the bell curve...

Offense: Used to be that showcasing was an offensive move, being agressive, taking charge, beating the #'s game..

Defense: Now showcasing has become a DEFENSIVE move...like it or not, whine as you will, argue against it...BUT...middle bell curve talent HAS to showcase some just to stay even.

for the top players, doesn't matter, talent talks over long distances....for the middle of the pack you cannot "get behind" when talent is equal and you are seeking "Blue Chip Crumbs".

44
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PG Jerry pretty much is right on.

As far as showcases and their benefit, one thinks they provide a great service more to professional baseball than college baseball.

A few players may jump State after more exposure but many stay somewhat local. The area programs, say at least the surrounding States programs will have heard of the player, scouted the player, and have seen the player perform many times in summerball.

It is my opinion that college coaches first and foremost try to land the best players within their respective States FIRST.


If one jumps States, another fills the gap.

quote:

for the top players, doesn't matter, talent talks over long distances....for the middle of the pack you cannot "get behind" when talent is equal and you are seeking "Blue Chip Crumbs".

O44,
I have a much different take regarding the top players. Talent might talk over long distance, but still needs to be seen by the right people. We have just seen too many examples of talent all of a sudden showing up in the right place at the right time and everything changes. It amazes us at times how many players are missed or simply not turned in for other reasons.

Bobble probably knows the Joey Votto story. For sure Joey Votto knows the story. We have seen many Joey Votto situations. Carl Crawford was being recruited as a football and basketball player before becoming well known nationally. Jon Gilmore would have been drafted, but nowhere around the first round where he ended up had he not performed at the right places. If everyone knew who these top guys are, they would mostly all be playing for the USA National team while in high school. As hard as we try, we still miss some "top" players every year. How do we explain the players who come out of DIII colleges and get drafted early or make the Big Leagues? Were they not "top" guys? If projection is the secret to scouting... Why do so many high school players get drafted in a decent round and then not at all out of college? Why do so many high school kids who are drafted late or not even on the draft board become early round picks out of college. I'm not talking about the signability types, but the not so well known guys (Nationally) out of high school. If everyone knew the top guys, this scouting thing wouldn't be so difficult and inexact.

I know most people think the top guys are all well known and to a certain extent that is true. However, most of the top guys are players who have done all these things to become well known top guys. Every once in awhile the "top" guys have not gone to any higher profile events. They still get drafted early in some cases. Roscoe Crosby, Colt Griffin, etc. Often these guys don't pan out as top guys. Maybe this would have been discovered had the scouting community seen them play against the very best possible competition before drafting them.

Exposure is an over played word, but yet it needs to be understood. If someone cares to look up the word exposure it doesn't mean it is always a positive thing. Exposing someone can be either postive or negative.

Bottom line... Often people say "so and so" talented player didn't need to do anything. He would have been a first round pick no matter what. Everyone knew who he was. While that is true sometimes, somewhere along the way he was not that well known. If we look at all the early round high school draft picks over the recent years, there is one thing that most have in common. Most were well known nationally and didn't get that way by only staying at home and playing ball.

Fungo's son was a well known player out of high school. I understand Fungo when he talks about not needing to spend money going to a lot of showcases. However, trying hard to be humble her... If we don't know a player... chances are he is not well known nationally! Certainly we would be part of that everyone knows him scenario. We had heard about Fungo’s son through scouting channels and we knew he had played a high level of summer baseball. But it was the East Coast Pro Showcase in Wilmington NC where we and many others first saw him play. He was extremely talented BTW! Did he need the ECP to receive more options? I don’t know for sure, but I would be very surprised if that showcase didn’t help create even more interest. In fact, I’d be shocked. There were simply too many scouts in attendance to think otherwise. Also it was then that we placed Josh in our rankings and fairly high. People can say what they want but we know how many important people see these rankings. BTW, Fungo’s son never attended a PG event and Fungo never paid us a dime! So in one respect he is 100% correct… He didn’t need to! However, he did need to do something along the way to receive so much interest.

This is an example of succeeding without attending every event possible. Most top players attend our events, that is documented! Some don’t, but we know who nearly all of them are because they have been to other events where we have seen them. Some don’t attend anything and we still know who they are, but can’t give an opinion as to how they compare on a national scale. If a player truly is a “top” player, the more he is seen the better it might end up.

