BBCOR Bats

Oh, I welcome the change. It was long overdue. I applaud it.

There has to be a problem... I agree with you

It's pretty simple actually...

The players who could hit, will still hit with BBCOR.

There will be a lot less "monster" homeruns coming from young HS Age players.

It's about perspective.

Of course now people will just assume the pitching is getting better...because now a fisted ball of the handle is usually going to be an out..instead of a single like it might have been with such forgiving bats.

There is a big difference with BBCOR vs. BESR and BBCOR is worse than wood. They went too far and it's not mental or all in their minds. College players use their wood bats in BP when they know scouts are around. The problem with going to wood in high school is a lot of coaches will not let their players use wood. Don't know why except a bunch of broken bats.

A BBCOR will hit a minimum of 25' shorter than the same BESR bat. A college coach we know told us that the new BBCOR bats coming next year will be worse yet. Most of todays BBCOR still has a good sweet spot but they are planning to take the pop out of that.

Baseball is the only college sport where they are limiting offense. And please don't talk about safety... at 55' a pitcher still can't get out of the way.

There will be a big difference in CA high schools this season because almost everybody used one of the waivered composite bats(BESR).

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Originally posted by Ninthmanout:
There is a big difference with BBCOR vs. BESR and BBCOR is worse than wood. They went too far and it's not mental or all in their minds. College players use their wood bats in BP when they know scouts are around. The problem with going to wood in high school is a lot of coaches will not let their players use wood. Don't know why except a bunch of broken bats.

Sorry I just don't buy it. There's no way BBCOR is "Worse" than wood. What are you basing that statement off of? I'm seeing the difference with BBCOR at 15U/16U Travel ball, and it's pretty significant for the smaller guys and the guys who got by without a solid swing, but the kids who hit the ball hard consistently, still hit the ball hard consistently. The big difference? Balls on the handle or the very end of the bat are usually outs now...not base hits like they have been.

Kids who hit homeruns last year? They are still hitting them this year.

But worse than wood? I love wood bats. But you can't honestly tell me that if you put a BBCOR bat in a MLB hitters hands and have him hit, that the ball won't travel further than it would with wood.

quote:

Originally posted by Ninthmanout:
A BBCOR will hit a minimum of 25' shorter than the same BESR bat. A college coach we know told us that the new BBCOR bats coming next year will be worse yet. Most of todays BBCOR still has a good sweet spot but they are planning to take the pop out of that.

So where is the link to the data where his figure of 25' is listed? The real issue here? Many colleges and high schools are now realizing what MLB scouts have known since the BESR bats started getting so advanced.....you won't know what a hitter can do until he gets a wood bat in his hand at the upper levels.

quote:

Originally posted by Ninthmanout:Baseball is the only college sport where they are limiting offense. And please don't talk about safety... at 55' a pitcher still can't get out of the way. There will be a big difference in CA high schools this season because almost everybody used one of the waivered composite bats(BESR).

They aren't limiting offense. Honestly I think it will good for the game in the long run. It's a good thing for pitchers AND Hitters. Hitters will STILL hit, whether it's BBCOR or wood. Pitchers won't give up so many cheap shots, and scouts will hopefully be able to see how effective a pitcher has the potential to be at the next level with a more accurate showing.

I would venture a guess that many scouts are happy to see this...and I bet a lot would just prefer that leagues go all wood.

Just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by ctandc:
It's pretty simple actually...

The players who could hit, will still hit with BBCOR.

There will be a lot less "monster" homeruns coming from young HS Age players.

It's about perspective.

Of course now people will just assume the pitching is getting better...because now a fisted ball of the handle is usually going to be an out..instead of a single like it might have been with such forgiving bats.

I don't think the difference is near as big as the adults are making f it.

I doubt anyone will assume the pitching is better for at least 10 years - everybody's blaming the bats and will continue to do so.

Do we really think a bat can turn an out into a single?

quote:

Originally posted by Ninthmanout:
There is a big difference with BBCOR vs. BESR and BBCOR is worse than wood. They went too far and it's not mental or all in their minds. College players use their wood bats in BP when they know scouts are around. The problem with going to wood in high school is a lot of coaches will not let their players use wood. Don't know why except a bunch of broken bats.

A BBCOR will hit a minimum of 25' shorter than the same BESR bat. A college coach we know told us that the new BBCOR bats coming next year will be worse yet. Most of todays BBCOR still has a good sweet spot but they are planning to take the pop out of that.

Baseball is the only college sport where they are limiting offense. And please don't talk about safety... at 55' a pitcher still can't get out of the way.

There will be a big difference in CA high schools this season because almost everybody used one of the waivered composite bats(BESR).

