Batting Out of Order, Batters Swapped -- NFHS

If the error was detected before the first pitch to B8, B8 would have been declared out for failing to bat in his proper turn after B7, and if there had been less than two outs, B6 would have been removed from first base.

B9 leads off the next inning.

If the error was detected after the first pitch to B8 but before his at bat concluded, B7 would have batted again--why? because he follows B6 in the batting order--and he would have assumed the ball-strike count at that time.

Don't worry about a distinction between completely skipping a batter and switching places. There isn't one. B6 stepping in after B7 flied out was just a second instance of batting out of order. The first instance was nullified by the first pitch to B6.

No matter what happens, the proper batter is always the one that follows the last batter, and if there is a proper appeal, the proper batter is the one called out, to be followed by the batter after him in the lineup. Thus, only the last two batters are ever relevant to the appeal.

The thing to remember is that it's better to think of this as MYTAB (missing your turn at bat.) The batter that misses his turn is always the one called out, and since he's out, the one following is now the proper batter.

In your case, B7 batted in place of B6. If a proper appeal had happened after the fly out (before a play or pitch to the next batter) then B6 (the proper batter) would have been called out, and B7 (the one that follows the proper batter) would have batted (again, in this case.)

Since they didn't do that, the first pitch to B6 legalized B7's at-bat...but since B7 was legalized, B8 should have been the proper batter, and B6 is now an improper batter, drawing a walk. If the appeal happened immediately, then B8 is declared out, all runners advancing on the walk return, and we resume with B9. If the appeal occurred during B8's at-bat, B6 is legalized, making B7 the proper batter, and he replaces B8 in the box.

Yeah. It's fairly straightforward as long as you remember that the offense is not batting out of order; it's failing to bat in the proper order. 

The guilty party is not the one who did bat, but the one who should have batted.  

Thanks for the replies.  Very helpful. 

Curious potential issue based on the comment, "If the appeal occurred during B8's at-bat, B6 is legalized, making B7 the proper batter, and he replaces B8 in the box."  What if B7 had reached base?

B5 - out

B7 - single

B6 - walk

B8 - takes a strike and a ball for a 1-1 count.  Defense appeals batter out of order.  Pitching to B8 had legitimized B6's place in the order.  Thus, the legal batter is now B7, per Matt's reply ... but B7 is on base due to his legalized batting out of order.  What then?  Is B7 forced to vacate his base and an out recorded?  Is a pinch runner allowed?  I doubt I'll ever see this happen, but I'm curious.

67L48 posted:

Thanks for the replies.  Very helpful. 

Curious potential issue based on the comment, "If the appeal occurred during B8's at-bat, B6 is legalized, making B7 the proper batter, and he replaces B8 in the box."  What if B7 had reached base?

B5 - out

B7 - single

B6 - walk

B8 - takes a strike and a ball for a 1-1 count.  Defense appeals batter out of order.  Pitching to B8 had legitimized B6's place in the order.  Thus, the legal batter is now B7, per Matt's reply ... but B7 is on base due to his legalized batting out of order.  What then?  Is B7 forced to vacate his base and an out recorded?  Is a pinch runner allowed?  I doubt I'll ever see this happen, but I'm curious.

If the normal proper batter is on base, he is skipped and the next batter is proper, making the proper batter...(wait for it...) B8. Thus, you are in order in this situation.

One somewhat "interesting wrinkle" is if the defense decides to intentionally walk the current batter...  Since in NFHS an intentional walk is a "time" followed by base award and putting the ball back in play it can thwart the offense's plan to put the proper batter up there.  Defensive coach realizes offense is BOO, but his pitcher has already thrown a pitch. So if he calls time, requests IBB, then when ball is put back in play if he calls time again he can request the out for BOO.  And has Matt points out - he better make sure he "knows" which batter is going to be the proper batter; otherwise, he could be placing the proper batter on base.  

In the last scenario, if a batter is intentionally walked, even though a pitch wasn't thrown, it is considered a play, therefore, making B7's at bat legal. Then we would revert back to the original situation, correct?

NavyChiefBlue posted:

In the last scenario, if a batter is intentionally walked, even though a pitch wasn't thrown, it is considered a play, therefore, making B7's at bat legal. Then we would revert back to the original situation, correct?

 

If B7 is BOO, and intentionally walked, the defense can appeal.  Whoever didn't bat is out, B7 is removed from the base, and whoever bats after the batter who is out comes up to the plate.

If B6 is BOO, and then B7 is intentionally walked (with or without a pitch), B6 is legitimized, B7 is legal and B8 bats.

Out of order rules are pretty much the same as softball and other ball and stick games.  It is up to the coach or score keeper to bring it up the PUs attention.  The PU may be aware of a batter batting out of order but doesn't have to enforce it unless there is an appeal.  

mikezois posted:

Out of order rules are pretty much the same as softball and other ball and stick games.  It is up to the coach or score keeper to bring it up the PUs attention.  The PU may be aware of a batter batting out of order but doesn't have to enforce it unless there is an appeal.  

Mike, 

One quibble: Failing to bat in one's proper turn is an appeal play.  As with other appeal plays, the umpire shall not  call attention to the issue unless there is an appeal. 

Pretty much what I said.  There must be an appeal.  

mikezois posted:

Pretty much what I said.  There must be an appeal.  

Pretty much, but not quite.

You said the ump doesn't have to enforce it unless there is an appeal. That phrasing leaves open the possibility that maybe an ump could enforce it without an appeal, which would be wrong.  It is described in the rules as an appeal play, which means we stay out of it unless asked to make a ruling.

OK, it was implied but you got me there....

mikezois posted:

Out of order rules are pretty much the same as softball and other ball and stick games.  It is up to the coach or score keeper to bring it up the PUs attention.  The PU may be aware of a batter batting out of order but doesn't have to enforce it unless there is an appeal.  

Coach only. Score keepers can bring it up with the coach but they can't appeal directly to an umpire.