Best infield tip my son ever recieved

are you talking about darwin barney? i remember watching him during the CWS. he's a very good shortstop.

Yes Barney is very good. But this was 5 yrs ago his name was Will Hudson.

Did you get to see much of their second baseman from last year Chris Kunda? That guy can turn a DP unbelievably fast. Its like he's already throwing it before he catches the ball and from any arm slot.
His coaches swore their was nobody faster than him in the bigs.

JDD, yes perfect way to catch. use glove to stop and deflect into throwing hand all in one motion.
And use proper foot work to make that happen also.
Pancake gloves are a good way to teach this way of infielding the ball.
EH

quote:

Originally posted by JDsDad:
Yes Barney is very good. But this was 5 yrs ago his name was Will Hudson.

Did you get to see much of their second baseman from last year Chris Kunda? That guy can turn a DP unbelievably fast. Its like he's already throwing it before he catches the ball and from any arm slot.
His coaches swore their was nobody faster than him in the bigs.

ya i remember kunda too. i remember him make a play in the hole between first and second. it was a hard hit ground ball that looked like a hit right off the bat. kunda comes out no where and somehow gets that ball. then he got up like super fast and threw him out. he made a lot of great defensive plays in the CWS.

The "pancake glove" EH speaks of is a great training aid. Of course we're talking about MOST balls ---not all balls can be "deflected".

Fungo, Are catchers taught to practice deflecting for steal attempts?

I' guess I'm confused. Does someone actually teach deflecting the ball from the glove to the throwing hand?

Yes because it is a quicker move and shows you have better hands. For example, you wont see many (if any at all) MLB infielders squeezing the ball with one hand and then transfering it to throw later.

JDsDad, No, they are not taught to "deflect" a ball. If you try to “deflect” a 95mph fastball from your glove to your throwing hand it will remove the fingers from your throwing hand. They are taught to "transfer" from the mitt to the throwing hand. For lack of a better word I will use the term "flip" the ball to the throwing hand.
Flip is somewhat misleading because it suggest a pronounced flip and it isn't that at all. It is a very fluid motion. During transfer, the ball is NOT caught and pulled from the mitt. The ball is basically caught, controlled, and released to the throwing hand all in one fluid motion. This action becomes obvious if there is a problem in the transfer from the mitt to the throwing hand. You can see the ball being released by the mitt, but is not controlled by the throwing hand and falls to the ground.
Fungo

quote:

By Shortstop 11 - Yes because it is a quicker move and shows you have better hands. For example, you wont see many (if any at all) MLB infielders squeezing the ball with one hand and then transfering it to throw later.[/

Shortstop 11,

First of all, please understand I'm only trying to help here. If you have been coached differently or believe differently, please forgive me.

IMO - There are no Major League infielders who deflect the ball from the glove to the throwing hand on most ordinary plays. (not intentionally anyway) And I don’t really think it would be any quicker, but it would cause more errors. First they receive (catch the ball) the hands come together and then transfer. In fact, the reason middle infielders usually wear smaller gloves is so that it is easier to find the ball and transfer it rather than have to dig it out of a big deep glove.

Maybe I'm not following this quite right. But if you are deflecting or flipping the ball from your glove to your throwing hand, rather than taking it out of your glove, you will have a problem getting a good 4 seam grip to throw with and you will be bobbling some balls that are unnecessary.

The idea is to be quick but in control of your actions. You can’t throw it until your feet get into position. To make it simple… first catch it, then throwing hand and glove hand work together getting the 4 seam grip while the feet and body are preparing to throw. Some use funneling technique others don’t. There is much more but it doesn’t really pertain to the subject here.

Good hands are very obvious, you don’t have to be flipping and deflecting the ball in order to show good hands. Maybe in juggling but not in baseball. It is not “squeeze” it in the glove and “pull” it out… It is more like using both hands to get better control of the ball and creating a quick smooth transfer at the same time your body and feet are quickly getting into position for the throw. That said, there are certain plays that require different technique, but I’m talking about the large majority of plays made by any position.

Try this… Without using a glove field a ground ball bare handed with one hand and flip it to the other hand and throw. I think you will find it works much better when your throwing hand and fielding hand come together after the ball is fielded.

I sure would be very interested in hearing if there is anyone who disagrees with anything above.

So as to be clear, I understand what people mean by deflecting the ball from glove to throwing hand. Only thing is... It is a theory based on fielding with soft hands (deadening the ball so to speak) and making a quick transfer using both hands. I would call it stopping the ball more than a rebound type thing.