A BBCOR bat will hit a minimum of 25' shorter? Where on earth did you get that?

I have yet to see a coach tell anyone they can't hit with wood. The schools here don't buy bats. They have one or two team bats, but not for each player. We hit with wood bats even when Magic Bats were allowed.

If you watched any of the college playoffs or college World Series that is what the color announcer was saying and it looked like it was dead on. I can't remember the guy's name (former pro) but was also on the telecasts for west coast college game. UCLA vs. Oregon comes to mind and he was saying the same thing (25'). He was also saying he was talking with players and watching batting practice (UCLA). Hitting it out for those guys with wood was no problem(that's why they were using wood when the scouts were around)but with BBCOR not so much. The players know it and the coaches know it.

On a personal level my son has no problem hitting the ball over the fence with BESR but using the same bat (exogrid) that is the same in every way except one is BESR and one BBCOR... the BBCOR is dead. 25' minimum is what the guy on TV said and it seems dead on. Homerun vs. warning track. This last weekend we were at a prospect camp with soph, Jrs, seniors and JC guys... BBCOR bats... 1 homerun all weekend and some of the games were coach pitched (meat). The head coach even made a point about the new bats.


The pitchers didn't get that much better... low scoring games will be the norm and I hope college doesn't lose too many viewers. Was it Texas and Virginia that went into 13+ tied at 0 to 0? Yawn!!!!!
Talk to any college coach that's not giving an interview and they will tell you the same thing.
What used to be a homerun is now a warning track out. The Jr. Colleges in our area went a good portion of the season before a homerun was hit.
If you look at runs scored last year and the year before you will see offence was greatly reduced.
Not a fan of BBCOR... they should have tried for something between wood and BESR. I think they got it wrong and now they are stuck with it.

quote:

Was it Texas and Virginia that went into 13+ tied at 0 to 0? Yawn!!!!!

You don't find dramatic tension in a 0-0 game that goes 13 innings? Wow...tough audience.

HS and college baseball has been suffering for fans for at least a couple of decades--I seriously doubt that the problem has anything to do with BBCOR bats. That's a far too simplistic answer.

That being said, I more-or-less agree with your estimate of 25' difference between BESR and BBCOR. The legal (unrolled) BESR standard allowed for ~5% better performance than wood. The BBCOR standard is supposed to limit bats to par with wood performance. At a very long distance like 400' that would amount to 20' of difference between BESR and BBCOR or wood.

However, a major flaw in the BESR standard allowed many of those bats to get "hotter" than the original 5% allowance in the manufacturing spec as they aged. Even worse, unscrupulous bat doctors learned how to make them hotter immediately, perhaps up to 10-15% hotter than wood, by compression-rolling techniques. Even 10% means a 30' difference at the relatively short distance of 300', so cheaters were really able to....well,... cheat.

Unfortunately, it is still apparently not illegal to modify bats...it's just illegal to use them (wink wink nudge nudge). There remains a cottage industry of people who will apparently modify BBCOR bats with various techniques to hot them up.

The consequences of getting caught? Very, very light--slap on the wrist stuff....plus, the realistic chances of being caught are slim enough such that the cheaters still have plenty of motivation to cheat.

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Was it Texas and Virginia that went into 13+ tied at 0 to 0? Yawn!!!!!

And that was because of the bat? LOL. That's PITCHING!

Was the color guy Garcia-Parra? You have to remember announcers are there to create drama. Look at all the fuss over the bullpen phone with the Cards.

I am in the only area in America that used BBCOR last year and their is an extreme difference in the BBCOR compared with the BESR.

1)They are exteremly different than BESR. Every one of our players that were homerun threats saw an extreme drop in homeruns. The Homerun guys that were juniors had hit 15 with BESR and it dropped to 6 their senior years.

2) Every player that I have talked to have all said that BBCOR are worse than wood. I had 3 players use wooden bats last year as opposed to BBCOR. In regards to coaches not letting players use wooden bats, we encourage it. We use them all fall and in 2 years we have only had about 2 break. The three players that used wood last year, not one of them broke their bats. If you swing correctly, they will be fine. In regards to stats we had a kid have the best year of his life, now in the Big 12 playing. He hit .485 with a woodie.

quote:

Originally posted by IEBSBL:
I am in the only area in America that used BBCOR last year and their is an extreme difference in the BBCOR compared with the BESR.

1)They are exteremly different than BESR. Every one of our players that were homerun threats saw an extreme drop in homeruns. The Homerun guys that were juniors had hit 15 with BESR and it dropped to 6 their senior years.

