What are your thoughts on the NFHS putting into effect the ban of BESR composite barrels for next year? With now the BBCOR requirement for composite barrels starting next season?
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I'm thinking, darn, I have to buy a new bat now.
LOL...true. Also as one that works at a facility with a pro shop I'm thinking "Can I return these 2011 composites I just did a booking order for"?
It makes me happy. My son never used them. Plus he pitches on occaision. 
I agree Doughnutman, if it was up to me we would be using wood in HS.....
Well, I know I am not supposed to post on subjects that talk about bats (that is a joke CD) but I think they are a year late. I thought the NFHS should have mirrored college baseball on this one.
The old saying "better late than never" still holds true.
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4052
The old saying "better late than never" still holds true.
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4052
I like jokes! 
Seriously, I was wrong in my previous assessments and I apologize for that 1baseballdad.
Seriously, I was wrong in my previous assessments and I apologize for that 1baseballdad.
It's about time, those comp bats are scary. Plus as Doughnutman says - my son doesn't use one anyway.
CD, no worries at all. Hard to tell what is really going on with a one dimensional forum.
Thats fine by me. My son doesn't actually like the CF3 that he has now. He prefers the Voodoo (composite handle, metal barrel) because the feel is better for him.
If the bats get 'hotter' as they are used then they need to be banned. To me that is just a form of cheating. I have no problem with composites if they didn't develop the way the do through use or rolling. Maybe they need to develop a way of evaluating the bats and approve them only after they have been rolled and then tested.
If the bats get 'hotter' as they are used then they need to be banned. To me that is just a form of cheating. I have no problem with composites if they didn't develop the way the do through use or rolling. Maybe they need to develop a way of evaluating the bats and approve them only after they have been rolled and then tested.
What would be a good bat to buy this fall then. Would the exo bats meet the new criteria?
#22 Dad, there are some quality non composite barrel bats on the market. To my understanding the NFHS has not said when they will go with a BBCOR only bat just a BBCOR composite barrel at this point. So BESR non composites are fine for next season. We have had a good amount of kids like the Voodoo, Nike Aero Fuse, and Exo.
Maryland Muddog,
Thanks for the help. Just so I understand then.. you can buy a bat with a composite handle, but the barrel has to be aluminum? #22 is swinging a demarini cf3 right now. Are the half and half bats going to be o.k.?
Thanks for the help. Just so I understand then.. you can buy a bat with a composite handle, but the barrel has to be aluminum? #22 is swinging a demarini cf3 right now. Are the half and half bats going to be o.k.?
This is what's on the NFHS site.
"Under the new rule, bats with composite handles and tapers would still be legal."
"Under the new rule, bats with composite handles and tapers would still be legal."
Maybe this will give AB7 in the California legislature a kick to move forward. I would much rather not spend any more money on bats and let him use his Baum next year instead of having to buy yet another $350 bat.
My son doesn't use a composite. Last winter the high school coach warned the players not to buy them with the idea they could use them past this year. Composites eliminated is step one. It's one step in the right direction there's a problem and one step in the direction towards wood.
I too hope that AB7 passes in CA soon so I won't have to buy another metal bat for 2012 son. It was strange when our HS played a Marin County school in the NCS playoffs and our coach elected to stay with metal, while they had to use wood. Not saying it was the wrong decision, but it was just a weird feeling. It would be nice if they would decide soon, so he knows what to practice with during the off-season.
quote:It would be nice if they would decide soon, so he knows what to practice with during the off-season.
It would be nice to know, but there's no down side to practicing with wood. Many players use wood in practice even if they use metal in games because wood gives them better feedback.
Yep, that is what my son is doing. 13 years old, 8th grader.
He is starting to hit in the cage and practicing with wood and only using his metal bats in game.
He seems to like it. I almost had to threaten him to get him to start doing it but now he actually prefers to hit wood in the cage.
It seems safer for me when I do front toss or light pitching to him.
He is starting to hit in the cage and practicing with wood and only using his metal bats in game.
He seems to like it. I almost had to threaten him to get him to start doing it but now he actually prefers to hit wood in the cage.
It seems safer for me when I do front toss or light pitching to him.
That's what we've done as well. My youngest started swinging a cheap Louisville -5 maple bat at 11, & by this last Spring at 13 he was alternating between 32" & 33" wood cage bats in BP.
Besides building a really strong swing, using wood in BP took a bunch of wear & tear off his game bat.
After flatspotting a few -8.5 Exo's in the 12's, our boys favorite game bats this last season were a pair of -7 CF4's. Very hot bat in a strong hitter's hands. For school ball, picked up a sweet deal on a -3 Exo, a bunch of my sons teammates have done the same. All figure they'll get at least some Fall ball & a Spring out of these first -3 bats before they outgrow them & BBCOR bats are required.