PG,
I know you and I are saying the same thing I'm just not using the right terminology to express myself.
Fungo

PG, I asked my son again to make sure but they do teach deflecting on dp's. The throwing hand is definitely closely involved. I figured it was up to a 2 or 3 inch deflection my son claims you can get away with more. Oregon State always has one of the top fielding pct's in the Pac-10. At OSU's summer camp the coaching staff from George Fox University does most of the work running the show. They teach the same way They won the D-3 World Series a couple yrs. ago and I believe had the highest fielding pct. in all of college.

Fungo, I did'nt think before asking about Catchers. You definitely would'nt want to do it with a 95 mph fb.

PGStaff,
I'm sorry if my post sounded negative. I didn't mean to say it like that I was just trying to say that if it is a close play you don't really have time to catch and then throw. I think we are saying the same thing just using different words and emphasis. I found a video on the MLB site of what I'm trying to say.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/y2006/tracker/search.jsp

If you click on the 3rd pick Evan Longoria, on his 2nd play I think he is "deflecting" the ball.

Two things... Yes there are plays that are do or die types that might even require a bare hand play.

I hate to dispute what Oregon State or anyone else is doing, but here is a comment made by Roberto Alomar... one of the best 2B in baseball. I do know for many years they have been teaching 2B to receive the ball in the pocket toward heel to make the transfer quicker.

Roberto Alomar… One of the best fielding % of any 2B in history of the Major Leagues.

Quote talking about baseball gloves…
• I like my glove to be very flexible so I like soft leather.
• I do not like a glove with a deep pocket because when you are turning a double play, the ball can get lost in a deep pocket. I like a relatively flat, shallow glove, which allows you to find the ball quickly.
• Tying any of the laces that stick out from a glove makes it tighter and more rigid. Since I like my glove to be flexible, I just let the laces dangle. When I get the glove new, all the laces are tied up in knots but they eventually work themselves loose and then I just let them stay that way.
• My glove is pretty small, even for a middle infielder. Second basemen usually have the smallest gloves of all the fielders, and in most cases, shortstops will have slightly bigger gloves than second basemen.
• All of the guys in the clubhouse know that I also don't like anyone putting their hand in my glove. It's built for my hand, and if someone else puts their hand in it to try it on, I can usually tell, because it will feel looser on my hand when I put it back on.
• It's hard to say exactly what makes a good baseball glove, but mostly it has to feel right to you.
• In cold weather, sometimes I will spray some stick-um on the inside of my glove to give my hand a better grip on the inside of the glove. I spray it on the outside of the thumb so I can rub my throwing hand on it for a better grip on the ball for throws.

Definitely going with PG on this one.

Trying to "deflect" a scorching ground with the glove palm can be problematic.

For the standard grounder:
- Good footwork on the approach, keep the feet moving in small steps.
- Always move toward the ball, even if it is a screamer where you only have time for a half step. This puts you in the right physical and mental attitude.
- Bend the knees & get low, the backside should be down (not sticking up in the air). Getting low will help judge the hop better.
- Staying low will also make sure the glove is out in front of the body. This is critical to maintain good, full vision of the ball all the way into the glove with both eyes.
- Start low with the glove & come up if necessary. You can bring the glove up much quicker than you can move it down.
- Get the throwing hand touching the glove as the ball approaches the glove. Some use the "gator grip" (as I taught), others use "pinkie to pinkie". If the hand is not next to the glove, time is wasted getting the throwing hand to the glove for the transfer.
- Bring the glove up while the throwing hand is getting the grip. Some folks want the transfer completed while the glove is still down, but that isn't necessary and gives lesss time to get a decent grip. [This can be done even in the "deflection style".]
- Stay low and get a good right foot plant from which to make a strong throw.

When it comes to backhands, running scoops, diving, etc. then different techniques are required of course.

Just a few thoughts, I'm sure others could do better.

On turning the pivot and receiving DP feeds, I tended to do more "deflection", but the throwing hand was touching the glove. And I must admit I never took time to get a four seam grip when turning the pivot. The throws were accurate enough and I didn't want even a split second spent that wasn't absolutely necessary. For the second bagger, staying low and having a strong right foot plant are critical.


And anyone putting on someone else's glove should be grounds for justifiable homicide.

I am a little confused on the deflection of ground balls, but I do agree with deflecting the ball when turning the double play.

