This is the good old USA, so of course it is right and proper that everyone do what is best for them and make choices accordingly.
The problem can be that for a parent or a kid to make the right choice, they need knowledge and good judgement. Often a parent (even a knowledgeable one) is one of the last people who can make an accurate assessment of how talented their son is. It is very flattering for a kid or a parent to have someone tell them that the sky is the limit and that playing on this team and spending this money is the best way to get to the top.
What they aren't being told is that when they find a better player(s)at your son's position he will either rot on the bench or be dropped from the team. What happened to the kid who your son replaced? You may be told about "their kids" who made it, but they aren't telling you about all "their kids" who didn't.
Check out the realities... how much scholarship money do kids really get? How many of these kids are still at the school they originally signed with? How many kids really get scholarship money? What is the difference between playing on Bergen Beach and The McHenry County Hurricanes? Does your son really even know what playing College Baseball means? Do you or him know how many kids like him there are out there and how few of them get drafted? It's a great dream, but that is where it should be......if it happens it is a dream come true. What will your son give up in other ways just to increase his chances by a few percentage points (from nil to a little more than nil) of making it big time in baseball? And just how much treasure (not a factor for some but very much so for others) should you give up because you have been flattered so?
After what I've seen over the years, a kid can make it if he has the talent no matter JUST ABOUT who he plays for. The kid at our HS this last year who got D-1 money played house ball as a 14 year old, and Legion until he was 17. A kid a few years ago made it to TCU without every playing anything but local "travelers" and American Legion. He was all-everything after his senior year in HS. Spend time and money finding out where he wants to go to school and what the experience is likely to be. Have him work on his grades as much or more than baseball.....the amount of academic money out there is far greater than that available to athletics, especially for a boy in a Title 9 affected sport.
Last but not least, make sure he enjoys playing where he is because in the end that is what really matters. To leave an environment where he is happy and thriving to go to a "Big-Time" Program based upon promises for the future makes no sense unless your son is in the top 99.9% of talent in The Western Hemisphere.
Keep in mind that the vast majority of kids we read about in the paper and talked about here a couple of years ago are no longer playing at all. We don't like recognize it, but the pyramid applies to our kids as well. Just play baseball and enjoy it for what it is right now.
JHMO
Well said, Fastball...I couldn't agree more.
Wow! That was great FastballDad!
Here...this one's on me...enjoy!
Here...this one's on me...enjoy!
Read again, I have not passed judgement on know one individual nor the evolution of the travel ball experience. I do not know the coach you referred to and am not interested in trashing any program, Bergen Beach was used as an example, except with specific example with our conference player. I don't believe stating factual information is passing judgement on any one person or organization. Bergenhschamp, the only national team that I am aware of is team USA and if I was fortunate to have a son that would be asked to represent his country, then I would encourage him to accept. But to ask him to represent a community for which he has no tie in or civic pride toward is unacceptable to me.
Thanks Woody, but I prefer Blueberry!
quote:Originally posted by FastballDad:
Thanks Woody, but I prefer Blueberry!
Woody,
He is a cubs fan afterall...
Fastball-
Well said. Bravo.
Well said. Bravo.
Clicko, Clicko, Presto!
It might just be me, but that is the grossest looking piece of pie I have ever seen.
...Then again, having seen Gotwood and his creativity, I soon will see an even grosser piece.
...Then again, having seen Gotwood and his creativity, I soon will see an even grosser piece.
Sorry, Gotwood...I have to agree with Weaver on this one. Kinda looks like something I ran over on the Edens the other day. I could be wrong, but I believe that's a piece of "roadkill a la mode." Nevertheless, nothing that a gallon of Jack Daniels couldn't wash down.
looks like a talkkuna blueberry pie - a finnish delight... altho it sounds like weaver and braves would not "finish" a piece if given a chance... not exactly the kind of pie we're accustomed to, that's for sure and now that I study it, it really does look rather disgusting. This is actually pretty old school stuff - not sure how much talkkuna is still even used in finland.