Besides building a really strong swing, using wood in BP took a bunch of wear & tear off his game bat.
After flatspotting a few -8.5 Exo's in the 12's, our boys favorite game bats this last season were a pair of -7 CF4's. Very hot bat in a strong hitter's hands. For school ball, picked up a sweet deal on a -3 Exo, a bunch of my sons teammates have done the same. All figure they'll get at least some Fall ball & a Spring out of these first -3 bats before they outgrow them & BBCOR bats are required.
quote:Maybe this will give AB7 in the California legislature a kick to move forward. I would much rather not spend any more money on bats and let him use his Baum next year instead of having to buy yet another $350 bat.
If your read the reasoning and intent of the bill, your sons Baum bat should not be legal either.
"(h) The Legislature notes that nonwooden bats are prohibited at the major and minor league levels, and baseball is a game of traditions which suggests that consideration should be given to whether the use of nonwooden bats is consistent with the traditions and highest standards of the game."
Text of AB7
Baum bats are not legal for use in the Major Leagues and are in fact, composit bats, wrapped with wood.
http://www.baumbat.com/aboutUs.html
This is just one reason why I think legislation like this is such a bad idea. I am not trying to nitpick you BOF but when you make things law, this is what you need to be prepared for. That is all I am trying to say.
Baum Bats are legal to use in the lower minor leagues and are coveted (and stolen) by players for their durability and ash-like performance.
If the intent of the bill is to require bats that hit like wood, Baum Bats should certainly be consistent with that.
Legislation should center around whether the bat has a barrel that deforms at contact and then springs back or not. Baum Bats do not, just like wood.
If the intent of the bill is to require bats that hit like wood, Baum Bats should certainly be consistent with that.
Legislation should center around whether the bat has a barrel that deforms at contact and then springs back or not. Baum Bats do not, just like wood.
Yeah,I agree. if it was up to me we would be using wood in HS.....
So I am a little confused. According to this June 2009 press release, in 2011/2012 season, all bats must be BBCOR approved.
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=2772
But now in 2010/2011 they are outlawing the composite bats.
So if a player has a composite bat now the player must buy a non-composite barrel bat for 2010/2011 but do the new bats have a BBCOR approval already? Otherwise you need to buy a bat for this year and then a new BBCOR approved bat in another year.
I actually have no problem with the changes but it sounds confusing and will have people spend money twice... Just make both rules go into effect at the same time then...
TC
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=2772
But now in 2010/2011 they are outlawing the composite bats.
So if a player has a composite bat now the player must buy a non-composite barrel bat for 2010/2011 but do the new bats have a BBCOR approval already? Otherwise you need to buy a bat for this year and then a new BBCOR approved bat in another year.
I actually have no problem with the changes but it sounds confusing and will have people spend money twice... Just make both rules go into effect at the same time then...
TC
This recent news banned the full composite BESR rated -3's from NFHS & college use for next season (2011). The BBCOR bat standards goes in effect for all -3 bats used in NFHS play the following 2012 season.
If you ck the manufacturers websites you will start seeing a few BBCOR rated -3 bats. For example, Louisville Slugger is showing two different -3 models of the 2011 Exo. One is noted for college & is BBCOR rated, the other, the CB11EX2 is noted for HS, & is BESR rated.
If you ck the manufacturers websites you will start seeing a few BBCOR rated -3 bats. For example, Louisville Slugger is showing two different -3 models of the 2011 Exo. One is noted for college & is BBCOR rated, the other, the CB11EX2 is noted for HS, & is BESR rated.
quote:Originally posted by brute66:
Baum Bats are legal to use in the lower minor leagues and are coveted (and stolen) by players for their durability and ash-like performance.
From direct experience I knew this wasn't true at Long Season A and Advanced A and had to check with some MiLB umpires to see if and where it was true.
MiLB allows Baum bats to be used in games at the Rookie League level only this season.
Yes, that is the key point. I would go a bit further and require bats to be of solid construction and substantially uniform density, at least in the barrel. If the bat barrel isn't solid, the bat may age (like the recently banned composites) and end up having a trampoline effect in spite of meeting certification requirements.quote:Originally posted by brute66:
Legislation should center around whether the bat has a barrel that deforms at contact and then springs back or not.
