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Link to an interesting opinion piece from the Atlantic from a couple years ago about MLB pitchers intentionally throwing at batters.
My son is both a pitcher who has pitched a lot at all levels. He is also a hitter who switch hits. He wears the protective gear as a hitter to avoid being hurt, especially on his pitching elbow, not to lean in.
As a coach and a dad, I think all pitchers should wear chest and head protection and all batters should wear protection. Let's be honest. Very few high school batters are willing to lean in on your son or mine. My son has been hit 10 times so far and does not like it but also does not feel that most are trying to hit him. They are trying to pitch around him and make him get himself out and the pitchers just throw the curve or fastball in a little too close. He crowds the plate not to draw walks but because the umpires are not the best and he loves inside pitching so he hopes the pitcher will try to pitch inside.
Hitting batters is part of the game, intentional or unintentional, but it should never be at the head. Throw inside waist high or down to move a batter back but never up to move a batter back. I believe any pitcher who is deemed to throw at a batter's head intentionally should be suspended for a long time. No place in baseball.
I think batters need to be protected from being thrown at but many hitters do lean into pitches, even into the strike zone and rarely get called back. I would like it not counting as a HP if the ball is inside the batters box line.
If it goes through the batters box it is a bad pitch but I think inside edge to the inside line of the box should be fair game. However you got to have the command for that, if one in three inside pitches go through the box (occasionally is ok but not often) you can't pitch inside.
RoadRunner posted:
- I don’t know of any hitters that can intentionally bat the ball into the pitcher.
- I wish there was protective gear for pitchers, especially their heads.
- I never like to see anyone injured.
There are protective hats designed for pitchers. They are pretty light weight and approved by mlb. Some pitchers in pro ball wear them but 99% don't want to do that.
Dominik85 posted:RoadRunner posted:
- I don’t know of any hitters that can intentionally bat the ball into the pitcher.
- I wish there was protective gear for pitchers, especially their heads.
- I never like to see anyone injured.
There are protective hats designed for pitchers. They are pretty light weight and approved by mlb. Some pitchers in pro ball wear them but 99% don't want to do that.
Aware. But if the rules do not mandate, then guys won’t use it, which is the same end result as not having it. Remember when batters weren’t required to wear helmets?
What is the fastest pitch that has hit you in the head? While pitching inside is part of the game, its easy to post about a kid getting hit by a 90+ fastball. Its another thing to be on the receiving end. How often do you volunteer to stand in for a pitcher that is learning to work the inside part of the plate. My suggestion is that you volunteer to have your pitchers who throw 85 plus work on 6 inches up and 6 inches in with you in the batters box with your back toe at 12 inches.
In your game of one upping your opponent, you are going to get a kid hurt or worse. The penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is an ejection and maybe another game. In a tournament - so what, its a different association the next week.
A coach in our conference had an (SEC Commit)pitcher hit 3 batters in an inning, one in the head, because a player hit his first high school home run and was a little excited a week earlier
So how should our players retaliate?
I am not advocating retaliation ....example this was last night. 2018 threw inside a bit because they are on the plate. The pitch hits the knob of the bat and the high school ump gives first base..... our coach came out and asked the ump if he really though the kid got hit with 94 and strolled down to first base.... Next batter all geared up ( a D1 commit) does the fake get out of the way lean in on a pitch and lets it hit the guard. that's taking an unfair advantage and that should be stopped. But in little league, I mean high school, it's all about player safety
An as far as me standing in the box as a pitcher is learning to throw inside , nope I'm not stupid.
cabbage1 posted:What is the fastest pitch that has hit you in the head? While pitching inside is part of the game, its easy to post about a kid getting hit by a 90+ fastball. Its another thing to be on the receiving end. How often do you volunteer to stand in for a pitcher that is learning to work the inside part of the plate. My suggestion is that you volunteer to have your pitchers who throw 85 plus work on 6 inches up and 6 inches in with you in the batters box with your back toe at 12 inches.
In your game of one upping your opponent, you are going to get a kid hurt or worse. The penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is an ejection and maybe another game. In a tournament - so what, its a different association the next week.
A coach in our conference had an (SEC Commit)pitcher hit 3 batters in an inning, one in the head, because a player hit his first high school home run and was a little excited a week earlier
So how should our players retaliate?
Gotta own the inside.
bacdorslider posted:I am not advocating retaliation ....example this was last night. 2018 threw inside a bit because they are on the plate. The pitch hits the knob of the bat and the high school ump gives first base..... our coach came out and asked the ump if he really though the kid got hit with 94 and strolled down to first base.... Next batter all geared up ( a D1 commit) does the fake get out of the way lean in on a pitch and lets it hit the guard. that's taking an unfair advantage and that should be stopped. But in little league, I mean high school, it's all about player safety
An as far as me standing in the box as a pitcher is learning to throw inside , nope I'm not stupid.
On the first batter, not real sure what you are trying to point out other than the umpire missed the call. My kid got brushed with a ball on the jersey and got a free bag. Opposing coach said if the kid had been hit, he'd be on the ground. I've seen lots of hit batters where contact was nominal, so argue bad call all you want but don't have folks complaining that the kid isn't writhing in pain and therefore does not deserve a base.
