Batter/Runner, runs over catcher...

IMHO, good call. Will wait to hear from some of the real umps here to see if I'm right.

I'd be willing to bet a case of cold beverage that the parents and coaches were way more concerned about the call than the kids who were playing the game.

Well, the coach for the team whos player I called out, asked me "doesn't the batter have a right to run to the base, I said yes, but I took in to account that the batter had just stood there and then when the catcher went to get the ball, bent over to pick it up, the runner took off and plowed him. Again, if they both would have advanced at the same time and had a minor collision, I wouldn't have called it, but the kid just ran him over, didn't mean to but he did.

Good call.

The batter doesn't have the right to interfere with a fielder in the act of fielding the ball.

There are precendents for the "train wreck" at the plate where both the batter/runner and catcher are heading out of their initial positions and they collide inadvertantly. But as you noted, that didn't apply here.

It sounds like a good call to me. Make sure when you call the interference that you return all runners to their bases at TOP.

7 year olds correct /--- this is an instructional league is it not?---when this happened why not go into an instructional mode rather than worry what the rules say---rules for 7 year olds are meant to be bent in terms of instruction

quote:

Excuse me but where did ANYONE say this was an instructional league? Did you just make that up?
I have to make a call, after I make the call, I can "instruct". But I'd rather talk to the coach and explain it to him, the he can "istruct".

Please don't start this garbage again on this thread. If you have a personal issue with me, PM me, but stop posting your "moral" point of view on a thread that is not asking for it.

Here's an idea, you start your own thread and you can title it "There should be no rules in baseball if you're in a 7 year old instructional league" Then you can banter to your hearts content about what should and should not be called at this age level.

But in the league that I umpire in, we have rules and we have to make calls. Please get that through your head.

wow, what was that about?
some might worry about short fuses working with young kids

Why was cccsdad's last post removed, while bee's & tr's remain?

At 7 years of age the league sure should be instructional

Even at seven years old it's the umpires job to "call the game, as the rules apply", and YES there are basic rules for playing the game at that age, it's not his/her job to "instruct" the players how the game is played. That's the coaches job.

Most 5-8 year old games are limited to one hour, there is just simply not enough time for the umpire to instruct the players how to play the game. Once again that's the coaches job.

As a coach for a 7U-MP team last year, I would talk to the player in the dugout and explain what happened, and hoped the information would stick, by the time they went back on the field to chase Dragonflies. Never was it the umpires responsability to instruct my players how to play the game.... it was on me.

Fun, Yes
Anarchy, NO
You must have rules at that age.

If a player is called out for missing a base, so be it, he'll learn from it... hopefully.

Good call cccsdad

Maybe this post should be moved to www.machinepitchbaseballweb.com. I am sure they have a detailed case book that answers all of these questions.

basic rule of baseball......t-ball to MLB....runner has to give way to the a fielder in the act if fielding a ball........

runner out...

good call regardless of the age of the players

quote:

basic rule of baseball......t-ball to MLB....runner has to give way to the a fielder in the act if fielding a ball........

runner out...

good call regardless of the age of the players

Couple of weeks ago I actually managed to win an 'argument' with an ump on that exact point - runner bowled over 2nd baseman who was in the act of fielding the ball and ump didn't make the interference call but after our discussion he made the correct call. The amazing thing to me though was that the opposing coach proceeded to come out and argue that the runner had a right to the baseline - these are 14 year olds and you'd think someone coaching at this age would at least know the basic rules.

quote:

Originally posted by Glove Man:
Even at seven years old it's the umpires job to "call the game, as the rules apply", and YES there are basic rules for playing the game at that age, it's not his/her job to "instruct" the players how the game is played. That's the coaches job.

Most 5-8 year old games are limited to one hour, there is just simply not enough time for the umpire to instruct the players how to play the game. Once again that's the coaches job.

As a coach for a 7U-MP team last year, I would talk to the player in the dugout and explain what happened, and hoped the information would stick, by the time they went back on the field to chase Dragonflies. Never was it the umpires responsability to instruct my players how to play the game.... it was on me.

Fun, Yes
Anarchy, NO
You must have rules at that age.

If a player is called out for missing a base, so be it, he'll learn from it... hopefully.

Good call cccsdad

Thank you, I've been trying to get that point across to TRhit. You can have rules and enforce them and still teach baseball. He seems to think the two are mutually exclusive.

What you guys are preaching is the reason why kids get to HS without sound fundamentals in the game---

I prefer that kids at 7 thru 9 learn fundamentals and there is no need for umpires---

TEACH THE KIDS THE GAME--IT IS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT WINNING


LOL but then what do I know ? --some call me a dinosaur BUT my LL kids were fundamentally sound

And umpiring a MACHINE PITCH Game---you must be kidding---machines throw strikes if you know how to set them up right---are you umpiring behind the plate?

you're absolutely right.... IT'S NOT ABOUT WINNING!!!!