2) Every player that I have talked to have all said that BBCOR are worse than wood. I had 3 players use wooden bats last year as opposed to BBCOR. In regards to coaches not letting players use wooden bats, we encourage it. We use them all fall and in 2 years we have only had about 2 break. The three players that used wood last year, not one of them broke their bats. If you swing correctly, they will be fine. In regards to stats we had a kid have the best year of his life, now in the Big 12 playing. He hit .485 with a woodie.

did the pitchers go from junior to senior too?

Good on you for encouraging wood.

There's no way a BBCOR bat has less pop than a Wood bat... BBCOR bats DEFINITELY have less pop that BESR bats...

This video's about right, in my opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxI3svB_O44

Nice video coach. We are seeing about the same thing this fall. On another note, we hava a Dad who is an ex MLB'er and he swears that MLB quality wood is better than BBCOR when it comes to the sweet spot. He still has his bat contract so he is going to get some for us to try out.

I am not saying wood has less pop but what I am saying my players, along with all other players, I have spoken to that swing wood like the feel of wood better than the BBCOR. They feel the wood is a lot better balanced.

NDD...Yes those pitcher's became seniors however, If you new the players that I am speaking of you would understand that it had a lot to do with the BBCOR as opposed to the pitchers. I am not complaining, I like the switch it forces the players to learn how to hit correctly and they can not get away with bad swings. It was the same when they went to the -3 from a -5 and shrunk the barrel. I actually think it worked in our advantage with our staff. I was just noting the difference.

quote:

I am not saying wood has less pop but what I am saying my players, along with all other players, I have spoken to that swing wood like the feel of wood better than the BBCOR. They feel the wood is a lot better balanced

My own son likes wood better and he does feel wood has more pop than the NIKE BBCOR.We will see as this year they will use the marucci.

Son tried the Marucci. All I will say is good luck. We are not fans. How can your team get so unlucky as to go from Nike to Marucci?

You know what is interesting about the Marucci is I had a player transfer in this year and he was swinging a Marucci from last year. That bat has more pop than the other BBCOR's that we have in the program.

Are you guys talking about the Marucci Cat 5? Marucci is coming out with a new BBCOR that is supposed to be very good (according to them of course )

Yes I am. I had never even seen one except in a magazine and the kid show up with it and, to me, there was noticeable difference.

I posted this in another section, sorry if you've seen it before...

Before a game recently I took a few good hitters aside, and hit with them in the cage, and brought with us a BBCOR DeMarini Voodoo, Marucci Cat-5, Rawlings 5150, Easton Surge, and a Rawlings Plasma... Each player got about 10 swings with each... They all liked the Plasma the best... Unscientific and a small sample, but it was cool to see their reactions...

My son (age 14) has hit 350-360+/- ft. homers with it... So it can be done with BBCOR!

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How can your team get so unlucky as to go from Nike to Marucci?

They actually get to chose.The bat companies have come to the schools.One companie cut the bats in halves to show them the insides.I am not exact on the differences, But my son likes the Marruci.He is using the Black 2012 model.

The Demarinis and Eastons are the other ones he has tried.He did not like the Easton at all.Felt like the Demarini was the most like wood, and Marucci a little better than wood.

He hit in a wood bat summer league and did pretty well.

We will see.I will be able to tell.The Nike BBCOR are awful, and you can say its not the bat but the hitter,and I will disagree when it comes to Nike bats.

Left field at USC is a tough place to hit one out, he hit one off the top of the wall for a double in scrimmage today so we will see how the power goes.

So we're all complaining about BBCOR not having the pop and not "allowing" our children (or ourselves) to hit the ball as far as we possibly can. Perhaps it's just that we can't allow the bat to do all the work for us anymore, perhaps we need to actually have GOOD mechanics?

Or why don't we just go back to wood and say "the hell with it"?

fanofgame,

I'm curious why your son and his 'mates didn't like Easton...did they try out the 2012 Power Brigade line from Easton?

My son is a fan of wood, but he tried out one of the 2012 Eastons in a Fall Ball tourney recently and liked it a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/user/la...e#p/u/34/kyLrJRH8isQ

The crack of the bat actually sounds a lot like wood, but he thinks it performs better than wood. He also liked the sense of balance and "feel" of the bat in his hands.

The Kid got a chance to take some swings with a pro issued Max Bat wood a couple of days ago. The bat was too big for him of course, so everything went to RF, but Man! was it carrying! I went out to the OF to shag and was amazed at the difference in speed coming out. The player was pitching him curve balls away as well.

Of course the player giving him a tip or two probably didn't hurt anything either...

Yesterday we went back out and he used his normal bat. We worked on pulling and the same basic thing happened. I can't tell if it's the Indian or the arrow LOL, but I can say without a doubt that wood will work if the Indian does his part.