Sorry, for being long winded here, but I’m stuck at home due to the weather!

I just happen to know the Joey Votto story (a Canadian) because I recently read about it in the paper. Here is an excerpt from a story in the Myrtle Beach Sun News on Coastal Carolina's recent recruiting class where they tell the story about Votto being an unknown:

quote:

CONWAY -- On paper it looks really good right now, in fact Coastal Carolina baseball coach Gary Gilmore said it is "scary" good.

Gilmore said if the Chanticleers can reel in their early signees it would be the best collection of pitching recruits in Coastal history.

The six-player group includes three left-handed pitchers (Steven Matz, Matt Laney and Stefan del Pino) with high MLB draft potential, and Gilmore said two more commitments might be in hand shortly.

One would think Gilmore would be doing Tiger Woods-like fist pumps in his office, but one name has curbed Gilmore's enthusiasm: Joey Votto.

Votto, now the Cincinnati Reds' first baseman, had signed a letter of intent to play at Coastal and would have teamed with former Chant Mike Costanzo to give Coastal a tremendous amount of firepower.

But it never formulated.

Prior to signing, the little-known Votto, a Canadian, was in Charleston in 2001 for a tournament and Gilmore came at the invitation of a friend.

With his club team down two catchers, Votto filled in behind the plate and threw out two runners from his knees in addition to an impressive power display he put on at the plate.

Gilmore thought he had stumbled across something of an oil field. He called the Atlanta Braves to gauge pro interest and Votto wasn't even on their board.

Soon the CCU coach went to Toronto to woo Votto, who eventually signed as an early commitment.

Unfortunately for Gilmore, Votto didn't remain a secret. At a Reds pre-draft camp Votto slammed 10 balls into the Riverfront Stadium upperdeck with a wooden bat. When the draft rolled around, Votto went from unknown to the 44th overall pick in the 2002 draft.

Fungo – I completely agree with your position that talent is the main factor when it comes to who gets offered a scholarship over whom. My only caveat is for the player that hasn’t had the opportunity to perform in front of the right people.

For instance if the coach from State U has a chance to see Player “A” at a showcase when he has either not had (or not taken) the opportunity to see him play in a high school game. Player “A” has improved his odds. Agreed if he does get an offer it will be at the expense of Player “B”, a less talented player that was in line for the position. Player “A” has more options. Player “B” unfortunately now has fewer options. Survival of the fittest at its best! Of course Player “A” has got to have the talent to draw the State U coach’s attention in the first place. In this case, it’s good to be Player “A”.

One other thing though, let’s say you’re the coach at State U. There’s a kid on your radar that has scored a 9 at a showcase but you haven’t seen him play. You do however, get to see another kid play at a game in your area. You grade this kid at an 8 on your own scale. You only have one scholarship opening. When it comes time to make an offer, whom do you go after? Do showcases and events give more options to coaches and scouts as opposed to players? Can it be bad either way?

Yes PG I know Votto very well. He played for the Canadian Thunder Birds and he was a character. Not always well behaved. They still laugh about him. He left and went to the Etobicake Rangers run by a Seattle csout named Bob Smythe who converted him to a 3rd baseman and helped him develop his power. He credits Bob with his success but didn't share the $800,000. signing bonus.
He never really stood out back then as there were several stud hitters. as I have always said it is a developmental game. Scott Thorman when I 1st saw him I was impressed. He was also on the T Birds playing 3rd B.
Weglarz also never stood out. A couple years under good coaching and dedicating himself made a big difference. He was big and strong but overweight in HS and was cut from the Niagara Falls Midget AAA team. I know the coach and he still shakes his head in disbelief.

bobble,

We first saw Joey Votto when he was a junior in high school and like most everyone else, we didn’t know much about him. He attended the Sunshine East in 2001 and he stood out to us. In fact, we invited him to the PG National Showcase the next week at Tropicana Field where he once again stood out in front of a bunch of scouting directors.

