Best pitching program

It looks like a scam.  

3x is legit and not a scam.  It's actually very good.  Though admittedly the site does have a scammy look.  My son used it and found it helpful with respect to lower half explosive mechanics and strength and conditioning. However, you may also take a look at Baseball thinktank's pitching mastermind system (which is fantastic) and Ron Wolforth's the althletic pitcher program.   Both of those programs do a great job of explaining how to achieve connection and use the entire body to develop velocity.   3x has a lot re strength and conditioning, but I think cressey's s&c stuff is stronger.

Most of the best programs my son attended were discovered by word of mouth. Research and ask around, you'll get plenty of recommendations and will have to research for yourself.  Each program doesn't fit every kid so you may have to try some before you find the right fit.  Good luck!

Long toss.  It's free.  

3x is decent.. as stated before, mainly a large focus on Olympic style lifts...not sure I am a big fan of those, since unless done under supervision of someone who understands the correct form in those style lifts, you are at risk of injury....they propose throwing some serious weights around....better know what you are doing.

 

Wolforth (big Tom House guy) stuff is generally good, as is  - Driveline Baseball (Kyle Boddy)...his program is very well thought out, with a lot of research.  Dick Mills (Pitching.com) has some good points...the big thing consider, is that likely all are pretty much on board with most "constants", but each are unique in their own way,....you wonder if each has to disagree somewhat, otherwise why would someone buy their "stuff" if they all agreed with each other.

 

Although I have not been overly impressed with the local pitching instructions given at local baseball academies, I am sure there could be exceptions to the rule.  Utilizing high speed video, so that you can analyze frame by frame in my opinion is critical.  The pitching delivery is too fast, many ex-MLBer just sit on a bucket and just toss balls to the pitcher, as he throws into a screen...in those cases, the instructor normally is trying to fix the "finish", where in most cases the problem started somewhere at or right after hand break...you can't normally see that without using video.

 

I have worked with each of the above referenced, if you want to PM, feel free to,

Easy: Wolforth nothing else is even close

 

I have been reading about Cressay's stuff on Tim Collins here lately!  Some other people on this site have also recommended him to me! 

Lol I already long toss!  I just was looking for a program I could follow day by day, to maybe give me an advantage! 

I really like how 3x top velocity has separate segments for in-season, pre-season, and off-season.  Plus all the video analysis, and stuff he has offered as bonuses.  If I got Wolforth's program for Christmas, would I have to wait all the way until after the season to begin the 14 week program?  Don't have that much time before the season. 

The video looks like you need a lot of equipment for the program?  Is this true?  I already have jaeger bands, and I'm sure I could use the team medicine ball.  Nodoby ever uses it but me anyways. 

I don't think there is any reason you couldn't start wolforth before the season, but the earlier the better. 

Take a look at baseball thinktank's (lantz wheeler) stuff though too.   It was recently released and is outstanding.  Both wolforth and lantz wheeler's programs are based on 'connection' (and Paul Nyman's models re that), and how to use your entire body.  We've done both Wolforth's and Lantz's programs (and been to Wolforth's ranch).   Lantz's stuff is a good bit more detailed than Wolforth's program IMO re drills and technique for efficient high velocity mechanics, though Wolforth has more about conditioning and focuses on intentional pronation more than Lantz's program).   Cressey's conditioning material is the best to me...

Re local instructors, we live in a great baseball area and it is very very hard to find a pitching instructor who really understands mechanics (most still teach balance position stuff and other things that they were taught---and most think 'you can't teach velocity'---rather than the latest best practices).

For the Wolforth program you pay $250 but don't get any of the equipment needed? 

What do you recommend buying of Eric Cressay's strength program? 