Son has swung the old Omaha's for 4 years. Loves the old green bat. Swung the Plasma this weekend in the cage. He absolutely loves it. Same type of balance and it has more pop than any of the other BBCOR's he has swung in the last year. It is the only one he likes better than some pro wood he got his hands on. It is a great bat for him. Try it out. One of his teamates were in the cages too and gave it a few swings. They will be buying one this week.

quote:

I'm curious why your son and his 'mates didn't like Easton...did they try out the 2012 Power Brigade line from Easton?

Son is a fan of wood as well.Hit real well with wood all summer.I think for him he just didnt like the feel of the Easton.It surprised me as he always used Easton stealths when growing up.
Easton reps were at the school.They companies have all tried to show why their bat is better.

Easton,Rawlins, Demarini, marucci all have good products and all of those bats rated high for BBCOR if you read bat ratings.

I think a lot is just feel, the handle and how the bat feels in your hands.Any of the above BBCOR will be fine.

Just personal preference.They are getting to try so many as NIKE released USC and other schools from using them this next season.So son has enjoyed swinging the different bats, but really likes the Maruccui.


Honestly anything other than the NIKE BBCOR is a huge improvement.

It's interesting to see the High School Dads and Coaches, that are making the switch to BBCOR that all the College players experienced last fall, have the same exact discussions. See prior thread.

My two cents worth, after a full years experience;

Hitters that have the skill to center the baseball, whether they have perfect mechanics or not, will still do so with BBCOR and get their hits. The ball DOES NOT travel as far, I don't care who is hitting it. The sweet spot is much smaller, many swear it is indeed smaller than wood! None of the College position players that I interact with would be upset if they played with Wood instead. Most prefer wood to BBCOR! And indeed, most have used wood predominantly in cage work, drills and early rounds of BP since they were early teenagers.

The BBCOR models this year ARE improved over last years early versions! The big guys can hit them out if centered well and the little guys, not so much. Just viewed our next to last Fall Scrimmage this past week end, it was a double header, one home run hit during the contest. NCAA home run totals down near 50% last year from prior year. The ball, when centered, will travel about 25 30' less than with the old BESR (per expert testimony: Coaches at NCAA level and former College/MLB players).

I witnessed Brian Jordan taking BP with all three (BESR, BBCOR and Wood) prior to a AAA Braves game this past year. He launched balls into orbit with the BESR, pronounced the BBCOR as dead and akin to hitting with a lead pipe, and hit how you would expect of him with Wood).

Personally, I'm glad the change was made for the good of the game but would prefer everyone use Wood and be done with it.

As far as which BBCOR "is the best?" I see that determination varies as do individual hitters. What "feels best" in their hands (not "Pop" perception) is what they normally choose.

I coach a 16U team this past summer and all but one of my kids swung the Rawlings 5150.....They liked the balance and the pop was really good for a BBCOR. They used the bat to put up over 20 runs in multiple games at the Premier World Series in Lubbock.....

Harp,
What did the lone dissenter use and how did he do?

He hit the 2012 Demarini.......He did well...but the ball seemed to jump off the Rawlings better for most of the kids.....

What a lot of people are seeing after one year of use, is that at 1st, there is a major shock going from BESR to BBCOR, and lot of experimenting, and a lot of myths being both created and exposed. As more and more different models have come out, there has been more and more players finding one they feel works better for them.

Consider this as a possible reason so many players like wood. How many models of woodies are out there? I randomly went to one bat site and found 50 models of LS wood bats alone. Add to that all the other large manufacturers, and to that all the little guys who turn out just a few hundred bats every year, and its always been pretty simple to find a wood bat that “feels” good because they are all slightly different.

But how many non-wood bats are like that? How much different is the feel gonna be from model to model and company to company. Sure there will be some difference, but nothing like wood, and that was a lot of the problem last year. There just wasn’t a whole lot of choice. But that changed with the 2012s. Many more models and many more different feels are available, and I think that’s gonna make a big difference.

Will it ever get back to what it was in 2010? Thankfully no, but these things have a way of ebbing and flowing, and eventually reaching an even water mark. I also think that as time goes by, more and more players will just stick with the BBCORS because there will be no reason to use the wood. Bu, we shall see what we shall see.

Baum bats Just don't break and they are bbcor.50 leagal in 2012
I own Northwest Independent Baseball League (nwibl.org) a wood bat summer league in Portland OR and also Wood Bats 4 Sale (woodbats4sale.com) over 80 players on 17 teams use Baum Bats BBCOR.50, next is demarini composite wood, then Mizuno wood composite (which seem to be replaced the most) Baum bats have out hit for average and power with those who use them and none have broke during the three years the league has been in play. woodbats4sale.com sales them for $177 plus usps priority mail shipping anywhere in the USA