Can someone direct me to what they believe to be the best long toss program there is? I am an outfielder and I have a pretty good arm, but I want to have a cannon from the outfield. Any help would be appreciated.
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I don't know about best, but we use Jaeger. When The Kid broke the bands we got bigger ones from Oates Specialties. Couldn't be happier with both.
Do you have somebody knowledgeable to work with you on technique and mechanics?
Do you have somebody knowledgeable to work with you on technique and mechanics?
I used this program: http://www.baseballfit.com/baseball-pitches.htm
My thoughts on it:
- very effective if used properly. This is only for the offseason. In the offseason, if you don't have anywhere to throw outside/a partner, you can throw the balls into the a net.
- Don't use this in-season. The throwing volume is just too much.
- Here are the results I recieved freshman year from 6 weeks on the program: SS-1B velo started at 72, ended at 79. Pretty good increase for 6 weeks. I didn't use it this off-season because I was recovering from elbow surgery, but plan on using it next off-season.
- Listen to your body...there is a lot of throwing, if you are hurting, don't push through just to complete the program.
Hope this helps, good luck.
My thoughts on it:
- very effective if used properly. This is only for the offseason. In the offseason, if you don't have anywhere to throw outside/a partner, you can throw the balls into the a net.
- Don't use this in-season. The throwing volume is just too much.
- Here are the results I recieved freshman year from 6 weeks on the program: SS-1B velo started at 72, ended at 79. Pretty good increase for 6 weeks. I didn't use it this off-season because I was recovering from elbow surgery, but plan on using it next off-season.
- Listen to your body...there is a lot of throwing, if you are hurting, don't push through just to complete the program.
Hope this helps, good luck.
Does anybody know of a program that does not cost money?
I haven't done this but got from someone on here. I think it was TPM (I apologize if you're not the one who put this on here before) who described this before but I may be wrong. It's something I really want to put in place next time I'm a head coach.
Go to a football field.
Throw to get loose from 15 yards apart
Back up to 30 yards and make 7 - 10 throws
Back up to 40 yards and make 7 - 10 throws
Back up to 50 yards and make 7 - 10 throws
Back up to 60 yards (other 40 yard line) and make 7 - 10 throws
Keep going back until the throws are 1 - 2 hopping your partner. Once you get there you have reached your max distance.
Now work your way back in
From 50 yards make 3 - 5 throws on as straight a line as you can get.
From 40 yards make 3 - 5 throws on a straight line
From 30 yards make 3 - 5 throws on a straight line
From 20 yards make 7 - 10 throws on a straight line
Do this every other day in the offseason.
I've never done this nor have I have ever seen the results from someone who has done this. I just think this is an awesome plan and you can truly see measurable gains by using the yard lines.
The range of throws to be made is something I do with my guys. If they feel good then then can go ahead and back it up. If they don't quite have it then make a few extra throws to see if they are loose or if that just happens to be the max they have for that day.
If you decide to use this then let us / me know how it goes and if it's worth it. It just seems like something that would work wonders to me.
Go to a football field.
Throw to get loose from 15 yards apart
Back up to 30 yards and make 7 - 10 throws
Back up to 40 yards and make 7 - 10 throws
Back up to 50 yards and make 7 - 10 throws
Back up to 60 yards (other 40 yard line) and make 7 - 10 throws
Keep going back until the throws are 1 - 2 hopping your partner. Once you get there you have reached your max distance.
Now work your way back in
From 50 yards make 3 - 5 throws on as straight a line as you can get.
From 40 yards make 3 - 5 throws on a straight line
From 30 yards make 3 - 5 throws on a straight line
From 20 yards make 7 - 10 throws on a straight line
Do this every other day in the offseason.
I've never done this nor have I have ever seen the results from someone who has done this. I just think this is an awesome plan and you can truly see measurable gains by using the yard lines.
The range of throws to be made is something I do with my guys. If they feel good then then can go ahead and back it up. If they don't quite have it then make a few extra throws to see if they are loose or if that just happens to be the max they have for that day.
If you decide to use this then let us / me know how it goes and if it's worth it. It just seems like something that would work wonders to me.
One thing I forgot to add is that on the backing up phase just air it out. Doesn't matter how high you throw it - just air it out. If you hit a low flying plane then so be it but air it out.
That being said don't do it at the expense of just launching it where you're jerking your head and all that stuff. Still keep pretty good mechanics with the throw - just gain as much distance as you can.
That being said don't do it at the expense of just launching it where you're jerking your head and all that stuff. Still keep pretty good mechanics with the throw - just gain as much distance as you can.
Go to youtube and look up Jaeger and long toss and you will find enough to get started. There is no magic here. Frankly the $35 for the thrive on throwing CD is worth the money.
My opinion will also be same.You should go for Jaeger and long toss.
I would be careful with an extreme long toss program like Jaeger's. ASMI did a case study on this type of practice and the results were negative. They advise caution with using these programs for training or rehabilitation due to the stress it puts on the elbow. Here is the case study they performed recently.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21212502
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21212502
Sorry TopVelocity you are wrong about about this there was a long discssion on this previously here. CADad also found some miss measurements in their data taking, methods.
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
Sorry TopVelocity you are wrong about about this there was a long discssion on this previously here. CADad also found some miss measurements in their data taking, methods.
