What do you think about hitters that have a slightly open stance prior to the pitcher delivering the ball?
Just style - or does it increase the difficulty of getting yourself into an appropriate hitting position?
Thanks.
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The stance - prior to the pitch.
Thanks bb
I know you directed your question to bbscout, but ... 
I had heard that starting from an open stance might help those whose dominant eye is closer to the catcher pickup the pitch sooner/better. IOW, if I'm a natural righty, my dominant eye is probably the right one, and it's "stuck" back there further from the incoming pitch.
Is there any truth to this?
I had heard that starting from an open stance might help those whose dominant eye is closer to the catcher pickup the pitch sooner/better. IOW, if I'm a natural righty, my dominant eye is probably the right one, and it's "stuck" back there further from the incoming pitch.
Is there any truth to this?
Sandman,
Actually - I think that is an interesting observation. I wasnt really thinking about vision - but now that you mention it - it seems very plausible to me that some hitters would do that.
Actually - I think that is an interesting observation. I wasnt really thinking about vision - but now that you mention it - it seems very plausible to me that some hitters would do that.
A good question and bbscout delivered a nice answer. I also believe as in style, its individual. Young hitters could find it difficult to get into the right place to hit, but experienced hitters have proven that it works for some. End result is what counts.
I don't remember where I'd originally heard about this (likely multiple sources), but here's one I just found w/ a quick Google search:
http://www.beabetterhitter.com/text/fundamentals/stance.../stanceandvision.htm
http://www.beabetterhitter.com/text/fundamentals/stance.../stanceandvision.htm
Its-
As Donny has explained pretty well, you have to get the hands loaded in enough to get the inside out/circular handpath for good loading/connection/unloading ("circular handpath").
When you use a closed stance,it encourages doing this. A lot of people would be better off if they tried to "hide the hands" as opposed to getting at it indirectly by closing stance.
Similarly,when/if you open the stance, you really have to focus on hiding the hands to overcome the influence of the open stance.
OK, so now lets say you know how you need to move and position the hands and you also have an open stance. THEN the result is exactly the same as the way Epstein describes th shortening up of the swing for a 2 strike adjustment. In this case, you have to cover the whole plate, so you cam't look in or out,BUT you still have a good(but shorter/less separated) coil. The mental approach with this mechanical 2 strike adjustment that he finds works best is to look middle so you can still catch up to the inside stuff by keeping the hands in and turning on the ball (the old "Harry Heilman became a good htter when he learned to take the inside heater up the middle with 2 strikes thing) or let the ball get deep to adjust outside.
Epstein differed from Williams in how to make this adjustment.
Williams liked to "get more time" by closing the stance to set the contact points back, but Epstein doesn't like this becasue it makes the inside pitch hard to handle.
Epstein gets more time by rotating open to shorten the coil/load/swing while keeping sense of strike zone the same by keeping the spine/center the same distance from the plate. In addition.the axis is kept more upright which further levels out and shortens the swing by getting on top of the ball more.
Somewhat related to this is the (bogus for rotational power swing) idea of strding with the pitch. For a short quick swing such as the Aaron belly-up/quick hands, the foot will end up coming down somewhat more open for inside because you stop the hand cok sooner and start rotating sooner/well before front foot gets down which means the front foot comes down more open- see clips:
http://www.beabetterhitter.com/text/batspeed/coiling/coiling.htm
This is NOT the same as waiting to see where the ball is then desciding to stride that way- there is not enough time for that.http://www.beabetterhitter.com/text/batspeed/coiling/coiling.htm
As Donny has explained pretty well, you have to get the hands loaded in enough to get the inside out/circular handpath for good loading/connection/unloading ("circular handpath").
When you use a closed stance,it encourages doing this. A lot of people would be better off if they tried to "hide the hands" as opposed to getting at it indirectly by closing stance.
Similarly,when/if you open the stance, you really have to focus on hiding the hands to overcome the influence of the open stance.
OK, so now lets say you know how you need to move and position the hands and you also have an open stance. THEN the result is exactly the same as the way Epstein describes th shortening up of the swing for a 2 strike adjustment. In this case, you have to cover the whole plate, so you cam't look in or out,BUT you still have a good(but shorter/less separated) coil. The mental approach with this mechanical 2 strike adjustment that he finds works best is to look middle so you can still catch up to the inside stuff by keeping the hands in and turning on the ball (the old "Harry Heilman became a good htter when he learned to take the inside heater up the middle with 2 strikes thing) or let the ball get deep to adjust outside.
Epstein differed from Williams in how to make this adjustment.
Williams liked to "get more time" by closing the stance to set the contact points back, but Epstein doesn't like this becasue it makes the inside pitch hard to handle.
Epstein gets more time by rotating open to shorten the coil/load/swing while keeping sense of strike zone the same by keeping the spine/center the same distance from the plate. In addition.the axis is kept more upright which further levels out and shortens the swing by getting on top of the ball more.
