Baseball people that Never return calls/emails

You know mrmom, I used to feel that way too. It frustrated me that when a school decided to stop recruiting our son, there was no call or email. But when he decided on a college, he had to do the "right thing" and call the other schools to tell them. Didn't seem fair to me.

Probably still doesn't. But I've just come to realize that these coaches have a huge job. They're all over the place, away from their family most of the summer. I once asked a coach when is his time off? He said, well...late Fall after the early signing and Fall practice is over. Thats a little tough isn't it? The only 'vacation' time you get is when your own kids are in school and the weather ain't so great. But they love their jobs, so lets not feel too sorry for them.

More than anything, I changed my mind about feeling frustrated or ticked-off because I realize that college athletics is a business. They've got a lot to do. We've got a lot to do. When they find someone they think is better, they have to move on, yet not burn their bridges (?maybe? they'll need to come back to your son a little later?). When we find a school we think is better, we don't let them in on that secret until its a done deal - right? Same thing for them I suppose.

I think our sons learn a little about the real world in this process. I certainly don't call every candidate I interview for a job back if I decide not to hire them...I call some back, but not all. Its probably about the same thing here. It operates a lot like our professional lives.

And angry (not a word you used, but worth discussing)? No, I don't get angry at all about this stuff (I GET EVEN! HA! HA! Just kidding of course). Seriously, I have found on the few occasions I have gotten a little angry it just hasn't helped my son at all...not one bit. So I just recognize it as being what it is and move on. It probably wasn't the right place anyways. Just move on with positive energy and find the new best thing. I just find that works a lot better.

mrmom,
That is a 2 way street, Im sure there recruiter's out there that say the player did not show much interest?
EH

quote:

I think our sons learn a little about the real world in this process. I certainly don't call every candidate I interview for a job back if I decide not to hire them...I call some back, but not all. Its probably about the same thing here. It operates a lot like our professional lives.

JBB, I've been meaning to talk to you about that.
I have the proper training and would make an excellent
employee.
But you have not called me back??

I am well worth the 6 figure income I'm asking for. LOL
EH

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
I think our sons learn a little about the real world in this process. I certainly don't call every candidate I interview for a job back if I decide not to hire them...I call some back, but not all. Its probably about the same thing here. It operates a lot like our professional lives.

It may be real, but that doesn't make it right. This is part of what is wrong in our world.

Those applicants devoted the time, effort and expense to interview. Yet they are not notified when not selected? Extremely poor manners - corporate or personal.

Not much of an excuse for never returning a call. Waiting until it is more convenient is one thing. Never responding to a call (with either a phone call, email or letter) is poor manners.

Doesn't matter whether the reason is cowardice, laziness or just plain apathy.

Whoa Texan! Hang on there partner.

Probably used a bad example...was really talking figuratively as this is what my wife and I have experienced when looking for a job. And it IS part of the real world.

Sorry, my bad. Was just ramblin'.

For the record...I DO return calls and I DO notify applicants. OK...we ok now? YIKES! I'll be quiet for a while...I promise!

I was responding to the concept and using the same example. Didn't intend to roast you in the process. Sorry about that. Should have picked a different example.

As I stated in the previous post, I'm not arguing that it isn't part of the real world. Just stating that it isn't right.

It shows a lack of common courtesy & respect. If a kid is bugging a coach by too much contact, then the coach should tell the kid to back off. If the coach can't answer the question for a couple of months, then say so.

We'd all be better off with a little more old fashioned courtesy.

Does it happen? Yes. Is it rude? Yes. Is it an inevitable reality of the recruiting process? Yes. Will it change?No.

It's a getting a "foot in the door" process. Recruiters have to "maximize" their potentials list and when everything shakes out they focus on their priorities. This is the same mentality that a recruit who is pursued by many schools uses, or as far as that goes any business that you take part in that has options. I'll bet everyone here does the same thing when options are presented, we only find it rude when we're holding the short end of the stick.

I agree, it is not fair, it is not polite and it is not something that we teach our kids to do.
But as stated by JBB and rz, this is part of the realities of the recruiting process. I never understood it either, why one week a coach tells you he wants you in his program and then never calls, but it happens to everyone. It doesn't make the coach a good or bad guy. It's a business, for all programs, and business is business, unfortunetly.

The problem is, many think that every coach that sees our son play or makes a phone call, SHOULD offer an opportunity, because to us, our sons are the best and good enough to play for that team or coach. We take it personally and we should not.

JMO.

