how important is bench press cuz i don't bench that much
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How much you bench press doesn't tell you how well you throw strikes or how well you hit curveballs. You could bench press a car, but if you don't have any technique in whatever it is your doing-say for hitting, if you can't swing half-decently, you ain't gonna hit it, and when you do it ain't going too far. I don't bench much either...about 120 pounds I think, (5'10" 140 soaking wet) but I can hit as far-if not further-than guys alot bigger than me.
bench press is very overrated. some programs dont even think baseball players should do it because of wear and tear on rotator cuff. try to get stronger all across your body, but dont overkill on the bench.
Make sure your back muscles are STRONG. Much more important to BB player than front side. Rows, chins, deadlift, shrugs.
Tim Robertson
Tim Robertson
I agree with brent when he says that it can cause damage to the rotator cuff. Although it is my understanding that the bench press is still significant as the triceps and chest provide a large amount of strength from the upper body, and will help moreso with hitting than with throwing.
I am not a big fan of the bench press for baseball players.
Individuals tend to use more weight than they should and this exercise places a great deal of stress on the rotator cuff.
We spend a great deal of time in internal rotation on the diamond so whey would we do that in the weight room?
Individuals tend to use more weight than they should and this exercise places a great deal of stress on the rotator cuff.
We spend a great deal of time in internal rotation on the diamond so whey would we do that in the weight room?
I see the other side of the arguement, yet I would always say that you can't simply ignore a muscle group...
Andrew,
I do not believe training the body in muscle groups. It should be trained in movements. The bench press a horizontal press. I certainly work that plane with various push-up's (I use between 15-20 versions of the push-up) and will use DB bench presses and sometimes even barbell bench presses with my players.
That, of course, is all supervised. I just have not witnessed too many individuals performing the bench press correctly (shoulder blades pinched, butt close to shoulders as possible, great leg drive and pulling the weight down not lowering it)on their own.
So sorry for any confusion about my past post. Just like any exercise, it is just fine when done correctly and in the correct amounts and can be harmful when done incorrectly and too often.
I do not believe training the body in muscle groups. It should be trained in movements. The bench press a horizontal press. I certainly work that plane with various push-up's (I use between 15-20 versions of the push-up) and will use DB bench presses and sometimes even barbell bench presses with my players.
That, of course, is all supervised. I just have not witnessed too many individuals performing the bench press correctly (shoulder blades pinched, butt close to shoulders as possible, great leg drive and pulling the weight down not lowering it)on their own.
So sorry for any confusion about my past post. Just like any exercise, it is just fine when done correctly and in the correct amounts and can be harmful when done incorrectly and too often.
I've heard many people say the bench press is bad for pitchers. Is this true, and if so why?
nd943,
Bench press CAN be bad for pitchers, but not always.
If it is performed incorrectly or in a traditional bodybuilding manner (elbows out, hands wide, back flat) the exercise can place a tremendous amount of undue stress on the internal rotators of the shoulder.
Let me say this. I have never known anybody who has worked at 85% of their max bench press and above that has not had a shoulder issue/injury at some point, myself included.
I typically do not put the bench press in my pitchers workouts. If I do it is of the DB variety.
I would stay away if long term shoulder health is a concern, which it should be.
I can go on in length about this topic so if you would like to know more just let me know and I will cover it.
Bench press CAN be bad for pitchers, but not always.
If it is performed incorrectly or in a traditional bodybuilding manner (elbows out, hands wide, back flat) the exercise can place a tremendous amount of undue stress on the internal rotators of the shoulder.
Let me say this. I have never known anybody who has worked at 85% of their max bench press and above that has not had a shoulder issue/injury at some point, myself included.
I typically do not put the bench press in my pitchers workouts. If I do it is of the DB variety.
I would stay away if long term shoulder health is a concern, which it should be.
I can go on in length about this topic so if you would like to know more just let me know and I will cover it.
quote:Originally posted by Jon Doyle:
nd943,
Bench press CAN be bad for pitchers, but not always.
