Batting average

I never thought about it but you may be on to something! A new approach to getting your son to the next level! Yes, I was the scorekeeper for my son's high school baseball team and his summer team and he DID have the highest batting average!! I thought it was all the money I was spending on batting lessons! Could it be that instead of paying for batting lessons, maybe our money would be better spent in buying a scorers book and learning the rules!
Fungo

I have only read your posts here in the pre-high school forum, but it certainly seems that you have some real negative experiences with baseball at this age level.

Nothing in life is perfect. I know I am learning that more and more each day. In the past I have dwelled on the negative and it has hurt me both emotionally and financially.

Perhaps we are products of our "Bad News Sells" society.

My son also had the highest average on the team, most doubles, most triples, 46 rbi's, 54 Runs scored, lead the team in on base % and, sluugging % and had 62 hits. Now he couldn't hit a tied dog... but he is working hard and getting better.

I was not the score keeper, but I think he really liked me.

Innocent Bystander, I make light of it. But your observation usually rings true and it is frustrating. But those things are gauges anyway, just like the stopwatch and radar gun. All of the inaccuracies get sniffed out in the end by the folks whose opinions count.

O42

Cong, you might be on to something. I've been sick for a couple of days, I'll use that as my excuse for being negative. I'll try to clean up my act. Actually I really appreciate all the work the score keepers do. They've always been good to my sons. And I believe that most are pretty straight but I have heard some funny stories. I'll see if I can get Fungo to teach me how to keep the book.

It has been my experience that a number of parents/coaches place entirely too much emphasis on the scorebook and player stats in youth baseball. Being a fan, I am aware baseball is a game of numbers and it is fun to try and compare player's "numbers" at the professional levels. If we even try to compare different decades of professional baseball many an argument can be made that it isn't possible due to any number of factors. Youth baseball should be all about fundementals and developing a love and understanding of the game, not ERA's, OBP's, etc... As a coach, when I hear little Billy had a .875 BA last year in T-ball I only know one thing for sure... and it doesn't have anything to do with little Billy.

quote:

Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:
I'll try to clean up my act.

You're representing the Buckeye state....straighten up and fly straight! And lighten up.

Regarding score keepers; I kept our book for the past 2 years and was actually harder on my son's hits and more generous for the others. So there!

Oh and another thing, for what it's worth, we NEVER figured out their AVG, OBP, Slug %, etc. They're pretty much meaningless.

Some very good coaches told me long ago that in youth baseball, stats are worthless. They never looked at them and never wanted them compiled or distributed. He said all you needed to do was watch the games to be able to tell who could play and who could not.

I have come to absolutely agree.

WOW! First Fungo and now Beezer? Two guys that I immediately liked from reading your post's and I post a stupid thread like that! Talk about starting off on the wrong foot, sticking my foot in my mouth, whatever. I am SO sorry! I should have known that there are a lot of score keepers on here. I DO appreciate all your hard work, dedication and love for the game. I just thought it might be a topic that a lot of parents could relate to.

quote:

Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:
WOW! First Fungo and now Beezer?

It's hard to convey even using icons but my "so there" post was meant to be funny.

Innocent Bystander,
Mine was tongue in cheek too. I apologize. I agree that parents do juggle the books a little. To separate myself from the mix, I would ask the coach how to score a particular play if there was any doubt. I always felt as if it was HIS team and I had no problem with him having the final say.
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
Mine was tongue in cheek too.

Sheesh...ya big bully!

High school stats and youth stats are most often not worth the paper they are written on.....

And most often it is the well intentioned home team scorekeeper who is at the core of the problem.

The basic differences between something as basic as a FC and a hit get erased based on who is doing the book and the level of scoring ability that they have.

Often I read in the paper about a game I umpired and I have to wonder if it was the same game I attended. A player is reported as going 3-4 when at best it was 1-4 with more errors than hits. Does it harm anything? probably not....but when a parent sends out letters saying the player hits .600....something is suspect....and most college coaches discount HS stats greatly......

Even the best intentioned scorekeepers catch heat from parents to lean in the team favor.....I would not want their job........but Im glad someone has the commitment to the kids to do it....

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:
Even the best intentioned scorekeepers catch heat from parents to lean in the team favor.....

Every now and then parents would ask me how I scored something. What difference does it make? It doesn't matter if I scored it a 1B, FC or E6. Is he on base? That's all I care about really. Having said that, I did try to be as fair as possible.

Innocent Bystander - you have a PM

quote:

by beezer: parents would ask me how I scored something. What difference does it make? It doesn't matter if . . . .

- Oh My

are you ever in for a rude awakening in hs

in YOUR area conferences, some of even the most tenured/experienced hs coaches
will wait as long as possible (even approaching mid-season) to release or reply to
the newspapers request for their stats - - - why . . . you ask??


a few reasons


1) the newspaper's all-county team selections are "stat driven" period

2) a coach KNOWS a few of his own "star" players are comparable to players at other schools,
and he's hesitant to post the stat's only to find other coaches fudged stats -
now his guys are waaay down the list - -
if he waits, his guys WILL be near similar players from opposing schools


there have been cases where a guy's BA jumped .150 points in a week (all games that week being rained out) - - -
and it can get kinda embarrassing -

especially tough is shaving a pitcher's ERA
(upon review of his book finds many hits that should have been errors)

for his hitters, he'll find many errors that should have been hits
(including games where the guy had 5 hits in 3 at bats)

ps - don't be hard on your kid in the scorebook



.