Re Cressey, we have this (you also get access to the video library which shows how to do all exercises in detail):

http://www.highperformancehandbook.com/

 

 

The 3x program is certainly not a scam, and I can personally vouch for the results. You will not find another program out there that is more complete and layed out in a format that is as easy to follow. Olympic Lifting is heavily promoted, and form is always stressed. With unlimited access to the creator Brent Pourciau and his instructors you can submit an unlimited number of video's to insure you are using correct form. If you look at the research it clearly shows Olympic lifting to have less injuries even at the highest levels than baseball. I encourage anyone to go to topvelocity.net and take advantage of the endless amounts of articles that are all supported by scientific research. Also if you have any questions regarding the program you can go to the topvelocity.net/forum and ask a question.

The topvelocity program is set up in a cyclical periodized manner. Meaning it takes you through cycles that are set up in varying percentages to maximize gains. It also has a set of drills that help pitchers learn how to convert there power to on the mound velocity unlike some other programs that rely on using crow hops and running throws to stake their velocity claims. Every single drill and lift is demonstrated through a digital video format and if you attend a camp you can go back and be a part of the 3x velocity training groups that train all summer and winter break long. This group atmosphere pushes guys to make gains and allows you to be evaluated each and every day. Although I must warn you this program is very demanding and is meant for those who are determined to become high velocity pitchers. It sometimes pushes you to exhaustion and really will test your will. But those who are dedicated will be successful. 

Tuff Cuff any good?  It's a whole lot cheaper. 

Right now I don't think I can aford Ron Wolforth's program, plus all the equipment that doesn't come with it.  Tuff Cuff seems to look legit and it's only $70.  Anyone have experience with this program? 

I hear good things about Tuff Cuff and Steven Ellis definitely knows his stuff (he runs letstalkpitching and is one of the good guys), but I have no direct experience with it.  I doubt you'd be regretting buying it.

 

This is $97 (so it's not much more):

http://pitchingmechanicsmastermindsystem.com/

Bought TuffCuff several years ago.  It is a complete guide to pitching strength and conditioning.  At the time, it was pdf format - almost 200 pages.  I'm not sure to what extent they have moved forward with technology. 

 

The program is very thorough, including exercises for warm-up, cardio, agility, balance, rotator cuff, scap stabilization, core stabilization, total body strength, plyo, cool down, hydration, nutrition and massage.  It includes training charts, workout calendars and strength logs.  The various workout schedules are broken out seasonally geared around off-season and in-season.  It provides exercise options with minimal and basic equipment needed (not provided).

 

 I thought it was very good - traditionally well-accepted exercise moves that are specific.  If there was a down side it would be this...  I work with HS kids at the V level.  I get them after school every day.  Generally, the last thing they wanted to see was a 200 page book with more homework   It is not a short, sweet, simple program.  It is very detailed and if followed properly, calls for a lot of monitoring/logging.  Recommended if you are serious, willing and able to commit.

 

Thanks for this.  I looked at it a little, but I'll look a little more tonight when I have some free time.  It looks legit, some of the testimonials (Butch Thompson/Southern Miss Pitching coach) are legit.  Though honestly, it is so much info. on the site I kind of got lost.  I have it narrowed down to Tuff Cuff and the Pitching Mastermind System.  3x top velocity/Wolforth's program is just to expensive for my budget right now.  Well Wolforth's is okay, I just don't have all the equipment required, so buying the equipment for it would start to get expensive also. 

Thanks, I wasn't worried about the commitment or extra "homework".  I would stay at the Baseball Field House all day if I could find something to do.  A program like this will keep me from getting "antsy" like I often do from just not working.  All I needed to know was if the program was legit, which you said it was, and with your reputation on this site, I'll take you're word right for it.  Now I just gotta decide whether I'm gonna go with Tuff Cuff or Pitching Mastermind System. 

Bum Jr. did it by training with a former AA pitcher and D1 coach and by long-tossing and doing band work and plyometrics.  Pitching should be simple and easy not scientific and complicated.  I'm not against these programs to the extent it's not paralysis by analysis.

I'm also long tossing and doing band work.  Just looking for a program to track my day by day performance.  Question, how much band work did Bum Jr.  do a day? 