Well said Fastball!
It is a sad fact that I see so many parents that think because their child is playing for an "elite" team, they are "set". I coach a small town team that is made up of kids from only two towns. The boys go to school together, they love playing together and they have better fundamentals than some of the so called "elite" teams we play. They are not all six footers so they had to learn to pitch, not just throw. They learned how to execute a proper run down, proper relays,great pick off moves, they know how to bunt, etc.
In my opinion they will be better prepared for high school ball than some of the "elite" players we see.Parents throw so much money down the drain in search of a dream that while it is great for a child to dream, it is mostly unlikely to happen.
Are they being coached up or are coaches just grabbing the 12 biggest kids they can get and throwing them on the field?
Some of these "elite"players will get to high school and be no better than a fundamentaly sound player that played for a "lesser travel team".
It is a sad fact that I see so many parents that think because their child is playing for an "elite" team, they are "set". I coach a small town team that is made up of kids from only two towns. The boys go to school together, they love playing together and they have better fundamentals than some of the so called "elite" teams we play. They are not all six footers so they had to learn to pitch, not just throw. They learned how to execute a proper run down, proper relays,great pick off moves, they know how to bunt, etc.
In my opinion they will be better prepared for high school ball than some of the "elite" players we see.Parents throw so much money down the drain in search of a dream that while it is great for a child to dream, it is mostly unlikely to happen.
Are they being coached up or are coaches just grabbing the 12 biggest kids they can get and throwing them on the field?
Some of these "elite"players will get to high school and be no better than a fundamentaly sound player that played for a "lesser travel team".
quote:Originally posted by Baseball14:
All the information for all age groups is on the Bergen Website Check the links at the top of the Home page or for 9U information go here.
9 under elite team? thought you were kidding...and 30 bucks to try out? nice ..
Wogdoggy...are you kidding me? Only $30 to punch your 9-year-old's ticket to the big leagues? Hell, that's a bargain or, should I say, Bergen.
Sadly there are parents out that that think their 9 year old is their ticket to retirement early so they will drop the 30 bucks believing in all the hype.
At 9, let your kid play with his friends and have fun!
The world of travel in any sport is becoming a cruel business.
Sad, Sad, Sad...........
At 9, let your kid play with his friends and have fun!
The world of travel in any sport is becoming a cruel business.
Sad, Sad, Sad...........
Keyword: FUN!
quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:quote:Originally posted by Baseball14:
All the information for all age groups is on the Bergen Website Check the links at the top of the Home page or for 9U information go here.
9 under elite team? thought you were kidding...and 30 bucks to try out? nice ..
and taking 9 yr olds who shave only...lol.
30 bucks to try out your 9 yr old aint that a hoot??
There was a guy a few years back hyping his 8U team as a national elite team---I called him --told him I had a 6 yr old who was a whiz---his answer was simple---we want him---I asked where he would stay etc--all the questions a concerned parent of a 6 year old would ask---now this guy was in Texas and I am in the Northeast and he tells me get him on a plane and we will put him up for the summer and take care of him----ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:quote:Originally posted by Baseball14:
All the information for all age groups is on the Bergen Website Check the links at the top of the Home page or for 9U information go here.
9 under elite team? thought you were kidding...and 30 bucks to try out? nice ..
I'd like to see where in my post I said it was a 9U "Elite" team?? For inquiring minds that want to know, Steve Bort was contacted by a "local" coach who asked to use the Bergen name, nothing more nothing less, no Scott Boras meetings setup for these youngsters......
quote:Originally posted by Baseball14:quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:quote:Originally posted by Baseball14:
All the information for all age groups is on the Bergen Website Check the links at the top of the Home page or for 9U information go here.
9 under elite team? thought you were kidding...and 30 bucks to try out? nice ..