On the second batter, I assume the ball was not in the strike zone when contact occurred. If you kid is throwing inside trying to back the hitter up - despite the batter taking a legal stance - and perhaps throws the occasional curve ball, AND you kid is throwing 90+, then there is not a whole lot of time to "vacate". Try throwing inside a a tad lower - the elbow doesn't really take up that much room. Assuming it missed the strike zone, I say it was a bad pitch. Try six inches lower.
You are arguing that your son cannot instill sufficient fear of injury by throwing inside due to an elbow guard not being disallowed. However, you seem fine with some kid taking one off his exposed elbow at 90+ and risking a career ending injury (displaced radial head fracture requiring surgery).
There are rules in place that address these issues. The batter must make an effort to avoid getting hit. If a better is struck within the strike zone, no HBP will be awarded. If the pitcher throws a 90+ fastball at the hitters elbow outside of the strike zone and the hitter cannot react quick enough, they get the base.
Just another little league washout.
2017LHPscrewball posted:bacdorslider posted:I am not advocating retaliation ....example this was last night. 2018 threw inside a bit because they are on the plate. The pitch hits the knob of the bat and the high school ump gives first base..... our coach came out and asked the ump if he really though the kid got hit with 94 and strolled down to first base.... Next batter all geared up ( a D1 commit) does the fake get out of the way lean in on a pitch and lets it hit the guard. that's taking an unfair advantage and that should be stopped. But in little league, I mean high school, it's all about player safety
An as far as me standing in the box as a pitcher is learning to throw inside , nope I'm not stupid.
On the first batter, not real sure what you are trying to point out other than the umpire missed the call. My kid got brushed with a ball on the jersey and got a free bag. Opposing coach said if the kid had been hit, he'd be on the ground. I've seen lots of hit batters where contact was nominal, so argue bad call all you want but don't have folks complaining that the kid isn't writhing in pain and therefore does not deserve a base.
On the second batter, I assume the ball was not in the strike zone when contact occurred. If you kid is throwing inside trying to back the hitter up - despite the batter taking a legal stance - and perhaps throws the occasional curve ball, AND you kid is throwing 90+, then there is not a whole lot of time to "vacate". Try throwing inside a a tad lower - the elbow doesn't really take up that much room. Assuming it missed the strike zone, I say it was a bad pitch. Try six inches lower.
You are arguing that your son cannot instill sufficient fear of injury by throwing inside due to an elbow guard not being disallowed. However, you seem fine with some kid taking one off his exposed elbow at 90+ and risking a career ending injury (displaced radial head fracture requiring surgery).
There are rules in place that address these issues. The batter must make an effort to avoid getting hit. If a better is struck within the strike zone, no HBP will be awarded. If the pitcher throws a 90+ fastball at the hitters elbow outside of the strike zone and the hitter cannot react quick enough, they get the base.
I think the point was that it either hit the knob of the bat or it hit the kid's hand. 94mph fastball to the hand? You don't just shake that off and take your base. Of course, a smart batter would do this:
2017LHPscrewball posted:bacdorslider posted:I am not advocating retaliation ....example this was last night. 2018 threw inside a bit because they are on the plate. The pitch hits the knob of the bat and the high school ump gives first base..... our coach came out and asked the ump if he really though the kid got hit with 94 and strolled down to first base.... Next batter all geared up ( a D1 commit) does the fake get out of the way lean in on a pitch and lets it hit the guard. that's taking an unfair advantage and that should be stopped. But in little league, I mean high school, it's all about player safety
An as far as me standing in the box as a pitcher is learning to throw inside , nope I'm not stupid.
On the first batter, not real sure what you are trying to point out other than the umpire missed the call. My kid got brushed with a ball on the jersey and got a free bag. Opposing coach said if the kid had been hit, he'd be on the ground. I've seen lots of hit batters where contact was nominal, so argue bad call all you want but don't have folks complaining that the kid isn't writhing in pain and therefore does not deserve a base.
On the second batter, I assume the ball was not in the strike zone when contact occurred. If you kid is throwing inside trying to back the hitter up - despite the batter taking a legal stance - and perhaps throws the occasional curve ball, AND you kid is throwing 90+, then there is not a whole lot of time to "vacate". Try throwing inside a a tad lower - the elbow doesn't really take up that much room. Assuming it missed the strike zone, I say it was a bad pitch. Try six inches lower.
You are arguing that your son cannot instill sufficient fear of injury by throwing inside due to an elbow guard not being disallowed. However, you seem fine with some kid taking one off his exposed elbow at 90+ and risking a career ending injury (displaced radial head fracture requiring surgery).
There are rules in place that address these issues. The batter must make an effort to avoid getting hit. If a better is struck within the strike zone, no HBP will be awarded. If the pitcher throws a 90+ fastball at the hitters elbow outside of the strike zone and the hitter cannot react quick enough, they get the base.