I think it would make more sense if you understood the coaches’ position in the recruiting ride. They are recruiting multiple players knowing in the end they will only select a few. They are not sure which players will commit and which will go elsewhere. I personally think they avoid those players they are not currently “hottest” on to keep from having to tell the truth about the current situation. It is akin to being in a polygamist courtship that will eventually ends in a monogamous relationship.
Once again this is where the business aspect of sports raises its ugly head. Baseball coaches are not unethical irresponsible people that don’t return phone calls but rather businessmen that are attempting to maintain a healthy recruiting pool. From the player’s stand point it probably means he's still in the running (just not in first place).
Fungo

It teaches your kid that it is all about ability. When a coach finds a better player, it would be better if they would tell the player, but it's like when you are looking for a job, no news is bad news.

It is just the way it is.

How many firms let you know after you interviewed that you did not get the job ?

They only call the successful candidates

JBB great insight. If you are going to pit your son in a position to get turned down, get lack of response etc make sure he understands that not everyone plays by the same set of principals.
almost all coaches I dealt with were very polite and returned calls etc but let your son know what to expect.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
It is just the way it is.

How many firms let you know after you interviewed that you did not get the job ?

They only call the successful candidates

It wasn't that long ago, at least in the south, that firms always followed up an interview with at least a "flush" letter.

You know I see both sides. It is only polite to respond to an inquiry. However I am involved in a business and people contact us continually wanting to ask questions or sell us what they have, or ask how much it is worth. A few years ago we responded to everyone. We don't anymore because it just got out of hand. Some people can not accept no, I am not interested for an answer. They go on and on asking why not? Well where should I try? etc etc. I am sure that some coaches have had similar experiences and that may be the reason they no longer respond. Just a thought.

Thanks for the responses they've been very insightful. Apparently the practice is pretty wide spread and I guess I don't possibly understand the scope of how many players these schools "actively recruit."

I guess I believe while not everyone deserves a response from unsolicited inquiries Active inquiries from the schools followed by mutual dialogue and interest deserve closure.

Wonder how many schools have lost a kid "down the road" because of bad manors associated with a friend of a friends kid or a summer team coaches bad experience.

I imagine each of us here, some with more experience, others like myself with less, still form opinions that we pass on to prospective candidates. For my money professionalism separates the good from the great!

It has gone one step further however. A Big 10 School began recruiting my son in late August. A number of phone calls, many trying to get a handle on his pitching schedule to come in and see him (they weren't local). They called a pro scout from the area to come look at him, and he got back to the school that he was very impressed. By early Oct. the phone calls ceased. When my son inquired of the coaches, they told him they were still interested, just busy, they wanted to see him pitch still, and made a commitment to see him in Jupiter. They called his cell phone while in Jupiter, got his schedule and promised to be there. You know what happened, they never showed at his game in spite of being in Jupiter.

Well the whole story, is that he had lost velocity from consistent low 90's to mid 80's, although I don't think many schools knew it before Jupiter. His former excellent control was now iffy also. We chalked it up to a tired arm. Actually, we just found out he has had mononucleosis for some time and it's robbed him of strength and energy.

On the flip side, we had an MVC school very hot after my son based on a pro scouts evaluation of him. Made an official visit, they were ready to make and offer, just wanted to see him pitch once. But by the time they saw him, he was already ill. That coach took the time to communicate with us that he was not going to make an offer right now, but if my sons velocity increased in the spring, they would be back.

Moral to the story, the MVC school acted honorably, while the Big 10 school didn't. One will still get consideration, while one won't.

The diagnosis of mono was actually a relief to my son. He finally had an answer as to why he couldn't any longer summon the skills that he had for so long. He should be back to form this spring, and unlike most, he'll go through the process a second time.

CPLZ - I sent you a pm.

quote:

Originally posted by mrmom:
What do people think of this. Over time I've seen college recruiters summer team recruiters be "hot' for a prospect send them email etc. then - not even answer after that.

As an adult I'm OK with this but I'm concerned what it teaches young people. They are encouraged to get into this for themselves be their own man etc. then when they ask a coach a question or call they never get a response.

Seems cowardly and sets a bad precedent. I'd much rather have then say son you just didn't cut it or whatever but ignoring - that weak

It has nothing to do with your son or your family. Coaches are part of society and for some reason people today don't return phone calls or if they do return your call it's two or three day's after you have called them. Maybe I am just too "old school" but if you call me today, I will return your call today unless something major get's in my way of doing that. I also demand this of my employees. Like I told a salesman one day, if you return the phone call the person on the other end of the line may want to give you a big order or he may what to eat on your backside but you will never know if you don't return the call.