Hello,

From one who has scored college, high school, travel and rec league baseball, I would observe that most folks do not "cook" the books. The reason for less credibility being given to stats earned below the collegiate level maight have more to do with the level of pitching faced by batters, at younger ages. With that said, unless a kid lives below the Mendosa line during high school there is not much to gain in the stats.

We always kept team stats independently, as a motivator and as way to jog memory..........\
I was amazed one year when the scorekeeper's son had nearly 70(BA)pts more than we had recorded.
Every error went his way.

Hit .455 and you're a stud, .385 makes you a solid contributor.

This is one, among many other reasons, that college coaches view h.s. stats with caution.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
in YOUR area conferences, some of even the most tenured/experienced hs coaches
will wait as long as possible (even approaching mid-season) to release or reply to
the newspapers request for their stats

Sometimes I think a couple of those schools are on mandatory gag orders.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
especially tough is shaving a pitcher's ERA
(upon review of his book finds many hits that should have been errors)

Did I ever mention that my daughter is the pitcher? I think her stats were a bit "off" for other reasons....just my $.02.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
ps - don't be hard on your kid in the scorebook

I'm not hard on him, I just erred on the conservative side in case anybody ever questioned my methods. If it was close and could go either way, I probably scored it as an E.

Stats don't lie. If stats are kept correctly game by game.

quote:

Originally posted by Powerhitter2:
Stats don't lie. If stats are kept correctly game by game.

I think the term "correctly" was the whole point of this thread. And to add to that would be how the coach uses that information.

Powerhitter2

Stats may not lie, but even when they are kept 100% correctly they do not tell the whole story.

10 HRs on a 310 field is not equal to 10 HRs on a 350 field

A .350 average average against top pitching does not equal a .350 BA against weak pitching.

Numbers are numbers. The value is dependent on all things being equal, at this level they seldom are.

Innocent Bystander

You are right. There are scorekeepers who can keep score - and some who just can't seem to do it accurately. But, hey don't sweat the small stuff. There will be plenty of things to bite your nails over. This is not one of them.

A kid with a great (but padded) batting average is not going to be able to fool those college scouts. They are a whole lot more savvy than folks give them credit for.

I agree that there is some judgement in what is a hit and what isn't. And depending on who is the scorekeeping determines what it your batting average is. I coach 13 year olds and IMO batting average is overrated compared to on base percentage. If the league is competitive you are going to have to earn your way on to base.

I believe the old saying goes something like this ... you've got lies, then **** lies, then statistics IMO

Jeter stinks if you are a stats guy ... what other ss throws out Giambi from between home & 1st ???

quote:

Originally posted by ballcoach33:
I coach 13 year olds and IMO batting average is overrated compared to on base percentage. If the league is competitive you are going to have to earn your way on to base.

I agree completely but that's assuming it's kept (scored) correctly as well.

ScoreKeeping is a thankless job...my wife did it for 4 years. My we suggest to you that every parent is sure-"that's a hit, right?" There was a great qoute in a score keeping book about the importance of doing it....the importance increases as the age of the player decreases.

piaa_ump

quote:

Often I read in the paper about a game I umpired and I have to wonder if it was the same game I attended.

That's funny!

We had a HS dad that kept the unofficial stats when my son was a SO. He bought the little palm pilot with the program that figured everything, then started handing printouts to everyone about the 4th week. It became a standing joke. His son and son's friends were STUDS! Once I was sitting near him and a little dribbler was hit right through his son's (the pitcher's) legs. It was fun to see him agonize with his cronies over whether it was a hit or an error against
his son. He couldn't come up with any scenario that would help his son's stats.

Last year I kept stats on my son's pitching out of self-defense. All those questionnaires for college want to know the numbers, even if they're not official. We had a FR team equipment manager, who kept the books, bless his heart, didn't know much about baseball.
He'd write down whatever the boys on the bench told him. We had a team with 20 SR's and 2 JR's. My JR son
is quiet and didn't want to show-up SR's, but he was glad we kept stats that were more realistic. Hopefully I didn't lean too far the other way!

The only places I see equality is in tee ball and MLB. The are always variable's in this game. You hit a homerun today, it may be 300 feet or 400 ft and tomorrow you hit a long fly out to dead center 410 feet.
I saw a high school game last night and 1 kid had a solid single, a double to the base of the fence and a hard ground out to 2b. In todyas paper it says he was 3 for 3.
Somebody scored that 4-3 play a little wrong. As long as some parents kid isn't hitting .680 while the rest of the league is hittng .350, a few mis-judgements aren't going to make a big difference.
Talent will be sought and found.