Instead of fingers up we teach fingers pointed out and thumbs up when receiving the ball for double play turns. Instead of catching the ball, it is simply a "deflection" into the throwing hand.

Fernando Vina, MLB Gold Glover, just appeared on Baseball Tonight and described his technique of "deflecting" the ball rather than catching it on the DP feed/pivot.

I think "deflecting" is a term similar to "squashing the bug". You don't really do either of them when you are doing it right. They are more cues to get you to do an action. When I think of "deflecting", I think of the hands remaining motionless while the ball rebounds to the open hand.

On GBs, almost everyone closes their gloves to some degree. You may not close the glove completely, but you do close it at least a little.

On DPs, with soft hands, you can NOT close your glove and make a quick transfer.

When Robbie Alomar was in CLE with Omar Vizquel, he told a story about Vizquel being able to deflect any ball right to his throwing hand. When they would throw it around after an out, Vizquel would simply hold his throwing hand by his ear and would literally deflect the ball into his hand from wherever his glove was. When Alomar would try it, he would always drop the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Quote talking about baseball gloves…
• I like my glove to be very flexible so I like soft leather.
• I do not like a glove with a deep pocket because when you are turning a double play, the ball can get lost in a deep pocket. I like a relatively flat, shallow glove, which allows you to find the ball quickly.
• Tying any of the laces that stick out from a glove makes it tighter and more rigid. Since I like my glove to be flexible, I just let the laces dangle. When I get the glove new, all the laces are tied up in knots but they eventually work themselves loose and then I just let them stay that way.
• My glove is pretty small, even for a middle infielder. Second basemen usually have the smallest gloves of all the fielders, and in most cases, shortstops will have slightly bigger gloves than second basemen.
• All of the guys in the clubhouse know that I also don't like anyone putting their hand in my glove. It's built for my hand, and if someone else puts their hand in it to try it on, I can usually tell, because it will feel looser on my hand when I put it back on.
• It's hard to say exactly what makes a good baseball glove, but mostly it has to feel right to you.
• In cold weather, sometimes I will spray some stick-um on the inside of my glove to give my hand a better grip on the inside of the glove. I spray it on the outside of the thumb so I can rub my throwing hand on it for a better grip on the ball for throws.

PG,

I guess this explains why I never made it to the next level. hahaha I like my gloves the opposite of Alomar:

I HATED soft gloves. I constantly tightened my laces to make sure it was tight and firm...except for the web, which was loose.
I like a deep pocket. I caught everything in the pocket and always knew where to find the ball for transfer
I played with an 11 1/2" pattern, even at 2B

I DO agree with Alomar that NO ONE was EVER allowed to put their hand in my glove.

I'm no middle infielder, but what i've heard from my coach and 'mates, is that you don't catch the ball, you merely use your glove to stop the ball. "catch" it in the palm without closing the glove (read: stop with palm) and use the other hand to keep it from falling out. The only time you ever use the pocket is to catch line drives/pop-ups, etc.

Don't quote me, but thats just what I've heard.

when i turn a douple play i like to be fluid and smooth. i never close my glove, i just kind of stop it with two hands. but when im in the motion of catching it i round the catch into my throw, so its quicker.

My son, 14 at the time, had the opportunity to meet Julio Cruz (Mariners)way back in 1996 and Julio was nice enough to spend about 20 minutes with him going over glove work. Deflecting the ball during a double play was what Julio taught him. My son took that lesson to heart and perfected the art to the point where he seemingly got rid of the ball before he had it. Years later his defensive skills are what afforded him the opportunity to play some pro ball at the double A level in Canada.

And he also gets a bit agitated even today when somebody tries to put on his glove.

Deflecting the ball is a fun trick to learn, but does it happen in the game??? Show me the video.

An infielder neither deflects nor catches routine ground balls - they stop the ball with their glove while covering the ball with their throwing hand. Ground balls are moving, spinning, changing directions... You have to do what will help you be consistent.

On the Alomar quotes: I could lose sleep over somebody cranking on my game glove. Don't touch and/or work on someone's gamer without explicit permission. =)

Here is video of my son deflecting on DP's. He does it all the time in games. The quality of the video leaves a little to be desired. Look at 1:37 and at the very end of the video.

deflecting on DP's

I don't see a deflection... He's not getting his hand all the way in his glove for a transfer on the DPs. Maybe its just a terminology thing?