I'll just share one story with you that shows there are a myriad of reasons why these types of things happen...not all bad on your son's part and some represent a mistake by the college coach.

A very successful school from the ACC was very actively recruiting our son. Lots of emails, phone calls, promise of an official visit. Over and over they asked, "are you sure you would leave California for our school?" And emphatic "YES!" was given every time. Son even made sure to take an unofficial visit to the school while in that city...met with the head coach, took a tour, answered the questions yet again.

Then about 2-3 weeks later, the calls stopped cold. The emails stopped cold. No idea why. We followed up with one email...wasn't returned.

Life moved on, son committed to his present school. We're all happy.

But the next summer (after his senior HS year), he is playing in a tournament in that city again. I'm behind the backstop standing next to a coach...yep, the head coach of THAT school. He is talking to a friend of mine, who says, "let me introduce you to my friend 'justbaseball' (he used my real name)...he is the father of jbb jr."

The coach politely said "hi" and then said, thats what I'm here looking for, another jbb jr. I laughed and said, "well then why did you stop calling last year?" "Well", he said, "we heard (his present school) was a done deal, so we cut our losses." I laughed again and said, "geez, at the time you stopped calling it was absolutely NOT a done deal...you had a real shot." "Oh well, I guess we goofed" is what he said in return. Now that could have been a cover-up on his part too...maybe he found a better player?...or got a commitment from someone else on his list?...we'll never know for sure, but the point is we assumed something that may not have been true.

Long story (sorry), but the point is there are ALL KINDS OF REASONS they don't return calls/emails or stop communication. Call them...AGAIN!...you may find out they've assumed something that isn't true. Leave a message saying you're still interested. Don't stand still waiting for them to call back and don't be a pest...work on other options. But don't give up too easily either.

Good luck!

I think JBB brings up something that is very important.
If your son is getting definite interest from a particular coach then things go silent, call or email to find out what's going on. I think many do not, because they don't want to hear the answer, JMO.

But sometimes coaches will cool things down if they find out that a player they have been recruiting might be leaning strongly towards another school. They too in turn don't want to hold off other recruits.
This is baseball recruiting folks, not football, they move on.

I believe coaches are just like anyone else, they return calls and messages when they have something to communicate. If they have something to tell you, and are really interested in you, then they respond. Otherwise, if they have nothing and are not very interested, you get nothing.

Like other's have said, just keep moving on.

This Fall my son has been on the recruiting rollar coaster. He is still un-commited and has pretty much decided that he won't commit until this spring... unless a great offer is made before that time comes. As "The Dad", the no call backs and the no e-mail responses, ticked me off. These were from schools that contacted him to begin with.
Now that the early signing period has passed and we know more of how this works, we'll be more prepared in the spring.
My son will continue to be courteous and attentive to every Coach that calls. He will listen and consider how they feel he will fit into their program...
As for me, I'm gonna get a shirt made that says in bold letters "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"
I know I can't really do that, but it has crossed my mind. The one thing I will do is if any of those Coaches, that couldn't take a moment to respond to my son after they began the process in the first place, come a callin', well, they better bring a good offer.
There are two ways to insure trust in business. One is open honesty, the other is investment in the deal. A scholarship binds both parties to work towards success.

.

quote:

As for me, I'm gonna get a shirt made that says in bold letters "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"
I know I can't really do that, but it has crossed my mind.

Stay Real, please...and for anyone else frustrated...

While I understand the frustration, such slights should not happen, and are not right...

And while it may feel real good to take that power back strongly, Try to remember that the ultimate goal is not to be right, but rather to find a fit, and play college ball.

I would be very wary of being demanding to a coach, it is a very slippery slope. Being too strong could label you the red flag "problem parent" that takes your player out of some consderation, into no consideration at all. AND (we have talked about this before) it is an exceedingly small fraternity you are dealing with. Coaches communicate. A poor reputation could not only take you out of consideration for one coach but a whole bunch of coaches/schools.

I know it's hard but this is how the game is played. If you are "Blue Chip" you have leverage and can play the game pretty forcefully, if you are in the early sign you may have a couple offers and options which may equal some power. After the early sign is over, the coaches are no fools, they understand the market.

Like it or not, right or wrong, this is the game and this is how it is played. While it may be morally right, you could be well with in your rights and be looking at college without baseball.