That National Showcase included first round picks like Scott Kazmir (TX), Sergio Santos (CA), BJ Upton (VA), Denard Span (FL), Chris Gruler (CA), Prince Fielder (FL), Jeff Clement (IA), Scott Moore (CA), Alex Gordan (NE), Jensen Lewis (OH), Clint Everts (TX), Lastings Milledge (FL), Jarrod Saltalamacchia (FL), Cliff Pennington (TX), John Mayberry (KS), Micah Schilling (LA), among others. There were around 20 players there who have already played in the big leagues and Votto is one of them.

We also saw Thorman and Weglarz play several times. Thorman was obvious 1st rd type but Weglarz also stood out to us. Here is our report on him in 2004…

Weglarz is a 2005 1B/RHP from Stevensville, ON, Can with a 6'3"/215 pound body, he can flat out mash! Big time power, huge bat speed, good bat control, good feel and instincts, soft hands, can pick balls out of the dirt, 81 mph arm from IF, MLB body, projects in a big way, high level college prospect with pro potential, excellent student

BTW, we graded both Weglarz and Votto a 9 on our scale. Looking at it now... Guess we could have easily given Votto a 10 probably Weglarz too.

CD,

Unfortunately I'm afraid Coastal will lose Matz who is one of the top lefties in high school baseball.

Not sure when Votto was at that tournament, but he was far from little-known by the end of June in 2001.

That said Gilmore and his staff do a great job of recruiting outstanding players who are not so well known. And some who are pretty well known too.

quote:

FACT: There are a set number of roster spots and WE can't change that. That number is determined by the number of college baseball teams X the number of players on a team minus the existing players.

Myth: As more players showcase, the general consensus is that more players will have more options, right?

I say NOT. If anything we just have MORE players vying for the same number of roster spots.

Fungo

I agree that the number of roster spots will not change but I have to disagree that more players showcasing will not provide more options and I think my son might be a perfect example. He played for a high profile high school team in Florida that had several players drafted during his career there.Interestingly enough one of them was even named Josh Bell, no relation but definitely coincidental.

Son was an excellent student, top 12 in a class of 800+, All-County as a junior, all-state as a senior. He hit for power and average, leading the county his senior year and in the top 10 his junior year. He played high profile showcase and his team came in 2nd in the PG underclass world series. Despite all of this he did not sign early, got no interest in the draft and had he not attended the Headfirst Showcase in his junior year he most likely would not have been playing Division 1 ball. He attended 3 PG showcases and was rated 8 each time, we did get many of the camp invitational letters of interest but for whatever reason local interest was never high.

Attending additional showcases provided an opportunity that apparently wasn't forthcoming without it. So my contention is that while showcasing may not provide any more overall options than there are roster spots. It will give individual players more options to find someplace to play. I would also contend that the increasing participation in showcases could actually improve the overall talent in baseball across the spectrum.

Glad to see Matt Laney's name on that Coastal list. Matt will be a junior at Coastal after doing his freshman year at East Carolina and this year at Miami-Dade JuCo. He's a former high school rival of ours and he and his dad are friends of ours.

jmepop posted:
So my contention is that while showcasing may not provide any more overall options than there are roster spots. It will give individual players more options to find someplace to play.

I thought Fillsfan addressed that pretty good.

Fillsfan said:


Schools - have more options when more kids join the pool and get more exposure.

Top talents - have more options because more schools get to see them. e.g. jerseyson and other "northern" kids.

All other kids - have less options because there will be more kids for the same amount of spots at the colleges.

As usual, and how it should be, is that the more talented someone is the more options they have. This is true in baseball and in any other profession. If a kid comes out of Harvard with a 4.0 he has more optiions than a kid coming out of another school with a 2.5 GPA.

jmepop, answer this question: IF there are 2,000 college roster spots available and 2,500 players participate in showcases, do all showcase participants have options?

I was curious PG if RJ Swindle ever went to one of your events. He is a LHP who just signed with his 4th MLB team. He topped out at 80-81 and in 190 innings in the minors had 210 Ks and a 1.53 era. He recently signed with the Breweers. he is a Candian who lived in Florida and attended CSU.

bobble,

I'm stuck at home (bad weather today) so I can't check our database. I do not remember RJ Swindle attending any of our stuff. I don't think he did.