I'd like to see where in my post I said it was a 9U "Elite" team?? For inquiring minds that want to know, Steve Bort was contacted by a "local" coach who asked to use the Bergen name, nothing more nothing less, no Scott Boras meetings setup for these youngsters......
pardon me,,but i always though bergen beach and elite go hand in hand
9U, enough said, then add the word elite, enough is enough.
You guys are amazing, many teams have age groups 9 thru 18? You are shocked at that? Or you have an axe to grind with Bergen? You guys must really be appalled at the Chicago white Sox, for they have given a $600,000 bonus to a 16 year old Latin player. That's just a wee bit older than the 9 year old kids that shave. Not sure if the 16 year old kid is shaving, but I do know that Bort likes the big kids. So it is true if your nine or ten year old is in the 90th percentile in size in his age group and if he shaves send your application in. your kid might then have a chance at winning a world Series, I know that winning doesn't really matter to all of you high and mighty posters. You guys would never think about putting together a team that was actually competitive...naw, you guys are above that. Bergen is the evil empire. I hear the Cubs are looking at this really great 14 year old closer, he throws absolute smoke! They are going to cut the dead weight of Marky mark and Cary Deadwood to make room for his $800,000 bonus.
Exclusive look at the new Cubs recruit!
Yes, people are saying 9 years old is too young to call kids "elite" and stress winning. If you don't get that, you have issues.
I am not going to take a stand on when you can switch to stressing winning, but even at the high school level, teaching along with winning should be stressed. To start to recruit 9, 10 and 11 year olds is clearly too young. It begs the question, who is benefitting, the kids or the adults. Teh answer is self evident.
I am not going to take a stand on when you can switch to stressing winning, but even at the high school level, teaching along with winning should be stressed. To start to recruit 9, 10 and 11 year olds is clearly too young. It begs the question, who is benefitting, the kids or the adults. Teh answer is self evident.
Bergenhschamp, huh? As far as the high and might poster all I have to do is recall your initial post but then again your screen name says it all.
That is Leo Durocher in that Herman Munster pic, in't it? ******* Herman was a classic.
quote:Originally posted by Playball2:
Bergenhschamp, huh? As far as the high and might poster all I have to do is recall your initial post but then again your screen name says it all.
PB2,
It's looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... found himself a new set of feathers, but still posts like a duck.
Doesnt exactly do a great job of trying to disguise it either .
quote:your kid might then have a chance at winning a world Series,
BSChamp (sorry forgot the H (on purpose)) the series starts next week and only those athletes have the right to call themselves the elite players of the game.
"I am not going to take a stand on when you can switch to stressing winning, but even at the high school level, teaching along with winning should be stressed."
I, for one, have never stressed winning at any age level as that is one thing that a coach (or his players) has any ultimate control over. If that were the case, we would never lose. Instead, I stress competing to the best of our ability and the winning will take care of itself. The whole essence of mental toughness is to focus on those things you can control and not dwell on those things you can't.
Further, and especially at the youth levels, some of the most valuable learning opportunities result from losses rather than wins. Not that I would ever emphasize losing but, in the big picture, it's all about developing our young ballplayers regardless of the won-loss record...that's simply a number. Just my opinion.
I, for one, have never stressed winning at any age level as that is one thing that a coach (or his players) has any ultimate control over. If that were the case, we would never lose. Instead, I stress competing to the best of our ability and the winning will take care of itself. The whole essence of mental toughness is to focus on those things you can control and not dwell on those things you can't.