The current CA bill bans any non-wood materials. That's good for tradition, but it won't provide the combination of safety and durability that Baum bats and laminated bamboo bats can provide.
im not too happy about it. i just got a $300 bat. its rediculous that id have to buy a new one for freshman ball next spring. i really dont see why it would get changed. ive hit some balls harder with wood bats than my aluminum/composite. ya they have pop and all but you still gotta hit the sweet spot. balls are still gunna be crushed so i dont see how changing regulations on bats would help. look at how many major league pitchers get nailed with liners. same for college and HS. the deadened bats will still get balls hit hard
quote:Originally posted by bulldog2010:
im not too happy about it. i just got a $300 bat. its rediculous that id have to buy a new one for freshman ball next spring. i really dont see why it would get changed. ive hit some balls harder with wood bats than my aluminum/composite. ya they have pop and all but you still gotta hit the sweet spot. balls are still gunna be crushed so i dont see how changing regulations on bats would help. look at how many major league pitchers get nailed with liners. same for college and HS. the deadened bats will still get balls hit hard
If you are suggesting that there is no difference in the performance of wood bats and aluminum bats, you are in a very small minority.
Major leaguer pitchers get nailed by major league batters. There is a heck of difference between a ball coming off a wood bat of a major league batter and ball coming off the wood bat of a high school batter.
no i guess i wrote that weird. i think that there is a performance difference yes. but the thing is you still gotta get the sweet spot to get that hard liner and everything. aluminum/composite will give you bloop singles that are brokent bat pop outs with wood. im just saying that balls get roped with both styles. granted: i like using wood. i like the feel and sound. id prefer to use wood. im just saying theres differences AND similarities.
oddly enough too, to deaden the pop, ive been in tournaments and played teams where we used the rubber like balls they use in Tball. which is dumb. my brothers little league used balls like that too. what do you think about that? i find that very odd.but do you think that this too would be an option?
Looks like California (CIF)is adopting the BBCOR standard one year early. Proposed legislation for moratorium banning non-wood was dropped.
http://prepsports.blogs.pressd...-state-high-schools/
http://prepsports.blogs.pressd...-state-high-schools/
Seems like a good approach to me - and talk about creating a much larger market for BBCOR!!!
An FYI from California on wood bats, etal. The CIF just voted to change the HS bat requirements to BECOR. In parallel AB7 (wood bat) bill was withdrawn. Now there is some silliness about requiring infielders to wear helmets. This year it they will be “encouraged”…yeah right I can see coaches “encouraging” their players. There is talk about requiring them in 2012. There was talk about the cost of going to wood and now many of us are going to have to shell out $300-$400 for new bats…. Who need Obama’s stimulus, we have the CIF. Kind of silly, just fix the frigin problem and go to wood !!!!
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...mer-a-wise-move.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...l-on-metal-bats.html
http://www.vcstar.com/news/201...s-to-improve-safety/
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...mer-a-wise-move.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...l-on-metal-bats.html
http://www.vcstar.com/news/201...s-to-improve-safety/
I just spoke with my local "Baseball Retailer." He said that he is shipping all his BESR bats out of state.
He currently has an inventory of about 250 bats which is normal for this time of the year. He said that he has anyone that is buying a BESR bat here in CA sign an acknowlegement saying they are aware that they can not be used after Jan. 1 here in CA for HS ball.
He also indicated that he thought that with the new standard being applied both at the college level and here in CA for next year that there would likely be a shortage of bats at the beginning of the season.
Unless the manufactures ramp up for the new standard; I would initially expect both shortages and somewhat higher prices.
I just love the mandate for safety headgear. I have this vision of infielders playing with football style helmets; masks and all.
He currently has an inventory of about 250 bats which is normal for this time of the year. He said that he has anyone that is buying a BESR bat here in CA sign an acknowlegement saying they are aware that they can not be used after Jan. 1 here in CA for HS ball.
He also indicated that he thought that with the new standard being applied both at the college level and here in CA for next year that there would likely be a shortage of bats at the beginning of the season.
Unless the manufactures ramp up for the new standard; I would initially expect both shortages and somewhat higher prices.
I just love the mandate for safety headgear. I have this vision of infielders playing with football style helmets; masks and all.
quote:Originally posted by ILVBB:
He also indicated that he thought that with the new standard being applied both at the college level and here in CA for next year that there would likely be a shortage of bats at the beginning of the season.
Unless the manufactures ramp up for the new standard; I would initially expect both shortages and somewhat higher prices.
Sounds like this is going to be a pain in the rear? Shortage of bats? Higher prices? I'm sure we'll have some Supply & Demand issues thrown our way? I have to agree with BOF on this one, we have another "Stimulus" plan here in California for baseball families!
Hopefully in regards to safety, this is a step in the right direction...only time will tell!
quote:Now there is some silliness about requiring infielders to wear helmets. This year it they will be “encouraged”…yeah right I can see coaches “encouraging” their players. There is talk about requiring them in 2012.
That sounds kind of familiar.