For the sake of discussion, I will have my business partner "deflect" the ball the way I'm thinking and post a video.

I have to agree. I played it back a few times and tried to stop the frame at the transition point. Finally got it at a frame where his right hand is clearly all the way in the glove to grab the ball.

He IS very quick, though. Terrific quick release and very athletic. Jonathan has grown! He looks great!

Thanks Rob,
How does Jeff like school?
How did fall ball go?

Bobby,

I don't have a lot of video examples, but he does avoid catching the ball in the pocket. His gloves all have a mark in the palm where he deflects. He can get away with using a new glove in games that he's only played catch with a couple times just for the fact that he doesn't need to close his glove.

As promised, a video of deflections as we understand them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0kPumezi6g

What do you think?


PS It's getting cold up here!

Yes you are on the right track

After watching how many he dropped, I would advise not doing this. What happens when a hard hit comes at him with some spin?

I was making throws from right behind the camera. Very controlled (not 95 mph, minimal spin.) Austin would never do this in the game and this is more of a trick than anything else.

JDsDad - My four-year-old gamer still stays open if you drop it on the ground. I don't want my glove to close around the ball because the clock and/or runner doesn't wait for me while I'm reaching in the for the ball. Most new infielders I work with end up buying a new glove after a few sessions because they realize how important this is - to stop the ball versus catching the ball (and how their loose/creased/pancake glove doesn't let them repeat it.) And I think that's the whole point with the deflection cue - get it out of the glove!

Deflection, to me, is as the video shows so I personally wouldn't attempt in a game or teach with this phrasing. It is fun though!

It does take practice he's been doing it since he was ten. Anytime he's playing catch he works on it. He was also told to practice it while watching TV. Most of the time I don't think my son does it more than an inch or two. In the video it looks like you guys were trying to do it 3 or 4 inches.

I think of it not so much as deflecting the ball into the throwing hand, like was done in the video, where the ball would literally bank off the glove pocket toward the throwing hand.

What I see good infielders do is more have the glove "stop" the ball rather than "catch" the ball. The glove doesn't close around the ball, and the throwing hand then takes it out in one smooth motion.

Seems to me this would be a fairly simple matter to prove/disprove. Have a highly skilled infielder perform the action (turning a double play) using a pancake glove.

I think that maybe deflecting is the wrong term here.
Stopping the ball at the sametime a transferring to the throwing hand is a better term.
Just a fluid form of getting the ball into the throwing hand and positioning the body with the feet.
The throwing hand is in the glove at transfer, stopped ball bounces to throwing hand all in one fluid movement.

EH

My guy does a "drill" where he holds his glove hand up and when the ball hits the glove he would deflect it into his bare hand. He could have his glove and bare hand 3 feet apart and the ball will deflect right into his bare hand.

It was actually a drill that was taught to him by a MIF that played 11+ years in the Bigs including at least one world series.

When they first began to work together he set my son up about 25 feet away and without a glove would deflect the ball off their bare glove hand and into the throwing hand. My son has gotten very good at it and I know that there are players around the country that he has taught this to that are playing now for instance Taylor Motter at Coastal.

It is very cool to watch when he is warming up before a game. I believe it demonstrates a fairly high degree of glove control and an understanding of where the baseball is.

In game situations I am sure that he does some deflecting while turning a DP. Not to the extent that his throwing hand is outside the pocket, but he does not reach in for the ball...the ball bounces off his glove and into his close by hand and is then thrown.

I remember seeing it in action very close up a few years back. He was playing 3rd and there was a play at the plate. He was no more then 15 feet from the plate to receive a cut and the player was at least even with him when the ball arrived. It was in and out to the catcher quicker then you could believe and the out was recorded at the plate.

The next game all the infielders were trying to learn the move and practicing it during warm-ups!

Take a look at old footage from the turn of the century thru the twenty's.
Most used a form of transfer that were talking about.
Those Gloves were used to stop the ball as much as catch it.
You will always see there throwing hand right at the mitt ready for the transfer and there feet and body position moving to make the throw.
I always thought it looked like smooth and graceful fielding in motion.

EH

quote:

Originally posted by BobbyTewks:
As promised, a video of deflections as we understand them.... What do you think?

Great clip, I think you said it best, not a routine play for an infielder, off the bat.

GED10 calls it a transfer too, not a deflection. He has very strong hands, so he prefers a mitt that has a medium-to-shallow pocket.

GED10DaD