Batter absolutely on top of the plate

I don't know why you would be against intentionally throwing inside.  The inside line is legally given to the hitter.  But that, in no way, should discourage a pitcher from throwing inside any more than if the hitter were standing as far away from the plate as possible.

Throwing inside is part of the game.  If a player is aggressive enough to stand on top of the plate to take part of what is the pitcher's, the pitcher has a right to be aggressive as well.  

Your boy needs to say something.  There is nothing wrong with respectfully pleading a case.  His pitcher needs the support.   If things are technically legal, then you have to work with the situation.  But, by all means, don't back down or give in.  If you give a kid three free bases, you've at least made him earn them.

A couple of strikes on the inside of the plate might help the batter change his stance a bit.  Nothing worse than getting beaned on the elbow only to have a strike called (of course, you do need a competent umpire to make this call).

As for the double steal in particular, you mention that was "on my son" - did your son make any attempt to throw either runner out?  If an attempt was made, it would have either been behind the batter (which having a right handed batter move towards the plate would benefit) or would be in front of the batter which should have resulted in contact on the plate itself.  Was it just that the catcher made no attempt and therefore no interference?  

You also mentioned stepping on the plate during a swing - my understanding is that this is an out (if during the pitch - not immediately after) and should have been recognized and called.  Not sure how this kid could be a very good hitter and end up stepping on the plate during a swing.

Again, the best way to deal with this is to throw strikes inside and have the catcher execute throws normally - even if that entails the catcher charging through a batter who ends up standing on the plate.  I have heard some different interpretations of what space the batter "owns" (i.e. can they simply stand still within the batters box regardless of other action) but I have never heard of the batter having any rights to occupy the plate after the catcher receives the pitch.

Teaching Elder posted:

I don't know why you would be against intentionally throwing inside.  The inside line is legally given to the hitter.  But that, in no way, should discourage a pitcher from throwing inside any more than if the hitter were standing as far away from the plate as possible.

Throwing inside is part of the game.  If a player is aggressive enough to stand on top of the plate to take part of what is the pitcher's, the pitcher has a right to be aggressive as well.  

Your boy needs to say something.  There is nothing wrong with respectfully pleading a case.  His pitcher needs the support.   If things are technically legal, then you have to work with the situation.  But, by all means, don't back down or give in.  If you give a kid three free bases, you've at least made him earn them.

It's not really throwing inside, it 's more like throwing the normal pitch in the inside corner.  It's the batter's positioning that make it "feel" or "look" like you are throwing inside.  I am in no way saying hit the kid, but the kid - any kid - needs to understand that as they creep closer and closer to the plate, they are simply putting themselves more at risk of getting hit.  If the get too close against a good pitcher, they might actually get hit and simply have it called a strike.  A good pitcher is not going to allow the batter to dictate his pitch selection and placement.

He made the throw to 3B but had to pause and make another step to get farther away from the batter who was standing mostly over the plate (lefty). He finished his swing with his back foot standing on the plate and pretty much stayed as much in the way as possible, whether intentionally or unintentionally (I don't read minds).

I meant deliberately throwing inside with the intent to hit the batter on top of the plate or make him dive out of the way. This is HS and control is often not want we'd like to see.

When an opposing batter crowds or leans, what I do--instead of whining to the umpire--is challenge my team "WHY AREN'T WE DOING IT?"

Nothing like chin music on multiple pitches to recalibrate a hitter . . .

At a HS game last week batter was doing this. With two strikes he got hit on the elbow on a pitch that appeared to be on the inside corner -- umpire called him out, ruling that the pitch was a strike.

In terms of stepping on the plate during a swing, if he swings and misses it's just a strike, but if he makes contact with the ball, the ball is dead and the batter is out.

Again, not to sound like I'm suggesting trying to hurt the batter, but I would suggest having the catcher move into the plate to make the throw and if the batter happens to be there, then sort of run over them.  The batter cannot occupy that space without interference getting called.  My understanding if that the batter has a responsibility not to interfere.  This would include not stepping back in the box and hindering a throw and certainly not exiting the box in such a way as to interfere.  I think the solution in this instance is to ensure the interference call gets made.  No hesitation - just move through space that belongs to you and if you run into the batter then hope the ump make the correct call.

Any umps wish to provide some clarity around batter interference on catcher throws?

At some level, the pitchers need to be able to execute their pitches and not get too rattled when the hitter starts leaning over.  This hitter is legally allowed to toe the line and can legally place body parts in the strike zone.  If he is successful in getting the pitcher to move all his pitches 4-5 inches further out, then he has won the battle.  Even a good fastball on the inside HALF of the plate can prove effective.  

Nuke83 posted:

Nothing like chin music on multiple pitches to recalibrate a hitter . . .

+ 1

freddy77 posted:

When an opposing batter crowds or leans, what I do--instead of whining to the umpire--is challenge my team "WHY AREN'T WE DOING IT?"

