Baseball's Most Untouchable Record?

Yeah, the 511 would be untouchable today.

But so would DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak I think. That takes mental fortitude far beyond anything close to normal.

quote:

Me personally, I'm leaning towards the all-time wins in pitching at 511, but then the 56 consecutive games with a hit is pretty impressive. I just don't know.

Nobody will win 511 games, never ever again.

Maybe someone will get to a 56 game hitting streak, But I doubt it.
Mainly because all they have to do is not pitch to them for one game and it's over.

EH

I'm going with 511.

To break this record in the conventional sense, you need to win and average of 20 games a year for 25.6 years to break this record. If a kid breaks in at 18 years old, he has to average 20 wins a year through age 44.

The only way 511 goes down is if a knuckleballer or other trick pitch pitcher comes in at a very early age (18-20) and is able to pitch every 3rd or 4th day to get 40-50 starts a year, on a good team, such that he can average 25-30 wins for 15 years. If he hits 380-400 wins by age 35 and can pitch every 5th day 7-10 years beyond that, he'd have a chance.

Since they don't teach kids trick pitches that get them to MLB at that early an age, nor would you EVER let a kid with conventional talent throw that much (or want to give him free agent status that young). It simply isn't going to happen in this era.

Some blind squirrel will eventually hit in 57 consecutive games, simply because there are a whole lot more opportunities. In my lifetime, there have been a bunch who have actually got on the radar (in the 30+'s). There never has been any kind of a threat on 511.

That away to break it down there JMoff. I like a man who knows numbers. I agree with all of your points of view. I guess I'll go with the 511. Just think, Randy Johnson is scratching and clawing just to get to 300 right now, and he's been a household name from the beginning. That record just blows my mind.

I have to agree with the 511 victories in this era of 32-34 starts a year and many no decisions since pitchers are limited by pitch count and prolific use of relief specialists. Remember, the 56 straight games is not even Dimaggio's longest personal streak as he hit in 61 straight games in the Pacific Coast league as an 18 year old. There have been a few guys who were not even great hitters such as Benito Santiago and others who have hit in 30 to 35 games. Another record that might be difficult to break after the roid era is Hack Wilson's 191 RBI's in one season set in 1930.

I would expect that Cal Ripken, JR's streak of 2632 consecutive games played will be a streak that will be hard to break. Is it doable, yes. But I don't think it will happen. Players don't play every day; they get days off here and there and I think that is a good thing. Wikipedia lists the top 15. Ripken has 500 more than Gehrig and then the next one is 700 below him with Everett Scott having just over 1300.

511 will be the only record never broken because today's pitchers are too soft to pitch enough to win that many games. 25yrs x20 wins ain't happening.

One time I thought 56 games won't be broken and still think it's tough only because today's media would be make it tough. Not the pitching.

I also think that Nolan Ryans 5714 all time Strike Outs record is pretty safe.

He is still 900 ahead of Randy Johnson (2nd) @ 45 yrs old. No else will come close.

You just stole my thunder fsm. I was going to say Nolan Ryan's strike outs as well. The 511 wins will stand forever. Very few guys even get 20 wins in a season these days. Those guys used to get 30 wins in a season. Almost unthinkable now.

But, Ryan's record will also stand. No way will Johnson catch him and he has been one of the best strikeout pitchers for his whole career. Just don't think it's going to happen.

Definitely Cy Young's 511 wins. Seems absolutely unatainable in this day and age. 20 wins for 20 years only gets you to 400 and that seems impossible.

Cy Young's record seems safe forever. However, 100 years from now I believe Nolan Ryan will still hold all time records.

Nolan Ryan holds another record that appears near impossible to break.

He walked nearly a thousand hitters more than any other pitcher who ever lived. That record (2,795 BB) should last for a long time, probably forever. To put it in perspective the MLB leader in walks last year had 105. It would take 27 years of that to break the record. Ryan walked over 50% more hitters than any other pitcher in Major League history.

Actually the one pitching record that will never be broken, if we actually know it, would be Nolan Ryan’s career pitch count.

By far the most strike outs, by far the most walks, played 27 seasons (also a MLB record), over 600 decisions, his 292 losses are the most in the modern era. His 324 wins are tied for 13th all time. This all means (IMO) that no one has ever come close to throwing as many pitches as Nolan Ryan. I can’t even imagine someone doing that again.

Nolan Ryan's 7 no-hitters also seems unlikely to be broken.

I think it would take two or three pitchers combined to break some of Ryan's endurance records.

With pitchers being protected more and more it is not just the records that won't be challenged. After Randy Johnson, will we see another 300 game winner? How about 30 wins in a season? 25?

I think Ty Cobb's lifetime BA(.367) will prove every bit as difficult to break as Cy Young's lifetime wins is. The best of the modern hitters at hitting for average(Gwynn .338, Pujols .334, Ichiro .331, Helton Boggs Carew .328, Vlad Guerrero .323, Puckett .318 and Clemente .317 are the only players within 50 points of Cobb.

If Nolan Ryan is the modern day endurance king of pitchers than Rickey Henderson has to hold that title for base stealers. His record of 1,406 stolen bases towers above all others and I am surprised how little respect this record gets when talking about unbreakable records.