If it is performed incorrectly or in a traditional bodybuilding manner (elbows out, hands wide, back flat) the exercise can place a tremendous amount of undue stress on the internal rotators of the shoulder.
Let me say this. I have never known anybody who has worked at 85% of their max bench press and above that has not had a shoulder issue/injury at some point, myself included.
I typically do not put the bench press in my pitchers workouts. If I do it is of the DB variety.
I would stay away if long term shoulder health is a concern, which it should be.
I can go on in length about this topic so if you would like to know more just let me know and I will cover it.
How do you preform the bench press to make it benficial?
Also, what varieties of DBs do you use?
Please go into depth into this because your advice can help alot of people.
How to perform the bench press to increase performance and avoid all potential shouler issues.
Set-up
1. Hands shoulder width
2. shoulder blades squeezed together
3. Butt as close t othe shoulders as possible, creating a a stable arch.
4. Feet as close to the shoulders as well. This will enable the legs to help with the drive and help protect the shoulders by keeping the body tight.
Lift
Depending on where you are in your program a load of 40-65% of your 1 rep max should be used. This load will not only allow you to generate the greatest amount of force (force = mass (load) x acceleration (bar speed), but will also eliminate any shoulder issues. That is assuming no current shoulder conditions.
Remember we are training movements, not musculature. So going heavier than this will slow the bar speed dramatically and increase your chance of injury.
Unless the athlete is extremely advanced, he or she cannot perform a bench press the same with a 65% load and a 85% or greater load. The heavy weight changes the movement completely and typically will turn the bench press into a "dangerous" one. This does not mean we will use high reps however. It is very common for us to use 6 sets of 4 reps at 50% of a 1RM.
OK so now we have our load and the set-up correctly.
Keeping your position tight:
1. Grab the bat shoulder width grip
2. Pull the weight down to the chest with the lats...do not just resist the weight...actively pull as this will incorporate the SSC cycle which is crucial to everything on the baseball diamond.
3. Pull down to the lower chest area and explode up driving your body into the bench, not pushing the bar away from you. This will keep your body tight and your shoulders protected.
Each rep needs to be perfect. If bar speed slows or technique is lost just a bit terminate the set immediately.
Following these rules will allow you to get the benefits of the bench press w/o any of the common issues that come along with it.
My fav version of the bench:
1. Bench
2. Pause Bench
3. Stability ball barbell
4. Off-set bench
5. One arm barbell bench
Set-up
1. Hands shoulder width
2. shoulder blades squeezed together
3. Butt as close t othe shoulders as possible, creating a a stable arch.
4. Feet as close to the shoulders as well. This will enable the legs to help with the drive and help protect the shoulders by keeping the body tight.
Lift
Depending on where you are in your program a load of 40-65% of your 1 rep max should be used. This load will not only allow you to generate the greatest amount of force (force = mass (load) x acceleration (bar speed), but will also eliminate any shoulder issues. That is assuming no current shoulder conditions.
Remember we are training movements, not musculature. So going heavier than this will slow the bar speed dramatically and increase your chance of injury.
Unless the athlete is extremely advanced, he or she cannot perform a bench press the same with a 65% load and a 85% or greater load. The heavy weight changes the movement completely and typically will turn the bench press into a "dangerous" one. This does not mean we will use high reps however. It is very common for us to use 6 sets of 4 reps at 50% of a 1RM.
OK so now we have our load and the set-up correctly.
Keeping your position tight:
1. Grab the bat shoulder width grip
2. Pull the weight down to the chest with the lats...do not just resist the weight...actively pull as this will incorporate the SSC cycle which is crucial to everything on the baseball diamond.
3. Pull down to the lower chest area and explode up driving your body into the bench, not pushing the bar away from you. This will keep your body tight and your shoulders protected.
Each rep needs to be perfect. If bar speed slows or technique is lost just a bit terminate the set immediately.
Following these rules will allow you to get the benefits of the bench press w/o any of the common issues that come along with it.
