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Beach District Schedule

CT Chris Taylor100+ posts
Anyone else think a change should be in order with regard to the scheduling? It just seems to me that all teams should play the same teams in the District the same number of times in order to determine a true regular season District champ. While I don't think it will really be a factor this year, it can be a definite advantage to play the teams at the bottom of the standings twice rather than the top teams. Why not play each district team just once and open up the other VHSL allowed games to play tournaments or teams from other areas as they do in other sports?

"Character: How hard you work when no one is watching."

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LawmanLawman100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Taylor:
Anyone else think a change should be in order with regard to the scheduling? It just seems to me that all teams should play the same teams in the District the same number of times in order to determine a true regular season District champ. While I don't think it will really be a factor this year, it can be a definite advantage to play the teams at the bottom of the standings twice rather than the top teams. Why not play each district team just once and open up the other VHSL allowed games to play tournaments or teams from other areas as they do in other sports?


Chris,
I am 100% in agreement with you. Each team playing anoher team in the Districtat least once.

With 11 schools in the Beach District; you could play a first half schedule of 5 games each.

Play your Spring Break Tourney, then come back and finish the District with 5 games.

Play another tourney then go into the District Tourney,Regionals then State.

With this format you get games against outside teams which allows you to get playing time for more players. Additionally, some bottom teams within the District are afforded opportunities to win games which is important with maintaining interest (for the players) and can actually help the established programs thataregoing through rebuilding years.

Using Landstown as an example to the afore mentioned statement; the previous two years when things weren't going so well in the Beach district, we entered the Nanesmond River tourney and came out with a couple wins each year while allowing more playing time for other players. This kept our players interest in baseball intact while instilling confidence and a positive attitude as to what the future may bring. For us the future is now.

What do you think of my proposal?
Last edited by Lawman
LawmanLawman100+ posts
For the Beach Tourney; all teams are eligible.

The regular season Champion; naturally is awarded the #1 seed and a first round bye or can face the
winner of the #10 vs #11 play-in game.

Think of the benefits a victory in the tourney can bring to a program at the bottom.

quote:
Hope springs eternal in the human breast;
Man never Is, but always To be blest:
The soul, uneasy and confin'd from home,
Rests and expatiates in a life to come


-Alexander Pope,
An Essay on Man, Epistle I, 1733
CT Chris Taylor100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Lawman:
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Taylor:
Anyone else think a change should be in order with regard to the scheduling? It just seems to me that all teams should play the same teams in the District the same number of times in order to determine a true regular season District champ. While I don't think it will really be a factor this year, it can be a definite advantage to play the teams at the bottom of the standings twice rather than the top teams. Why not play each district team just once and open up the other VHSL allowed games to play tournaments or teams from other areas as they do in other sports?


Chris,
I am 100% in agreement with you. Each team playing anoher team in the Districtat least once.

With 11 schools in the Beach District; you could play a first half schedule of 5 games each.

Play your Spring Break Tourney, then come back and finish the District with 5 games.

Play another tourney then go into the District Tourney,Regionals then State.

With this format you get games against outside teams which allows you to get playing time for more players. Additionally, some bottom teams within the District are afforded opportunities to win games which is important with maintaining interest (for the players) and can actually help the established programs thataregoing through rebuilding years.

Using Landstown as an example to the afore mentioned statement; the previous two years when things weren't going so well in the Beach district, we entered the Nanesmond River tourney and came out with a couple wins each year while allowing more playing time for other players. This kept our players interest in baseball intact while instilling confidence and a positive attitude as to what the future may bring. For us the future is now.

What do you think of my proposal?


Sounds good to me (good point about getting the lesser teams and backup players some confidence and experience), but I think I'd rather see the teams start out with the non district games and then, when everyone hopefully has gotten the kinks worked out, play those important District games. Either way though is better than what we have now. As for the tournament, allowing the 9, 10, and 11 teams in would be ok, but it would have to be done so that it would be spread out enough so that it would not spread the pitching too thin and put the Beach teams at a disadvantage going into region play. With the VHSL time limit restrictions (there may also be some restrictions as to # of games allowed that come into play), I'm not sure that could be done. Maybe have 9, 10, and 11 play a round robin "consolation tourney"? That way they still get some of the excitement and exposure of tournament play and teams still have to earn their way into the Championship Tourney
LawmanLawman100+ posts
quote:
Sounds good to me (good point about getting the lesser teams and backup players some confidence and experience), but I think I'd rather see the teams start out with the non district games and then, when everyone hopefully has gotten the kinks worked out, play those important District games
.

Agree,
Four non-conference games or tourney; 3-4 District games followed by spring-break tourney then back to completing the regular season.

quote:
As for the tournament, allowing the 9, 10, and 11 teams in would be ok, but it would have to be done so that it would be spread out enough so that it would not spread the pitching too thin and put the Beach teams at a disadvantage going into region play. With the VHSL time limit restrictions (there may also be some restrictions as to # of games allowed that come into play), I'm not sure that could be done. Maybe have 9, 10, and 11 play a round robin "consolation tourney"? That way they still get some of the excitement and exposure of tournament play and teams still have to earn their way into the Championship Tourney


Good points. My idea of making the tourney open to all stems from the just completed NCAA BB Tourney with talk of opening up the field to include more teams.