That's not what we're talking about Tom, geez, get it through your head!

My JOB(as a volunteer coach) was to teach the game and FUNDAMENTALS!!!!!!! to my kids on the team. It's not the umps job, it's MINE!!!! See I can use caps and exclamation marks too, and I threw in bolding to throw you off.

My kids were becoming fundamentally sound AS WELL as learning the rules of the game.... AS THEY PLAYED IT!!!!

BTW, machines do not always throw strikes, after every pitch, the machine, has what hunters call a "kick", which moves the machine ever so slightly every time, the occasional adjusting is then required.

Without rules, you have NO GAME, without umps to enforce those rules why have the game?

quote:

What you guys are preaching is the reason why kids get to HS without sound fundamentals in the game---

That's silly.... let's get back to the fundamentals for you, you have umps and you have coaches, two seperate things here.
1.Umps enforce the rules during GAMES(that's all they do)
2.Coaches TEACH the game during PRACTICE(which is also used to drill, and teach the fundamentals of the game to it's participants, also called "players") and during the GAME.

It's all about learning, FUNDAMENTALS AND RULES CAN COEXIST!!!!!! and they do.... everyday!

To be honest this is about the silliest discussion I've ever been involved in here on the HSBBW!

This entire thread is like splitting hairs on a bald man.

Glove man


another thin skinned texan with atttiude and yelling---


7 year olds need to learn fundamentals not paid umpires behind the plate with a machine pitching---THAT IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE in my mind---not only are you not teaching the kids anything but you are wasting money


Pretty soon the kids getting to HS won't know beans about fun****entals--it is bad enough now

Tom, do me one favor, will you let me know next time you come to Texas, so I know when I can visit CT?

To all of my players that I have ever coached, please forgive me, I now realize that hitting, fielding, throwing, and running were more important than the basic rules, I had it all wrong. If I have ruined your career before it started I sincerly appologize.

I'll see some of you in a few years on Monday and Thursday, when picking up my trash.... oh and Lil' Billy, please remember to hold the onions on that Whopper.

BTW, I don't coach select anymore because most teams play way too many games which limits practice time for the fundamentals.

Here's a suggestion, write your two sentance letter to all the youth organizations explaining why there should be no umps at youth games under 9, and why they are waisting their league money hiring umps. I'm sure they will be more than willing to listen.... especially after they are through laughing.

As far as me being thin skinned, don't judge the condition of my shoes, until you have walked in them.

Glove Man


Consider it closed-

I will never be to Texas and as for your shoes even if they fit I probably wouldnt wear them

By the way my gripe was with the umpire behind the plate in a 7 year old machine pitch league--- That is totally ludicrous in my mind

So anyways, cccsdad, I hope this has helped you. Good call, batter is out.

It's no different than it was 30 years ago, I had umps at my LL games. And I eventually learned to hit, field, run and throw, and pretty well by some accounts.

TRhit:

We have all figured out your bias toward the pitching league. Although you have contributed much in the past, you are not helping here. If you have nothing constructive then don't post to the thread.
Kids learning the rules at this age to no different than pitchers learning balks at 13. Many coaches at this level have no clue about rules but can teach the other aspects of baseball just fine. If the ump calls something then maybe the adult will learn as well as the kids. Just a thought.

MT

Thanx for your judgement=== it is not bias --it is trying to get kids to learn

Just another thought--why pay umps to do pitching machine games--are you kidding me?

If coaches have no clue about the rukle why not hold a series of clinics before the season, like in the winter--is that too freaking logical ?

Maybe I am too basic for you PC correct guys--I am not afraid to hurt feelings if they get it right in the end

Tom, write a letter to LL and all youth assoc's. It is what it is. That's all I'm gonna say.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
another thin skinned texan with atttiude and yelling---

Okay, bee, where is your diatribe against TR's discriminatory remarks? Should he not be banned from the board?

No? Shifting standards?

Was someone banned?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
MT

Thanx for your judgement=== it is not bias --it is trying to get kids to learn

Just another thought--why pay umps to do pitching machine games--are you kidding me?

If coaches have no clue about the rukle why not hold a series of clinics before the season, like in the winter--is that too freaking logical ?