My fav version of the bench:
1. Bench
2. Pause Bench
3. Stability ball barbell
4. Off-set bench
5. One arm barbell bench
Almost forgot to mention:
1. The elbows should not be forced out away from the body. Let them take their natural path, about 45 degrees.
2. When extending elbows on lifting portion do not let the barbel travel back over the eyes. Keep the barbell over the chest. Bringing the bar back towards the eyes places a great deal of undue stress on the shoulders.
1. The elbows should not be forced out away from the body. Let them take their natural path, about 45 degrees.
2. When extending elbows on lifting portion do not let the barbel travel back over the eyes. Keep the barbell over the chest. Bringing the bar back towards the eyes places a great deal of undue stress on the shoulders.
i lift weights quit often and im a pitcher but we dont start baseball till the 20th of march so i still lift heavy... but im going to stop lifting heavy about 3 weeks before practice starts and work with bands and only bands i bench once a week and i feel it helps me strengthen my shoulders and my chest. so i think the bench is good if done in a correct manner and dont overload it.
and you recomend 6 sets of 4 with 40-65% 1rm
It is hard to give an exact rep/set protocol w/o looking at an entire 365 day plan.
However, with the bench press we are always in the 40-65% range. One of our protocols is a 6 x 4 scheme.
However, with the bench press we are always in the 40-65% range. One of our protocols is a 6 x 4 scheme.
gotcha, thanks though
ps Jon i also sent you an email
ps Jon i also sent you an email
We use the Bigger Faster Stronger program at our school. This is for all athletes and the weight training class. We don't really do sport-specific lifts in the weight room. I think football probably does, but they spend a lot more time in the offseason in there than other sports. I play 3 sports and spend 45 minutes a day in the weight room.
Our series goes like this:
Monday
Towel Bench
Box Squat
Wednesday
Power/hang clean
Hex bar
Friday
Bench
Parallel Squat
Week 1
3X3
Week 2
3X5 (offseason 5X5)
Week 3
5,3,1 (offseason 5,4,3,2,1)
Week 4
10,8,6 (hex and clean 4,4,2)
This works well year round. I even lift within hours before a game. I typically lift around 2:00PM and play baseball around 4.
What gets tiring is doing Parallel Squat 10,8,6 and then catching in the bullpen for an hour or two.
Our series goes like this:
Monday
Towel Bench
Box Squat
Wednesday
Power/hang clean
Hex bar
Friday
Bench
Parallel Squat
Week 1
3X3
Week 2
3X5 (offseason 5X5)
Week 3
5,3,1 (offseason 5,4,3,2,1)
Week 4
10,8,6 (hex and clean 4,4,2)
This works well year round. I even lift within hours before a game. I typically lift around 2:00PM and play baseball around 4.
What gets tiring is doing Parallel Squat 10,8,6 and then catching in the bullpen for an hour or two.
i have seen recently in articles here towel bench and towel pushups and chinups what are these?
All baseball players should use towel chin-ups. Simply hang two towels from a pullup nar, grab on and pullup. Awesome!
Ok i will do these sometime soon
thanks agian Jon
thanks agian Jon
What is the increased benefit of the towel chin ups? I do normal chin ups now, but I would like to try the towel ones. Thanks.
Towel chins provide a different stimulus for the back muscles and are a tremendous exercise for forearm and grip strength.
Plus the unstable environment assists in proper shoulder girdle stabilization.
Plus the unstable environment assists in proper shoulder girdle stabilization.
Bench Press can be utilized for building a strength base but beyond that it is very over rated and too much emphasis is placed on this lift. Bench for an overhead athlete - baseball player (regardless of position), softball player, volleyball player etc who perform bench press on a regular basis to full range of motion (ROM) are palcing unnecessary stress on the humeral head in the shoulder joint and over time can increase the laxity in the joint. Laxity in the joint is going to happen naturally as a direct result of throwing even with a sound, structured, professionally designed shoulder program.