Further, and especially at the youth levels, some of the most valuable learning opportunities result from losses rather than wins. Not that I would ever emphasize losing but, in the big picture, it's all about developing our young ballplayers regardless of the won-loss record...that's simply a number. Just my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by bergenhschamp:
CPLZ and Braves Coach, Where is the anger and bitterness coming from? I talked to Steve today, They had an excellent turnout, Hank Lott ran the show and did a great job. Steve described him as a class act who ran a very professional camp/tryout. They had two other major league players on staff helping. They ran a showcase with pitching, fielding and hitting evaluation. Each kid was given individual time and they finished with a game simulation. Some of the kids will get invited to play on Bergen National teams. Every kid will get an evaluation. Not sure what there is to be disgusted at (Braves Coach) You seem to be very upset about Bergen running a camp/tryout? Tell us what fuels your bitterness (does your kid play for a certain team that came very close to winning the HS World Series)?
CPLZ, why don't you talk to some of the parents that have kids in the Bergen organization before you spout off. My kid has played two years for Steve, We have all had a great experience with Steve and staff, did I mention we won a World Series...My son made friends with kids from all over the country, did I mention that my son has several offers from Division 1 schools...did I mention that Steve did more for my kid than other coaches that will remain nameless...I'm not bitter about the Bergen organization, not sure if any others are, I doubt it, the only ones that seem bitter, are the hack posters that hide behind screen names and take shots at guys like Steve Bort or Hank Lott. In some circles Bort is considered legendary ask about him in Brooklyn...with 41 former Bergen players now active in Major League Baseball, don't you think he deserves a little respect...Coach!
That sounds like a great event bchamp. I wonder where it was held?! Maybe Bort fell asleep in the dugout and dreamed it. Here's the real deal:
Individual Time = start this drill while I go over to this other group and get them started. I didn't see any individual time given to a participant. And no more feedback than you would see at any tryout. As for an evaluation, no one on one feedback and no evaluation sent to the player. Which is unfortunate because the main reason my son wanted to attend was to get an honest evaluation. By the way, he's stopped asking if we've heard or seen anything on the feedback. He definitely learned something but I don't think it had anything to do with baseball. The event ended an hour early, maybe that time could have been used to give some one on one feedback. As for the motivation for the event, I think it can be summed up with this. Before the event we received several calls from Bort to see if we knew any other kids that wanted to attend. After the event no calls, no feedback, no eval. Probably to busy making calls trying to fill the next event$.
quote:In some circles Bort is considered legendary ask about him in Brooklyn...with 41 former Bergen players now active in Major League Baseball, don't you think he deserves a little respect...Coach!
Bergen - one thing I learned a long time ago is that respect is not a right but a privilege. Respect must be earned and not simply bestowed upon you. While Mr. Bort has your respect, he has not yet earned mine nor a whole bunch of others' in this area. And, based upon Otterman's personal observations and experience, I suspect that Mr. Bort will soon reach legendary status here in the midwest as well...though not for the reasons you espouse.
Welcome aboard the HSBBW Otterman12.
Gotwood, how dare you say such a...er...oh, you said something nice to someone.
My bad.
My bad.
I'll surprise ya' every once in awhile. 
Thanks GW. I've enjoyed paging through the posts. Lots of good information and questions.
quote:Originally posted by bergenhschamp:
You guys are amazing, many teams have age groups 9 thru 18? You are shocked at that? Or you have an axe to grind with Bergen? You guys must really be appalled at the Chicago white Sox, for they have given a $600,000 bonus to a 16 year old Latin player. That's just a wee bit older than the 9 year old kids that shave. Not sure if the 16 year old kid is shaving, but I do know that Bort likes the big kids. So it is true if your nine or ten year old is in the 90th percentile in size in his age group and if he shaves send your application in. your kid might then have a chance at winning a world Series, I know that winning doesn't really matter to all of you high and mighty posters. You guys would never think about putting together a team that was actually competitive...naw, you guys are above that. Bergen is the evil empire. I hear the Cubs are looking at this really great 14 year old closer, he throws absolute smoke! They are going to cut the dead weight of Marky mark and Cary Deadwood to make room for his $800,000 bonus.
for having such "STACKED " teams you guys seem to struggle against some of the mediocre stacked teams in the area..