Maybe I am too basic for you PC correct guys--I am not afraid to hurt feelings if they get it right in the end

I have no problem having clinics for coaches preseason. In fact I travel around my area doing exactly that. It doesn't mean that all coaches will come or if they do learn anything. Plus, when you coach kids you spend as much time as possible teaching mechanics or fundimentals and not really rules. No matter how much you teach coaches about rules, things still come up in games and the ump has to make a call. Do that, explain if you have to and move on, no matter the level.
Trust me I'm far from a PC, feel good guy. I simply feel if you aren't adding to the conversation then don't join. I don't think anywhere in the tread it was mentioned that they were paying umps in PM. Maybe they are and I'm not going back to check but whether unpaid or paid it makes no difference. They are simply trying to avoid coaches standing on the field trying to figure out what calls to make and how.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
What you guys are preaching is the reason why kids get to HS without sound fundamentals in the game---

I prefer that kids at 7 thru 9 learn fundamentals and there is no need for umpires---

TEACH THE KIDS THE GAME--IT IS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT WINNING


LOL but then what do I know ? --some call me a dinosaur BUT my LL kids were fundamentally sound

And umpiring a MACHINE PITCH Game---you must be kidding---machines throw strikes if you know how to set them up right---are you umpiring behind the plate?

No what you are preaching is the reason why kids have no fundimentals. You make no sense, you say don't enforce rules, which means kids, don't lear the game, which means they don't learn fundimentals. But in your world, letting kids run over eachother, letting them stay on base when they hit a fly ball and the ball is caugh, means they are learning fundimentals.

I think you've got that all bass ackwards.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
MT

Thanx for your judgement=== it is not bias --it is trying to get kids to learn

Just another thought--why pay umps to do pitching machine games--are you kidding me?

If coaches have no clue about the rukle why not hold a series of clinics before the season, like in the winter--is that too freaking logical ?

Maybe I am too basic for you PC correct guys--I am not afraid to hurt feelings if they get it right in the end

Who said there weren't any clinics. You are just making **** up. You know nothing about our league and how it's run. You are just making assumptions based off of your stupidity.

I am not lecturing

CCCS you sent me the email

And yes they do get paid MT^---it is in his email to me

I just think what they are doing is ludicrous--my opinion---

c's, you have a PM.

TRhit, tell me how you would handle this.

In you're league, a player swings and misses 3 times. What do you do? Does he continue to swing until he gets a hit, or do you say, "okay, it's the next batters turn"?

What about the kid that hits the ball and is thrown out at 1st, does he get to stay at first?

If so, explain to me what fundamentals you've just taught these players?

Crickets chirp.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

You are so big on fundamentals, explain to all of us poor morons how teaching a kid that he's not really out when he strikes out???

Or that if you field the ball and throw it to first before the batter/runner reaches first, the batter/runner isn't really out. Wait I'm sure in your league the defensive team isn't allowed to field the ball and throw the runner out.

I guess in your league everyone wants to be the visitor because under your guidlines they are the only ones that would get to hit, since, in your league, you shouldn't call the batter/runner out.

is this what a box score in your league looks like.


2523 x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x x

cccsdad

I never used the term moron

We are talking about a 7 yr old trying to decide which way to run not what you are talking about---typical tapdancing from one who is totally unsure of himself

Let me answer your inane questions:
01---three swings and misses he is out--he understands that because we taught him
02---thrown out at first--he is out--why would he remain at first

I do not understand yourlogic


Box score for 7 year olds---you must be kidding--it sure says lot as to where you lack of common sense is---do they post them in the papers?


As for your remarks regarding defense you continue to show your lack of knowledge and deep lack of undertsanding of the basics of the game

You know what---you are not even arguing logically


Why dont you send me another "please stop" email ?---at least I can talk in public without secret messages

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
cccsdad



Let me answer your inane questions:
01---three swings and misses he is out--he understands that because we taught him
02---thrown out at first--he is out--why would he remain at first

I do not understand yourlogic


Box score for 7 year olds---you must be kidding--it sure says lot as to where you lack of common sense is---do they post them in the papers?


As for your remarks regarding defense you continue to show your lack of knowledge and deep lack of undertsanding of the basics of the game

Ah, ya might want to re-read what I posted there slicko. Me thinks TRhit don't read too good.

Shall I post all your comments about how silly it is to have umpires in a 7 year old machine pitch league, and then copy and paste your emial to me stating that you used umpires in the 7 year old league that you ran?

Or should I cut and paste where you scoffed at me for calling a 7 year old out, then we can all read what you said above about calling them out?

Also, pea head, the box score was meant as a joke, but you aint smuuurt enough to get it, is ya?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
At 7 years of age the league sure should be instructional

quote:

At 7 years of age the league sure should be instructional

quote:

I prefer that kids at 7 thru 9 learn fundamentals and there is no need for umpires---

Now, tell me why you have umpires in your 7 year old league again?????