I did tuffcuff and it is more of a rehab body weight type of program. You need to do some research on long tossing there are studies that show it to put more stress on the arm. Also it reduces forward trunk till something that is crucial to a high velocity pitcher.

http://www.topvelocity.net/top...e-pitching-velocity/

 

Science supports what you are doing without it you are taking a shot in the dark something will work.If you believe pitching should be simple and easy everyone should throw 90+

 

Becoming a high velocity pitcher takes true dedication I train 4-6 hours a day. If you believe you can train a simple hour a day you are fooling yourself. Do not let conventional wisdom corrupt your brain. Pitchers need to be dynamic powerful athletes.

 

Also I would like to state Brent and myself coach the 3x camps and we are both USA weightlifting certified and that allows us to coach you through proper form in the Olympic lifts.You can also send us video's of your form so we can evaluate you and make sure you are doing them properly. Another thing people should know is there are far more injuries in baseball than Olympic lifting.

 

http://www.topvelocity.net/bas...han-olympic-lifting/

3-4x a week is good.  Don't listen to the "long toss does harm" crowd because they are wrong.  Bum, Jr. has been long-tossing regularly, year-round, 5-6x week since age 11 and has never had an arm issue.  He now pitches professionally.  I

I didn't mean pitching is "easy".  I meant the arm action and mechanics should be easy, without effort, and if taught correctly it is not rocket science.  It's all a matter of clean, repeatable mechanics and development of the core and pitch selection as well as mastery of the release point and a solid breaking pitch.

 

Agree with cabbagedad, if the "manual" is over 100 pages long that is way too much information.  A one-on-one great pitching coach can make adjustments immediately.  When you're on the mound, the last thing you want to do is think about your mechanics.  Proper mechanics are gained through years of repetition and adjustments and cannot be found in any book.

 

Bum long toss can have benefits but just because your son didn't get hurt doesn't mean someone else won't. The emg study showed it put more stress on the arm you can't argue that. 

I long tossed for years never hurt my arm thankfully, but it never got me above 90. Just curious how tall is your son?

5'9" and recently topped 93 MPH.  Cruises 89-91.  Gained 9 MPH in one year between his sophomore year in h.s. and his junior season.  He has been drafted twice, was Gatorade State player of the year in h.s., first team All-American, and his MLB-parent team okays long-toss.  Throwing to a max distance of 120 feet is SO old school.  MLB teams are changing to the long-toss philosophy.

BTW it's not just the long-toss, which I believes promotes arm health, a consistent arm slot and most of all arm speed, but he has impeccable mechanics.  He has had the benefit of being coached by some of the best of the business.  His pitching coach in college was Oregon State University former (champion) pitching coach.  His pitching coach in h.s. was a D1 pitching coach and a former AA player.  As for the pros, the pitching minds he has had the benefit of working with have been simply amazing, former MLB guys.  What I'm saying is it takes years of subtle tweaks and one-on-one coaching.  No "system" can teach that.

MLB teams are changing there philosophy on a lot of things the orioles just recently built a whole facility dedicated to thier new Olympic lifting formatted strength and conditioning program. I will agree with you it takes subtle tweaks I believe through mostly video analysis because this being the fastest move in sports it is impossible to see everything with the naked eye. Do you disagree with the fact that long toss adds more stress to the arm? Also a system can work if done correctly we have had multiple pitchers go from from low to mid 80's to topping out at 93, 94 and 95. But most of these guys not only bought our program but have come to our facility and trained that is the best option. Do you have footage of your son pitching I would love to see it. I love to study mechanics. We are far from old school, weight lifting for pitchers is not something conventional wisdom supports. But a new day is coming. Pitchers are dynamic explosive athletes I can bet your son is very dynamic and explosive throwing 90+ with a 5'9 frame. 

CoachKevin, if you Google my son you'll see a lot including video.  PM and I'll share. 

 

Bum, Jr. did weight lifting as well.  He can also squat 400+ lbs.  The plyometric training and, yes, video analysis fine-tunes the most important part of explosive pitching:  the kinetic chain. 

