Coach May, I wholeheartedly agree with your way of handling such disappointing news for a young man. Your way offers encouragement in a moment that seems like there is no reason to be encoraged.
On the other hand, it is my feeling that some coaches post lists so that the cut players do not try out the following year because they do not want that same feeling ever again. This way it easier on the coach as he does not have to deal with as many the following year.
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So let me get this straight its. If you get cut, then you face incarceration...right?
If that is indeed true, then I would advise those who are cut to...
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So let me get this straight its. If you get cut, then you face incarceration...right?
If that is indeed true, then I would advise those who are cut to...
- "run like a wild dog!"
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quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:
The best way to do it - IMO.
For those who didnt make the team - Arrest them and incarcerate them - minimum prison terms of 2 years - no parole.
I don't know man... Incarcerate them? That sounds pretty painful, and then ya wanna throw'em in jail? What the ****! As far as the parole, ya gotta feed'em somethin...
quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:
For those who didnt make the team - Arrest them and incarcerate them - minimum prison terms of 2 years - no parole.
I guess that would bring the ball-n-chain back into play
Coach May that was an outstanding post you had earlier and says everything that I feel about why I meet with kids when I cut them.
I have never been cut from any team I ever tried out for. I played college baseball and while it was at the NAIA level it was still tough competition. This was truly my first taste of "I might not make the team" and I was terrified as an 18 year old "man". I ended up making the team but I honestly don't know what it's like to have that fear or disappointment from not making a team. I'm not sure if I can relate to a kid in that regard.
But I do know I have kids who come into my classroom each year who love baseball but do not have one iota bit of talent for the game. I get to know these kids as people and what they like, what they are strong in academically and other talents they have outside of baseball. There is a personal connection with these kids and I have to look at them everyday. I'm not their friend but I am the person they look up to, look to for guidance and sometimes how to be a man. Some people on here have suggested talking to these kids is coddling them but after really thinking about it that is so far from the truth. In fact it's showing them how to be a man. To look someone in the eye, face to face and give them bad news in a way that is compassionate and shows character. How can that not be an example of being a man? How is that coddling a kid to tell them the truth about where they stand athletically and to challenge them to improve enough to make the team next year?
Getting back to that kid in my classroom who loves baseball but doesn't have any talent for it - let's say I recognize early on that they don't have the talent for it do I just try and talk them out of trying out because I know they won't make it? Or do I let that kid try out and teach them that even if you don't reach your goal you are still better off going for your dream and knowing for certain where he stands? You want to talk about coddling if I talk that kid out of trying out to save his feelings then that is coddling but to encourage that kid to shoot for his dream and give it a try is far from coddling and why wouldn't I want to look that kid in the eye and say "I'm sorry but I'm proud of you for trying. You had more guts to get out there and give baseball a shot than others in this school who are afraid of failure so they don't try. Keep this attitude and you will find success one day."
Look a kid in the eye and help them learn what it means to be a man.
I have never been cut from any team I ever tried out for. I played college baseball and while it was at the NAIA level it was still tough competition. This was truly my first taste of "I might not make the team" and I was terrified as an 18 year old "man". I ended up making the team but I honestly don't know what it's like to have that fear or disappointment from not making a team. I'm not sure if I can relate to a kid in that regard.
But I do know I have kids who come into my classroom each year who love baseball but do not have one iota bit of talent for the game. I get to know these kids as people and what they like, what they are strong in academically and other talents they have outside of baseball. There is a personal connection with these kids and I have to look at them everyday. I'm not their friend but I am the person they look up to, look to for guidance and sometimes how to be a man. Some people on here have suggested talking to these kids is coddling them but after really thinking about it that is so far from the truth. In fact it's showing them how to be a man. To look someone in the eye, face to face and give them bad news in a way that is compassionate and shows character. How can that not be an example of being a man? How is that coddling a kid to tell them the truth about where they stand athletically and to challenge them to improve enough to make the team next year?
Getting back to that kid in my classroom who loves baseball but doesn't have any talent for it - let's say I recognize early on that they don't have the talent for it do I just try and talk them out of trying out because I know they won't make it? Or do I let that kid try out and teach them that even if you don't reach your goal you are still better off going for your dream and knowing for certain where he stands? You want to talk about coddling if I talk that kid out of trying out to save his feelings then that is coddling but to encourage that kid to shoot for his dream and give it a try is far from coddling and why wouldn't I want to look that kid in the eye and say "I'm sorry but I'm proud of you for trying. You had more guts to get out there and give baseball a shot than others in this school who are afraid of failure so they don't try. Keep this attitude and you will find success one day."
Look a kid in the eye and help them learn what it means to be a man.
The coach told me:
"you're really fast, why don't you try out for track".
I was fast and took his advice and went on to set some school records in the 110m high hurdles and the 300m low hurdles (they have long since been bested).
Coed sports are fun but I've always missed baseball, now I get to enjoy watching my son playing the game I love.
Short and to the point and maybe directing a kid towards a path that is a better fit.
"you're really fast, why don't you try out for track".