Fungo

I can't disagree that if there are 2000 spots and 2500 participants then 500 will get shut out. The important thing is that without showcasing one of those 2000 could very well miss one of those spots if they are only staying in their area hoping their talent will get them one.

By showcasing the player that previously had 1 option now may have 2 or 5 or 10. The individuals options increase. I don't disagree that there are more players vying for the same spot but if a kid has talent it seems he increases his individual odds.

quote:

By showcasing the player that previously had 1 option now may have 2 or 5 or 10.

I don't disagree. That happens frequently. But those options are controlled by talent and the "option" to the less talented player may only be a "teaser line" to keep him in tow. If the player had 1 option and by showcasing now has 10 different options he can only gain those 9 by taking 9 away from the other participants and they aren't told that. The other less talented participants can only lay claim to the 9 when he doesn't use them. They belong to the talented player until he gives them up by declining their offer. Lot of musical chairs and money changing hands but when it's all said and done, the NLIs are signed, signing bonuses paid out things are pretty much as they would have been anyway --- with few exceptions. The "results" of all the shuffling are monumental in the minds of those that paid money or made money. To those on the outside (like myself) it looks like a mad house "black friday" at Wal-mart with 300 people paying the "Wal-Mart greeter" $20 to be first through the doors trying to lay claim to 10 iPods. I just smile and order mine from Wal-Mart.com

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I was curious PG if RJ Swindle ever went to one of your events. He is a LHP who just signed with his 4th MLB team. He topped out at 80-81 and in 190 innings in the minors had 210 Ks and a 1.53 era. He recently signed with the Breweers. he is a Candian who lived in Florida and attended CSU.

RJ was a Central Florida Renegade, which has regularly attended PG tournaments. I think he was a 2001 or 2002 grad so his high school career may have pre-dated many current showcase events. He isn't listed as attending any PG showcases.

I understand the point Fungo is trying to make.

Sort of reminds me of recruiting letters. Coach sends out 100 questionaires with camp invites, gets 100 questionaire back with some signing up for camp, and many calls afterwards that player is coming up to visit (unofficial). All it cost him was postage. All he needs is a few.

One thing that I think is going on, while all of this is opening doors for some, it's closing doors for others. The school that used to recruit strickly close to home now has other options, that player close to home has to search out other options as well. It may not all be positive for everyone.

As many good stories that come out of attending top showcases and tournaments, I know of many instances where it didn't work, however most of the time lack of talent or grades had more to do with it than anything.

It's obvious that most can't sit home and wait for the phone to ring.

As I stated in another topic, make a plan.

BTW, OS that was me and here is the real story, I didn't blast you because of the post that your son got 99 calls from coaches on July 1, I blasted you because you posted it in the same thread where a young HS player was asking why he got no calls. I think that maybe if you look back at that time you might understand why I called you out.
I think that yu will also agree that the calls that come on July 1 don't always translate into offers.

Showcase baseball creates more options for the players talented enough to have those options. It does not create options for the players not talented enough to have those options.

If a player does not get out in front of coaches from outside his area that he is talented enough to play for he limits his options. If he does he increases his options. For instance , no way my son is recruited by an SEC school 700 miles away if he is not seen at the PG National Showcase by that school.

So showcase baseball does create more options but for the players talented enough to play for those options seeing him. It does not create options for the players not talented enough to play for those options.

Who has ever said that recruiting is not controlled by talent? I am totally confused! Is there something involved where the less talented player gets the scholarship? The question always remains... Who is the most talented? WHO gets the most options?

I used discretion? Why take credit?

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
CD,

Unfortunately I'm afraid Coastal will lose Matz who is one of the top lefties in high school baseball.

Not sure when Votto was at that tournament, but he was far from little-known by the end of June in 2001.

That said Gilmore and his staff do a great job of recruiting outstanding players who are not so well known. And some who are pretty well known too.

PG- I remember Matz as my son played Little League as a teammate with him- Man, time passes quickly!- Even then, he had a "mini-rocket arm". We saw him pitch at a few events at Baseball Heaven when we were in tourneys there also. Nice to see a Long Island kid hit the charts in a big way. I hope he does well no matter which way he decides to go! Its good for Long Island baseball!