 

Yes, I do disagree that long-toss adds stress to the arm.  All I know is he has done it for years --max distance nearly pole to pole-- and a lot of his pitcher friends in h.s. and college who did not suffered injury.  Is there a correlation?  You be the judge.  I just know what has worked for Bum, Jr.  One of his friends on his summer collegiate team in Madison, Wisconsin also did long-toss with him.  The only two on the team that followed the Jaeger method.  That player now throws 100 (he's 5'10") and will be MLB soon.  Name is J.R. Graham.

I've decided I'm going to go with Tuff Cuff, and then gonna buy Nolan Ryan's Pitching Bible as well.  I just don't have the money for 3x velocity program or the Wolforth program.  Also if I have the money I will most likely buy some of the Tom House books I saw on Ebay.  Thanks everyone for the help and recommendations!  I was able to find several great pitching instructors out there, that I now read daily (Cressay/Mills/Ellis/Reddick). 

Young_Baller good luck to you. You should really check out topvelocity.net and at least take advantage of the 100's of free articles. Also check out the topvelocity forum. Cressey is not a pitching instructor he is pure strength coach. Where is his background in pitching?

Sorry that's what I meant.  Someone just recommended him to me for strength/conditioning purposes and I also read his article's now.  I just accidentally grouped him in there with the rest of those people.  I do read Brent Pourciau's articles, I just forgot to mention him! 

Ok good luck man I hope you have a very successful pitching career. If you ever need anything or have questions regarding pitching feel free to contact me kevin@topvelocity.net

+1

The fact that long toss is free probably has nothing to do with your opinion?  

 

I don't have the money for private instructors or fancy programs for my son.  I read books like Nolan Ryans Pitching Bible, watch youtube video analysis of top MLB pitchers, and believe in long toss.  

 

The only problem right now is the football team my son is on is one game away from going to state.  Baseball is still on the back burner.  

There are several flaws with this study.  These have been debated ad nauseum on other websites, including ASMI, and possibly this one as well.  In my opinion, some of the anti-long toss people are over-reading and/or exaggerating the implications of the study, assuming there really are any.  But, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.  Does throwing the ball farther put more stress on the arm?  OF COURSE IT DOES, BECAUSE THROWING HARDER PUTS MORE STRESS ON THE ARM.  If you're going to build velocity, you must put more stress on your arm.

 

I have not purchased Porcieau's Top Velocity program, but I have studied his site at length.  I highly recommend the message board.   He makes a lot of sense. I have no doubt that his program will help a lot of kids.   And he is probably the best guy out there when it comes to posting all sorts of helpful information, for free.  

 

The thing that bothers me about many of the internet guys is their level of "certainty" that their program is the best/only way to go.  There is a lot of good information out their, but there is still a lot that we do not now.  My advice, for whatever that may be worth, is to take in as much of it as you can, decide for yourself what makes sense to you, and what works for you, and keep battling.  And always keep an open mind.  

 

  

Stress on the arm went up and velocity went down. 

 

Also I do not support long toss as a system on it's own to increase velocity because I long tossed like crazy and only threw high 80's on a good day. Also it causes early external rotation which is not necessary to throw FARTHER or HARDER and can lead to injury, but arm injuries are somewhat unpredictable and can be caused by a ton of factors. 

Tuff Cuff came in today!  Man you weren't kidding when you said it's a lot of monitoring/logging!  I like things like this however!  It will keep me on track of my progress and this is what I wanted!  My friend I'm doing it with is in Indiana for Christmas, and we are going to start as soon as he gets back right after Christmas Break. 

Tuff Cufff is a spiral bound book thrown together with what is probably a bunch of good information but trying to figure out any logical order or sequence to it is more difficult that translating Egyptian hieroglyphics.  If you research a little further, you'll discover that a majority of the Superior or 5 Star reviews/promotions for Tuff Cuff are from "affiliates" that are licensed to sell the product for a commission. I think there's good content in there but I just hope you have more success uncovering a program from a bunch of Xerox'd papers thrown randomly together than we did. 

You're experience with the program wasn't good then?  Did you not see any results?