Baseball is not played on your back and it should not be trained that way. Unfortunately, many baseball players go into the season having lifted since the end of the football season as if they all play offensive tackle.
Many progressive D1, D2 programs are not even incorporating bench press into their programs. This includes many S&C coaches for football as well. There are many more creative ways to train the 'push' movements that are safer for overhead athletes than bench press.
Baseball is not played on your back and it should not be trained that way. Unfortunately, many baseball players go into the season having lifted since the end of the football season as if they all play offensive tackle.
Many progressive D1, D2 programs are not even incorporating bench press into their programs. This includes many S&C coaches for football as well. There are many more creative ways to train the 'push' movements that are safer for overhead athletes than bench press.
I feel obligated to chime in here. I might not know anything about baseball, but the bench press is something I know about.
First off an athlete should not train like a bodybuilder. Bodybuilder's typically train "slow" no matter what weight or exercise they are doing which is counterproductive for athletes.
Second, 99% of the people on the face of the earth bench (IMO) incorrectly. They push the bar back over their face when going heavy. This is a result of #1 Having shoulders that are stronger than your triceps and #2 an incorrect set up on the bench. When benching you should push the bar up in a straight line and possibly a little toward your feet. I have lifted heavy for about 15yrs and I have absolutely no shoulder pains or problems.
Third, most people don't truly know how to get a big bench. When done correctly, it shows how strong your triceps and back are. The movement (when done correctly) has very little to do with your chest. My chest NEVER gets sore.
Finally, while a lot of people will tell you that "the bench is not important", most bio's I read about athletes from all sports list 2 things-40 yard time and how much they bench. Me personally, it is like the old saying goes, I would rather have a big bench and not need it, than to need a big bench and not have it.
First off an athlete should not train like a bodybuilder. Bodybuilder's typically train "slow" no matter what weight or exercise they are doing which is counterproductive for athletes.
Second, 99% of the people on the face of the earth bench (IMO) incorrectly. They push the bar back over their face when going heavy. This is a result of #1 Having shoulders that are stronger than your triceps and #2 an incorrect set up on the bench. When benching you should push the bar up in a straight line and possibly a little toward your feet. I have lifted heavy for about 15yrs and I have absolutely no shoulder pains or problems.
Third, most people don't truly know how to get a big bench. When done correctly, it shows how strong your triceps and back are. The movement (when done correctly) has very little to do with your chest. My chest NEVER gets sore.
Finally, while a lot of people will tell you that "the bench is not important", most bio's I read about athletes from all sports list 2 things-40 yard time and how much they bench. Me personally, it is like the old saying goes, I would rather have a big bench and not need it, than to need a big bench and not have it.
ZachsDad
Please do not misunderstand. I DID NOT say that Bench was 'not important'. I meant that there were many other lifts done to promote performance that will enhance the overhead athletes strength and shoulder stability.
In training NFL combine athletes I train athletes how to perform the 225# bench test to their maximum potential as well as the other tests administered at the combine. The bnech test is only 1 of the many things looked at. For baseball specifically, I have also tested literally thousands of athletes collegiate and MLB who had poor bench press numbers and what some consider sub par 60 yd. times but were considered '5 tool' players. Point being, the bench and the 40 are not and should not be utilized as the only parameter of athleticism.
Please do not misunderstand. I DID NOT say that Bench was 'not important'. I meant that there were many other lifts done to promote performance that will enhance the overhead athletes strength and shoulder stability.
In training NFL combine athletes I train athletes how to perform the 225# bench test to their maximum potential as well as the other tests administered at the combine. The bnech test is only 1 of the many things looked at. For baseball specifically, I have also tested literally thousands of athletes collegiate and MLB who had poor bench press numbers and what some consider sub par 60 yd. times but were considered '5 tool' players. Point being, the bench and the 40 are not and should not be utilized as the only parameter of athleticism.
Does someone have a picture of a towl chinup that i could look at?
I do...PM me your email address and I will send you the pic from my book Unbreakable Forearms
Coach Jason
I agree that the bench and 40 should not be the only parameters when judging an athlete.