Whining is such a pejorative term. By your logic, everyone should crowd the plate and HBP and potentially injuries skyrocket. No thanks.

When the shoe fits and all... but in a way you are correct.  Doing the same thing is not the answer.  Then the game becomes a bush-league farce.   

Depending on the type of hitter, crowding the plate can be a very good and perfectly legal tactic and is used often.  A pull hitter can use it to make sure he doesn't have to swing at pitches away.  A disciplined leadoff type can use it to "shrink the zone" on a pitcher.  Any hitter behind in the count with two strikes can use it to shift some of the advantage back toward the hitter, effectively taking away the outside chase pitch (we preach this to most of our hitters).  Average HS pitchers have difficulty controlling the inside of the plate when a hitter is on top of it (as close as the line allows).  There is nothing illegal about it so I don't know what the catcher or HC would have to say to an umpire.  

Most players who use the tactic are more than willing to take the HBP and it may be worth the opposing HC mentioning before the game to the ump that player x has ten HBP's this year and tends to lean across the plate into the strike zone.  

As far as stepping on the plate, like 2019dad said, swing-and-miss is just a strike.  Hitter is only called out if he puts the ball in play.  As far as interference on a throw, I'll let an umpire chime in on this but I think, generally, there has to be some intent to interfere or movement in a direction that causes interference.  If the pitch takes the batter toward the plate, I believe there is some allowance.  

I still can't get my head around a throw to 3b having any hindrance from a LH batter, no matter how far onto the plate he steps.

Pitching is more that 50% confidence.  Anytime a hitter crowds the plate to the extreme that is being described in this thread he is issuing a challenge to the pitcher.  To be successful, the pitcher has no choice but to throw inside.  If the batter gets hit, so be it.  Any good hitter that crowds the plate understands that there is risk involved.  A good umpire (unfortunately there are not enough of those) understands that too.  A pitcher can't give in to a challenge and expect to be a consistent winner.

Thanks for the responses. All of the above did not change the outcome of the game. My son, and hopefully the HC, will handle this a little better in the future. Lessons learned.

I feel, but I do not know, that the player, as leadoff, was getting on top of the plate as much as possible to shrink the SZ and was perfectly willing to get a HBP. In my experience of HS baseball, the batter usually gets the base on a HBP and the opposing HC THEN decides to confront the umpire that the kid has been crowding the plate all along and made no attempt to get out of the way (which is always too little, too late). This is just my experience.

They also need to introduce a rule saying that if a hitter is hit by a pitch on any sort of protective garment, eg. evoshield elbow guards, that a base is not awarded unless the hit area is not over the plate and the pitch is the fourth ball.   If a player is struck while in the strike zone, a strike is called, just the same as if he had no protective shield.  If he is not in the strike zone but over the plate, a no-pitch is called.

Batty67 posted:

Thanks for the responses. All of the above did not change the outcome of the game. My son, and hopefully the HC, will handle this a little better in the future. Lessons learned.

I feel, but I do not know, that the player, as leadoff, was getting on top of the plate as much as possible to shrink the SZ and was perfectly willing to get a HBP. In my experience of HS baseball, the batter usually gets the base on a HBP and the opposing HC THEN decides to confront the umpire that the kid has been crowding the plate all along and made no attempt to get out of the way (which is always too little, too late). This is just my experience.

I think the only thing that can be "handled" is to make sure your pitchers are comfortable working the inside strike zone.  And, as I mentioned before, call attention to the ump before the game any opposing players who have excessive HBP's which is a sure tell they will lean in on pitches in the zone.  

Catchers need to make their normal throw through.  If batter moves into interference, ump will usually take care of that.  If not, appeal.  If overturned, move on.  If it happens again with same player, umps will be more aware.

cabbagedad posted:

I still can't get my head around a throw to 3b having any hindrance from a LH batter, no matter how far onto the plate he steps.

I'm not saying hindered he hindered the throw legally since there was no contact with the ball. The main point of the OP is relating an experience with a player who stood virtually on top of the plate every single pitch and how to respond. Again, thanks for the feedback.  

Teaching Elder posted:

They also need to introduce a rule saying that if a hitter is hit by a pitch on any sort of protective garment, eg. evoshield elbow guards, that a base is not awarded unless the hit area is not over the plate and the pitch is the fourth ball.   If a player is struck while in the strike zone, a strike is called, just the same as if he had no protective shield.  If he is not in the strike zone but over the plate, a no-pitch is called.

Agreed.

In the situation that is described here, I think the catcher should feel free to say something to the umpire right from the get go.  He should not feel the need to defer to his coach.  Normal conversation between players and umpires has been part of the game forever.  It is a shame that somehow that fact has been lost on many of today's umpires.  Back in the day, I would always talk to the umpires.  Most would tell me what their strike zone was once I learned how to ask.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with conversation between a player and an umpire, as long as it is courteous.  In fact, it can make the game more enjoyable to play.