44

uh... the shirt thing was a JOKE! I know how this thing works.

But, I will say that the kids (and the parents) are at a disadvantage in this process. For most of us, this is the one and only time we will go through this. On the otherhand, coaches are playing this game everyday. We have met with a majority of coaches that are honest and have great integrity, but there have also been a few that don't come across as having those traits.

Consider, that these are the folks that will be the most influential people in our kids lives over the next few years. Which just happens to be the most important time in their progression from adolesence to adulthood. Shouldn't we, as parents, be wary of who these guys are that we are intrusting our children with?
As stated earlier, this is a business. Whether a kid is getting a full ride or just book money, he is going to be being paid to play. Most parents are still in the "playing for fun" mindset verses the "paid to play" reality of college sports, when going through the recruiting process. Buyer beware!

As far as being a "good parent" goes, I know that game also. Little League raking fields, Travel ball raising money, High School working on facilities, Showcase ball paying money (more than I care to think about!). Now my son is about to move up another rung in the ladder and I'm ready to buy my popcorn and soda pop and watch him play the game we both love.

One last thing. The "coaching faternity" is a very small group but on the otherhand the "parent faternity" is huge. Sites like hsbaseballweb give us a way to be aware of what is going on in the baseball world. Wouldn't it be interesting if there was a forum labeled "Good Coaches/Bad Coaches" where players and/or parents, who have moved beyond college, could share their experiences. That would eliminate some of the "shadiness" that is out there. I know there would be some "ax grinders" but the honest answers would prevail in the end.

.
Gman..

Good post.

Knew for certain you were not serious, but figured it was a good opening to rant.

Agreed most parents, particularly the uninformed ones are definately at the mercy of the schools. Kind of like a player facing a curve ball for the first time. Hardly a "fair" relationship. That is why the HSBBW is so key.

Agreed about the parent fraternity. Such a network does however exist. While I have been criticised here for saying so, I have always advocated talking to every player and every parent you can. Within a couple "degrees of seperation" you can find people with experience (good and bad) for almost any program. While agreed a great deal of that information can be biased, a great deal of very important information (over-recruiting, coaches attitudes, politics, player development, transfer info, educational help...) is pretty close if you are wiling to work just a little. Two years on with a digging just a bit, I felt I had had a pretty clear picture of the recruiting practices, personalities, opportunities, challenges, politics, and more....of well over a dozen programs, and have passed that info onto the next crop. I would be willing to bet that a good bit of such info gets transferred around on the PM side of the HSBBW. Knew the recruting practcies of schools before they called. Was also able to predict to the next group what schools would do...and most often that was exactly what they did.

The only reason that some programs are able to do what they do is because; they sometimes are winners, the families get stars in their eyes, and it is a sellers/recruiters market. I have seen players accept situations they later regretted because they didn't want to know the truth, were up for an ego boost and needed a trophy. When they should have been after a good fit.

44

It works both ways. I can tell you the word gets around pretty quickly about the programs that do not do it the right way. There is no excuse for not being honest. PERIOD. You tell guys all the time make sure you return all your emails. Make sure you return all the questionaires because you never know. My son has gotten several emails, questionaires and letters from numerous schools. We return everything right away regardless if he is interested in that school or not. It is just a common courtesy. I dont think it is too much to ask the same thing in return. I can tell you this the schools that my son has high on his list include the ones that have been just as prompt and courteous as he has been. It is a two way street and the programs that get a bad reputation for not showing the two way street mentality will suffer eventually for this type of behavior.

.
Coach,

Would agree. Strangely enough, the schools that were straight up with the reruiting even if they did not tell us what we exactly what we wanated to hear, were the ones that we most seriously consdiered and the ones that we ended up with. Also found that later players comitted the same places for the exact same positive reasons.

44
.

Coach May and Observer are right, the ones that were straight up with us were the ones that we were most serious about, and we made it a two way street with those teams. One thing my son did after making his decision was email the coaches of the schools that he was most seriously considering (but did not choose) to tell them that he was choosing another school. The response was that both coaches called, wishing him luck, saying that they appreciated the heads up and that he should always keep them in mind. I think that courteous behavior gets courteous behavior in return. As many have said this is a small fraternity of coaches, and word does get around.

Sure, this is a difficult business, with parents trying to get the best situation for their child, and coaches often being the ones telling parents and players that perhaps they need to rethink their situation. However, the fact that it is difficult doesn't mean that players or coaches are given the green light to act rude.