However in any sport (but let's use baseball since this is HSBBW) if you have 2 ball players that are similar in size, use the same bat, and have the same mechanics the physically stronger person will hit the ball harder and farther.
I agree that the bench and 40 should not be the only parameters when judging an athlete.
However in any sport (but let's use baseball since this is HSBBW) if you have 2 ball players that are similar in size, use the same bat, and have the same mechanics the physically stronger person will hit the ball harder and farther.
The biggest key is having strength that is transferable from the weight room to the diamond.
"Strength" is a very broad term and maximal and absolute strength play a very small role on the field, while reactive and starting strength are key to optimal performance.
"Strength" is a very broad term and maximal and absolute strength play a very small role on the field, while reactive and starting strength are key to optimal performance.
Jon-agree to a certain extent. But once again if you are physically stonger in the weight room, some of it will have to carry over to the diamond. Again, if you have 2 players that are both 6'3 220lbs, have comparable coordination, swing mechanics, same bat and one player squats 350 and benches 225 and the other one squats 700 and benches 450 I promise you the second one will hit the ball harder and farther.
Regarding the term "strength"-there are different types of strength. However I have to disagree with the statement you said about absolute and maximal strength. One of the best ways to get "faster" is to get stronger (from a maximal and absolute aspect). And really explosive strength would be more important than starting strength-(starting strength is defined as the recruitment of muscle fibers-explosive strength is low long they can stay "turned on" at a maximal effort). If you start a swing at 100mph and by the time you hit the ball the bat is traveling 90 mph you have lost power.
It amazes me that baseball players don't train more with weights to get stronger. Compare Barry Bonds to when he first came into the league-you can tell he has put some serious time into training with weights and his numbers reflect this.
Regarding the term "strength"-there are different types of strength. However I have to disagree with the statement you said about absolute and maximal strength. One of the best ways to get "faster" is to get stronger (from a maximal and absolute aspect). And really explosive strength would be more important than starting strength-(starting strength is defined as the recruitment of muscle fibers-explosive strength is low long they can stay "turned on" at a maximal effort). If you start a swing at 100mph and by the time you hit the ball the bat is traveling 90 mph you have lost power.
It amazes me that baseball players don't train more with weights to get stronger. Compare Barry Bonds to when he first came into the league-you can tell he has put some serious time into training with weights and his numbers reflect this.
Zacksdad,
I will be the last one to argue overall strength. I just wanted to make sure everyone reading knows there are various aspects of strength and they need to be developed to become a complete player.
Often, focus is soley on the weight on the bar and in most cases that is insignificant in relationship to posture, power/force output and bar speed.
You obviously know the bech press very well and we agree on technique as you can see in an early post of mine in this thread.
The only thing we differ on is maximal strength will always make you faster. In most cases yes (especially beginners), but when speed and starting strength development is non-existant in most programs there will be huge gaps in performance development. The strongest guys in the world certainly are not the fastest. But I certainly understand your point. Just want to make sure the readers know there is more to baseball conditioning than the weight on the bar.
I will be the last one to argue overall strength. I just wanted to make sure everyone reading knows there are various aspects of strength and they need to be developed to become a complete player.
Often, focus is soley on the weight on the bar and in most cases that is insignificant in relationship to posture, power/force output and bar speed.
You obviously know the bech press very well and we agree on technique as you can see in an early post of mine in this thread.
The only thing we differ on is maximal strength will always make you faster. In most cases yes (especially beginners), but when speed and starting strength development is non-existant in most programs there will be huge gaps in performance development. The strongest guys in the world certainly are not the fastest. But I certainly understand your point. Just want to make sure the readers know there is more to baseball conditioning than the weight on the bar.
Develop your lower body strength. Squats and deadlifts will add stability, balance and speed to your windup, delivery and follow thru. Core body strength is the key to power in throwing and hitting. Upper body and lower body must be worked equally to create balance throughout the body and to avoid injury.