Somewhat related to this is the (bogus for rotational power swing) idea of strding with the pitch. For a short quick swing such as the Aaron belly-up/quick hands, the foot will end up coming down somewhat more open for inside because you stop the hand cok sooner and start rotating sooner/well before front foot gets down which means the front foot comes down more open- see clips:
http://www.beabetterhitter.com/text/batspeed/coiling/coiling.htm
This is NOT the same as waiting to see where the ball is then desciding to stride that way- there is not enough time for that.http://www.beabetterhitter.com/text/batspeed/coiling/coiling.htm
Wow Tom, nice site indeed. Could see the power V in the hammering Hank's clips for sure.
I know I'm not bbscout but I had to give you compliment on the site.
Shep
I know I'm not bbscout but I had to give you compliment on the site.
Shep
shep-
These are good clips but not very good analysis. It is difficult,but important to try to see how a given hitter makes adjustments. Hard to find clips where you control the variables you would like without lots of other things changing at the same time that confuse the issues,but I find that mechanics are consistent enough to make some different conclusions.The author says, forexample:
"During the coiling, or loading phase (frames 1-6), there is absolutely nothing different about the two swings. Although it is clear that Henry was fully aware of the location of each pitch (inside in frames to the left, middle in frames to the right) by the 3rd frame, he made no alterations in his upper body preparation to compensate for pitch location. Think about that. He knew where the pitch would be and changed nothing in the loading of the bat… nothing. I am willing to bet that if we watched video of Henry in 100 at-bats, we would see exactly the same preparation in each at-bat! He coiled the spring exactly the same each time. This from a man that hit more homeruns than any player in history."
Being an upper body loading guy I see Hank interruptloading earlier on the inside ball which means he can turnon the ball more with a shorter swing radius/lower resistance to rotation. I think this issignificant even given the slightly different camera angles and timings, but you can only see what you can/want to? see.
These are good clips but not very good analysis. It is difficult,but important to try to see how a given hitter makes adjustments. Hard to find clips where you control the variables you would like without lots of other things changing at the same time that confuse the issues,but I find that mechanics are consistent enough to make some different conclusions.The author says, forexample:
"During the coiling, or loading phase (frames 1-6), there is absolutely nothing different about the two swings. Although it is clear that Henry was fully aware of the location of each pitch (inside in frames to the left, middle in frames to the right) by the 3rd frame, he made no alterations in his upper body preparation to compensate for pitch location. Think about that. He knew where the pitch would be and changed nothing in the loading of the bat… nothing. I am willing to bet that if we watched video of Henry in 100 at-bats, we would see exactly the same preparation in each at-bat! He coiled the spring exactly the same each time. This from a man that hit more homeruns than any player in history."
Being an upper body loading guy I see Hank interruptloading earlier on the inside ball which means he can turnon the ball more with a shorter swing radius/lower resistance to rotation. I think this issignificant even given the slightly different camera angles and timings, but you can only see what you can/want to? see.
Tom is correct.
Changing line of direction had profound effects on the swing. The line of direction of the feet should be to the throwing arm of the pitcher.
You either coil against the line of direction to "hide the hands" a hitting absolute or they are "pre-hidden in a closed stance. In a closed stance the feet , shoulders and hips are all in the same spatial plane with no pre-set x-factor in the setup. For kids this negates the need for loading then there are no negative moves( cocking hips and hands in the preswing.
Kids suffer the most when allowed to work their feet around to 2B side of pitcher. It gets their shoulder in and hands inside but they never learn to load properly but intsead of rotating into toe touch they step left and pull the knob. Dead hands and dead hips and no hip coil no negative moves in the preswing
It forces them to step in the bucket usually. This creates x factor on inside pitches only and they develop a "pull field preference".
Learning to see the shoulder / hip relationships relating to set up is a must to understand cause and effect and compensation vs design vs...unconscience set up flaw for youth ball IMO
Slightly closed with good loading action is differeent from a counterfeit set up to compensate for poor loading and a swing that consist of a dead hands step in the bucket pull the knob.
The George Brett Swing is a different animal so Scout...he does pull it off with style ...but not the average kid
Changing line of direction had profound effects on the swing. The line of direction of the feet should be to the throwing arm of the pitcher.
You either coil against the line of direction to "hide the hands" a hitting absolute or they are "pre-hidden in a closed stance. In a closed stance the feet , shoulders and hips are all in the same spatial plane with no pre-set x-factor in the setup. For kids this negates the need for loading then there are no negative moves( cocking hips and hands in the preswing.
Kids suffer the most when allowed to work their feet around to 2B side of pitcher. It gets their shoulder in and hands inside but they never learn to load properly but intsead of rotating into toe touch they step left and pull the knob. Dead hands and dead hips and no hip coil no negative moves in the preswing
It forces them to step in the bucket usually. This creates x factor on inside pitches only and they develop a "pull field preference".
Learning to see the shoulder / hip relationships relating to set up is a must to understand cause and effect and compensation vs design vs...unconscience set up flaw for youth ball IMO
Slightly closed with good loading action is differeent from a counterfeit set up to compensate for poor loading and a swing that consist of a dead hands step in the bucket pull the knob.
The George Brett Swing is a different animal so Scout...he does pull it off with style ...but not the average kid