I have a different memory of that thread. Can you link it?
crossover symmetry has a long toss program that even incorporates positional catch. Below is the link to download the program.
http://www.crossoversymmetry.com/media.php
http://www.crossoversymmetry.com/media.php
I have a different memory of that thread. Can you link it?[/QUOTE]
I will go find it next week and ping CADad.
I will go find it next week and ping CADad.
ASMI did their measurements of velocity during that study with the gun in the same location behind the throwers. Therefore they almost certainly under recorded the velocity of the max distance long toss by 3 to 6 mph. This higher velocity is consistent with the higher extension velocities and higher loads seen in max distance long toss. In other words, the loads are higher in max distance long toss because the players are throwing harder when doing max distance long toss.
This means that chances are that the long toss advocates are correct and that it does potentially lead to higher throwing velocities. Yes, the loads are higher than with flat ground throwing "on a line" but that is what one would expect when throwing the ball faster.
I've discussed this with ASMI and they agree that the positioning of the radar gun was incorrect but stand by the results. Given that it would be rather simple for them to check the velocity differences due to the gun positioning I find this to be a rather egregious lack of scientific rigor to put it nicely. Hopefully at some point they will check and we can all draw the proper conclusions from the study whatever they may be.
In the meantime, I can't conclusively state that the conclusions of their study are wrong without finding a way to measure the actual error due to gun positioning but my opinion is that the study was flawed and that their conclusions were misleading.
This means that chances are that the long toss advocates are correct and that it does potentially lead to higher throwing velocities. Yes, the loads are higher than with flat ground throwing "on a line" but that is what one would expect when throwing the ball faster.
I've discussed this with ASMI and they agree that the positioning of the radar gun was incorrect but stand by the results. Given that it would be rather simple for them to check the velocity differences due to the gun positioning I find this to be a rather egregious lack of scientific rigor to put it nicely. Hopefully at some point they will check and we can all draw the proper conclusions from the study whatever they may be.
In the meantime, I can't conclusively state that the conclusions of their study are wrong without finding a way to measure the actual error due to gun positioning but my opinion is that the study was flawed and that their conclusions were misleading.
CADad, you need to quit your day job. Your knowledge of the science of pitching is mind-boggling. To boot, your writing is always clear, convincing, and succint.
Those that oppose long-toss are entitled to their opinions, of course, but given that so many talented pitchers today incorporate the routine into their workout regimines begs empirical scientific data. ASMI can certainly do a followup study on this without fear of egg on their face; if not, CADad, I think you're the man for the job.
Those that oppose long-toss are entitled to their opinions, of course, but given that so many talented pitchers today incorporate the routine into their workout regimines begs empirical scientific data. ASMI can certainly do a followup study on this without fear of egg on their face; if not, CADad, I think you're the man for the job.
SOS.etal:
Here was the thread on the original discussion on the ASMI study.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...941/m/9527005995/p/1
It indicated that there were higher velocities and loads for the LTossers, but as CADad pointed out the higher loads would be consistent with higher velocities, and as CADad had also discovered they probably under reported the velocities by another 3-6 MPH because of errors in their measurement taking.
I just got one of Strom’s email updates today and he was talking about the lack of athleticism and athletic training for pitchers, and this is something that I don’t recall being discussed is the potentially other benefit for long tossing is the fact that it develops an athletic approach to throwing, even though you are not specifically on the mound based. Food for thought anyway.
Here was the thread on the original discussion on the ASMI study.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...941/m/9527005995/p/1
It indicated that there were higher velocities and loads for the LTossers, but as CADad pointed out the higher loads would be consistent with higher velocities, and as CADad had also discovered they probably under reported the velocities by another 3-6 MPH because of errors in their measurement taking.
I just got one of Strom’s email updates today and he was talking about the lack of athleticism and athletic training for pitchers, and this is something that I don’t recall being discussed is the potentially other benefit for long tossing is the fact that it develops an athletic approach to throwing, even though you are not specifically on the mound based. Food for thought anyway.
Son is looking to start long toss program this fall. I have two questions I have not been able to find answers to:
1) If you do the long toss for 6 weeks, do the benefits carry over to spring? I am thinking no - just like most exercising, it seems like something that should be done on a continually.
2) During the season he has continued to go to the gym to maintain strength. He is now ready to increase the weights and gain more strength. Is it safe to lift while long tossing?
thanks for any advice
1) If you do the long toss for 6 weeks, do the benefits carry over to spring? I am thinking no - just like most exercising, it seems like something that should be done on a continually.
2) During the season he has continued to go to the gym to maintain strength. He is now ready to increase the weights and gain more strength. Is it safe to lift while long tossing?
thanks for any advice
I will take a stab at your questions.
1. Like all training there is a loss of benefits over time, depending how long the layoff determines the loss of strength and condition. In general a trained athlete will gain back quicker his loss if he has been previously training.
2. Yes, my son does both. Days he is stiff or sore he takes it easy or skips a day.
1. Like all training there is a loss of benefits over time, depending how long the layoff determines the loss of strength and condition. In general a trained athlete will gain back quicker his loss if he has been previously training.
2. Yes, my son does both. Days he is stiff or sore he takes it easy or skips a day.
thank you for your quick response!