I don't think Ripken's streak of games played is unbreakable. Someone will try to break it. Miguel Tejada was going for it until he broke his wrist. Had he stayed healthy he would have at least broken Gherig's record if not Ripken's at about 35 years of age.

Tejada's age is currently open for debate but had he drawn close enough the streak would have taken on a life of its own and I doubt any manager would have interfered with it.

I know this; with all of Nolan Ryan's Walks and Strikeouts it had to be hard to stay awake behind him!

Likely, strictly out of fear of what he would do to you did his defense stay on their toes.

Funny thing about records: they are not all based on the same criteria--- Ryan has 300 plus wins but in 27 seasons--- the home run records are skewed because of number of games played by each player.

Number of wins for pitchers nowadays means very little due to fact that pitchers don't go 9 any more---we are lucky to see them get past the 7th inning---Johan Santana is a prime example--how many games has he left with a one or two run lead and then the bullpen blows the game for him---I recall the season Tom Seaver was 11 and 11 with an ERA under 2.00---the team stunk--he was losing 1-0 2-1 etc---You do not have to be CPA to know that numbers can lie

That being said I do not think the 56 game hitting streak will be broken---I think that Randy Johnson may be the last of the 300 game winners---everyone was touting AROD as the next lifetime HR champ but that ain't going to happen--use percentages and see how great Ken Griffey JR was even with all his injuries---

Very interesting stuff---great fodder for a rainy afternoon discussion while sipping a few cold brews with your buddies

I'd have to go with Cy Young at 511 wins but since Ellsbury stole home the other day what about Ty Cobbs career mark of 54 steals of home?

TR, Randy Johnson should of already been at 300 if the Mariner's bullpen could of held up.
I don't know how many leads they blew in the early 90's for Randy.
It would of had to be very frustrating.
I would guess Johnson would have around 315 to 320 wins right now if not more.

EH

No question EH but do you agree he will be the last of the 300 arms

Nolan Ryan walked 2,795 hitters, second place all time is Steve Carlton with 1,833. This difference is amazing. 962 more walks than the pitcher who is second. That is a minimum of ten years of being at the top of the league in walks just to get close.

To compare… Cy young won 511 games. Walter Johnson was second with 417. 5 years of winning 19 would have tied Cy young. Another seemingly impossible record to break is Cy Young’s record of 749 complete games. Warren Spahn in the modern era had 382, about half as many. Bert Blyleven has the most out of those in the recent past at 242. Once again Cy Young had 749 complete games pitched! He was 23 years old when he pitched his first Big League game in 1890 with the Cleveland Spiders. He ended his career in 1911 with the Boston Rustlers. The game has sure changed a lot since then. I’m not sure what those old records mean anymore.

I remember my grandfather complaining about how players in the late 50s couldn’t hold a candle to the guys he played with. I have seen that type of thinking go on with each generation. On the other hand, I’ve always believed that athletes including baseball players keep getting bigger, stronger and more talented. It only makes sense that someone would also gain knowledge and be smarter, too. I believe the great players would have been great players in any era. However, there are more pitchers throwing harder with better stuff today than there were in the old days. And it is normally easier to hit a pitcher who is in his 9th inning than it is to hit a fresh arm throwing gas that a hitter hasn’t seen that day. They figured that one out! It changed the game. It shows up in the record book. I also believe, for the most part, the hitters are better and the players are faster than back in the 1990s, but I have no way of really knowing that for positive. I do remember seeing an old clip of Babe Ruth actually walking up in the box to hit a homerun. That can’t happen with today’s 90 mph average fastball. Anyway, I don’t think that would be possible. Fun stuff to discuss.

Willie Mays is still the greatest player I have ever seen in my life time. Maybe we’re all living in the past.

TR "quote"
No question EH but do you agree he will be the last of the 300 arms. "quote"

Thats what there saying, But it would have to be a very special pitcher that would be allowed to reach 300 nowaday's.
It certainly will not be the fireballer's, there arms won't last.
It would have to be a pitcher that is durable and knows how to pitch in the clutch.
Of course he would have to have a solid team behind them for 20 years.

EH

Or they could be another Nolan Ryan.

Even though Ryan could throw a 100mph.
I don't consider him a fireballer.
Ryan could pitch, ( thats an understatement ).
Had more then 1 pitch.

EH

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Bob Gibsons season ERA record. I think it's unbreakable due to the change in mound height. does anyone agree?

Some other great examples posted.

Cal Ripkin's record is another that will probably stand forever. For one, there is no good reason to break it. A pitcher getting a win is something he strives for with every start. Playing 162 games isn't necessarily something the player or the organization sets as a goal at the beginning of the season. Doing it for 16.3 years straight? Probably no reason to even try unless a player got to 10 early in their career. There's no incentive to get to 10, so probably won't happen.

On 5,714 K's, that is probably just as safe as 511. A pitcher would have to average 250 strike outs/yr for ~23 years. That's averaging 7.7/start over 30-35 starts (I used 32.5/yr) from age 20 to age 43. Most top starters average 7 innings a start, so this is over 1K/inning for 23 years. He has to pitch for 23 years, stay healthy, remain a strike out pitcher, etc.