Well the first batter , that was clearly a foul ball, the second batter dipped and was hit inside the right arm, not the left arm. the pitch was not a terrible pitch. If you want to to say that i feel its fair for a pitcher to instill fear into a batter then yes by all means. the pitcher is using his athletic abilities not hiding behind gear, ... I mean from the 100% of the batters hit how many are called back for leaning in 5% the pitcher has the ball the batter has the bat. s far as batters not having the ability to react... oh well
cabbage1 posted:Just another little league washout.
whats that mean?
Hope that kid is OK - looks like it really hurt. Although he did seem to recover. I will admit that the gear lets some kids stand motionless and "wear it" and it has probably done wonders for some kids hanging in on some nasty curveballs, but I think the emphasis on requiring the batter to make an effort is certainly a step in the right direction. There is a long history of high school kids who excel at getting hit (not to be confused with getting a hit). I know pitching has gotten a whole lot faster on average over the past 50 years, but not real sure whether the bone density of the average high schooler's elbow has kept pace.
chicks dig the long ball .. not the strikeout.... I think that has something to do with the gear
A reply to "gotta own the inside" comment. Ted Willams said "the history of baseball is written on the inside half of the plate". He wasn't referring to throwing inside at guys heads.
You throw inside, to set up the outside. If you miss over the inside half of the plate, you will get murdered.
To be successful as a pitcher, you have to do two things
1) Disrupt timing (Warren Spahn)
2) Get hitters to swing at bad pitches (Rogers Hornsby who got it from Honus Wagner) the reverse logic.
A well located off speed is more effective than a fastball 18 inches off the plate. No one was afraid of Greg Maddux and he did alright.
Nolan Ryan only hit 158 batters in 22575 batters faced or 1 every 140 batters faced
Randy Johnson 1 every 90
Roger Clemens 1 every 128
Maddux 1 every 148
Warren Spahn - 42 out of 21547 batters faced. That's 1 out of every 513. He seamed to do all right.
If you need to use fear in High School baseball to challenge hitters you won't make it at the next level. In the Power 5 Conferences and the Minor Leagues, every team has 10 guys who can top 90. So throwing in and hitting a player is just going to get one of your teammates drilled.
Only a failed little league player would suggest owning the inside. - you have to pitch inside to set up the outside.
cabbage1 posted:A reply to "gotta own the inside" comment. Ted Willams said "the history of baseball is written on the inside half of the plate". He wasn't referring to throwing inside at guys heads.
You throw inside, to set up the outside. If you miss over the inside half of the plate, you will get murdered.
To be successful as a pitcher, you have to do two things
1) Disrupt timing (Warren Spahn)
2) Get hitters to swing at bad pitches (Rogers Hornsby who got it from Honus Wagner) the reverse logic.
A well located off speed is more effective than a fastball 18 inches off the plate. No one was afraid of Greg Maddux and he did alright.
Nolan Ryan only hit 158 batters in 22575 batters faced or 1 every 140 batters faced
Randy Johnson 1 every 90
Roger Clemens 1 every 128
Maddux 1 every 148
Warren Spahn - 42 out of 21547 batters faced. That's 1 out of every 513. He seamed to do all right.
If you need to use fear in High School baseball to challenge hitters you won't make it at the next level. In the Power 5 Conferences and the Minor Leagues, every team has 10 guys who can top 90. So throwing in and hitting a player is just going to get one of your teammates drilled.
Only a failed little league player would suggest owning the inside. - you have to pitch inside to set up the outside.
Let's see. "Failed Little Leaguer" and "Little League washout?" OK. *eye rolling*
Maybe fear is not the right word, as i keep saying over and over , i am not advocating head hunting , or retaliation, those were your comments. Maybe own the inside and having respect for the pitchers inside pitch. Crowding and gearing up to take an unfair advantage is not the same thi g as a guy wearing a shin guard for foul balls. Did you not see bonds play
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Last season my son had a good game against a local non conference high school team. HR, 2 Doubles, 6 RBI and the walk off hit. We played the same team this year and the pitcher threw at his head THREE times. Worst one was after the coaches called a mound visit and then he pitcher threw at him twice immediately after. When he got on first the first baseman told my son “he said he was going to hit you the whole bus ride here”. As a parent it is concerning when they are throwing at players heads, that is not a little rivalry or sports justice or whatever, that is irresponsible and dangerous.
Full disclosure my son did say the first two were dirty, the third time he might have instigated it when he winked at the pitcher.
The pitcher and coach should have been removed from the game.
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Earl Weaver was 100% correct when it came to bean ball wars. He didn't want to get into them because he believed his teams were better than the next team and he didn't want his guys hurt. I think it shows you don't think your guys can out hit the other team if you start one. I tend to believe that phrases like own the inside or intimidate are thrown out by guys who don't have to step in the box or if they do are expected to do nothing because they can't hit. They never have to wear it if they hit someone. I know the good hitters in the lineup don't enjoy wearing one because their pitcher was trying to play tough guy.
I always thought the Evoshield gear was just for show. I didn't know how much it got into pitchers minds. I am now going to advise my sons to armor up as much as possible when they hit.