I can see where more games could deplete if not hurt the Beach teams pitching for Regionals.
N Nomadad100+ posts
Great idea "Lawman", maybe the second place team from the "BEACH DISTRICT" should have used your idea last year in the Regionals? Just think had they used the bottom of the bench playing the out of district team "Granby" they may have won?I am sure there was a better way of stating your point other than implying the beach district is the end all, we will see soon enough?
CT Chris Taylor100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Nomadad:
Great idea "Lawman", maybe the second place team from the "BEACH DISTRICT" should have used your idea last year in the Regionals? Just think had they used the bottom of the bench playing the out of district team "Granby" they may have won?I am sure there was a better way of stating your point other than implying the beach district is the end all, we will see soon enough?


I think you may be reading a little more into Lawman's statement than there actually was. I assume this is what you were responding to?

"With this format you get games against outside teams which allows you to get playing time for more players. Additionally, some bottom teams within the District are afforded opportunities to win games which is important with maintaining interest (for the players) and can actually help the established programs thataregoing through rebuilding years."

I think he was trying to say that against non-district teams, coaches will not feel as pressured to keep starters in the game since those games will not count towards the District season championship. It was not intended to reflect on the quality of the non-district team. As for the remainder of the statement, he was just stating that a coach from a team at the bottom of the District could have the opportunity to go out and schedule teams that they might could be more competitive with...not a knock on any other District since that same thinking could apply to teams in the bottom of any other District, correct?
LawmanLawman100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Nomadad:
Great idea "Lawman", maybe the second place team from the "BEACH DISTRICT" should have used your idea last year in the Regionals? Just think had they used the bottom of the bench playing the out of district team "Granby" they may have won?I am sure there was a better way of stating your point other than implying the beach district is the end all, we will see soon enough?


nomad,
I think you missunderstood the intent of my post as others have indicated. I apologize for not being as clear.

- fix the schedule for the sake of equality

- playing more non-conference games in order to advance max participation for other team players

- a longer beach district tournament may not be a good idea; due to the toll it could have on a teams pitching staff

- I would not promote winning games outside the district as a given. The case I presented was just an example of what has actually happened and the good that came out of it. (you may of realized that I said we averaged a couple (two) wins in those tourneys; omitting as a given there were also an average of two loses, I did not specify).

Chris Taylor,
Your reply was exactly the perspective what I was attempting to present. Thank you.
Last edited by Lawman
LawmanLawman100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. C:
momadad, i agree with you. it appears there are an awful lot of pro beach guys on this board. i cannot see a beach team advancing to states with the strength of the other districts in te region.


I agree with you, the SE appears to be the strongest with WB,Hickory and Grasfields recent victory over GB.

The Beach may not be as strong as years past due to the injection of young players(freshman/sophmores) on magority of teams throughout. (this should be a testament as to what the future may hold)

PA has rebuilt nicely from the lost of last years starters; Bayside and Cox are surging and starting to show why many projected them to be at the top of the district. Kellam and Landstown have been the surprises this year playing with many underclassman in their respective lineups.

But, I thought this topic thread was about fixing the Beach District scheduling
Last edited by Lawman
N Nomadad100+ posts
Isaacvanwart is discussing the same problem in his post(Va. public/private tournament), the solution is total number of games,20 to 25,30? How do you schedule games in short period of time between February 20 and the end of the season? One thing is for sure,Pony and Little League need to develop more pitchers?This is evident at next level play.Number of pitchers carried on there school teams and where the scholarship money goes. I appreciate your correction as to my interpretation earlier.
S saipanwarrior100+ posts
Nomad,

Don't put the development of pitching on Pony and Little League. The problem in our area right now is not these organizations....it's parents/kids!

I've been coaching in a Pony Organization since 1994 and the number of kids in the leagues are down at all levels. I've coached at all levels and when I started we would have 10-12 teams at the 11-12 year old level and 8 teams at 13-14 level....we are now consistently at 6 teams and 3 teams. Alot of this has to do with kids having so many other things to do.......AAU, Middle School Baseball, Select Teams, S****r, skateboarding, video games, etc......but alot has to do with parents and kids are not interested in Rec Ball.......I've been to games where there were maybe 5 parents in the stands. It's just not like its was 10 years ago.
MC Mr. C10+ posts
Lawman, I think you will find the beach schedule unfixable with 11 teams unless someone goes to the vhsl and tries to get more games for high school season. (check out the regionals for football and hoops and you will get an idea of how important baseball is on the vhsl list of priorities) for comparison sake, check out the 16 gm NFL schedule and notice there is only a few common opponents with playoff teams so some teams play more difficult schedules than others. it is all good
LawmanLawman100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. C:
Lawman, I think you will find the beach schedule unfixable with 11 teams unless someone goes to the vhsl and tries to get more games for high school season. (check out the regionals for football and hoops and you will get an idea of how important baseball is on the vhsl list of priorities) for comparison sake, check out the 16 gm NFL schedule and notice there is only a few common opponents with playoff teams so some teams play more difficult schedules than others. it is all good


Mr C,

The bolded piece of your article made me think of coach Polk's post on this site:

http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/ncaa_enemy.htm

Additionally, I have been critical in the past of the Pilots coverage of HS baseball; which pales in comparison when it comes football and basketball.
(They have improved)

With 11 teams, that's a 10 game season with each game that much more important be it establishing a District Champion and/or Tourney seeding.

I see your point with the NFL schedule(the NE Patriots in 2008 will have a relatively easier schedule; based on the teams that made the playoff's in 2007)but they still have to play the games and those teams they are scheduled to play could be the Kellam's and Landstown's of the VBD 2008.

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