I was fast and took his advice and went on to set some school records in the 110m high hurdles and the 300m low hurdles (they have long since been bested).
Coed sports are fun but I've always missed baseball, now I get to enjoy watching my son playing the game I love.
Short and to the point and maybe directing a kid towards a path that is a better fit.
All good posts. Coach May, I think I have agreed with you on about 99% of what you say. In fact, I don't really DISAGREE with you on this one, I just do it differently. I don't think there is really a problem with my way or your way.
First, let me say that I was cut as a Freshman at the high school where I now coach (30 years later). I was also cut my Freshman year at college. Both times, it was done by a posted list. I can remember the disappointment both times, but I also came out the next year and made it for 3 years in a row. I don't know that I ever thought twice about the way it was done; I just dealt with it.
I've tried it several different ways as a head coach for 15 years. Tried the envelope thing, but then I spent 20 minutes picking up all the crumbled up envelopes that were thrown on the ground outside the schools back door! Also tried the individual talk with each and every player but just felt that it still caused problems with the players being embarrased; you either have kids coming to school in the evening only to find out they didn't make it, or it happened after school and they still had to walk out of the coaches office and let people know the result.
I don't coddle the kids, but I try to understand that some kids will be really upset. Seems like no matter how early I would get there to post the list, one or two kids were always there to see it right away, and invariably they were always kids who were getting cut and were visibly upset.
So now what I do is to post the "list" on our team website in the evening. That way the kids can go online and see the list in the privacy/comfort of their own home with their mom and dad around, and none of their peers. This probably makes it a little easier to steele themselves when they go to school the next day and get questioned.
All the players are told that if they want to talk to me so we can discuss why they were cut, we can speak on the phone or in person at their convenience.
The fact is, many of the kids who get cut don't want to talk to me about it; they are either too angry or they really didn't care that much. So I don't force them to talk to me, but I give them the opportunity if they want.
Just my two cents worth.....
First, let me say that I was cut as a Freshman at the high school where I now coach (30 years later). I was also cut my Freshman year at college. Both times, it was done by a posted list. I can remember the disappointment both times, but I also came out the next year and made it for 3 years in a row. I don't know that I ever thought twice about the way it was done; I just dealt with it.
I've tried it several different ways as a head coach for 15 years. Tried the envelope thing, but then I spent 20 minutes picking up all the crumbled up envelopes that were thrown on the ground outside the schools back door! Also tried the individual talk with each and every player but just felt that it still caused problems with the players being embarrased; you either have kids coming to school in the evening only to find out they didn't make it, or it happened after school and they still had to walk out of the coaches office and let people know the result.
I don't coddle the kids, but I try to understand that some kids will be really upset. Seems like no matter how early I would get there to post the list, one or two kids were always there to see it right away, and invariably they were always kids who were getting cut and were visibly upset.
So now what I do is to post the "list" on our team website in the evening. That way the kids can go online and see the list in the privacy/comfort of their own home with their mom and dad around, and none of their peers. This probably makes it a little easier to steele themselves when they go to school the next day and get questioned.
All the players are told that if they want to talk to me so we can discuss why they were cut, we can speak on the phone or in person at their convenience.
The fact is, many of the kids who get cut don't want to talk to me about it; they are either too angry or they really didn't care that much. So I don't force them to talk to me, but I give them the opportunity if they want.
Just my two cents worth.....
One of my DDs went to see if she made the cheerleading squad in the 9th grade. Most girls had been cheering since they were 6 or 7 yo.
The coach posted the list at 8 pm at the school entrance.
As we walked up, a granddad was carrying his granddaughter in his arms as she was balling and screaming. She didn't make it and had no forewarning.
I will never forget that moment. I will never post a public list.
The coach posted the list at 8 pm at the school entrance.
As we walked up, a granddad was carrying his granddaughter in his arms as she was balling and screaming. She didn't make it and had no forewarning.
I will never forget that moment. I will never post a public list.
When my son played HS ball, the coach handed out sealed envelopes with a short one sentence letter whether they made it or got cut. Seems simple and right to the point. I suppose if the player wanted to know why he got cut, he could go ask the head coach.
The letter is fine because that's how they're gonna find out if they got into or got rejected to a college they wanted to get into or some other thing they want to get into in their adult lives.
Putting up a list that who made it is the lazy man's way. At least with a sealed letter, the coach had to address each player who tried out.
The letter is fine because that's how they're gonna find out if they got into or got rejected to a college they wanted to get into or some other thing they want to get into in their adult lives.
Putting up a list that who made it is the lazy man's way. At least with a sealed letter, the coach had to address each player who tried out.
The bottom line is that there is no good way to get cut. No matter what, you are still cut, you are still not on the team and you still do not get to play. And every one knows. The best thing, I think, is to advise the kids at the beginning of tryout of the best way to react to getting cut:
Hold your head up high and take pride in taking the risk of trying out for the team in the first place. It says a lot for a kid who will put it on the line like that, especially when there is such a chance for public failure.
Hold your head up high and take pride in taking the risk of trying out for the team in the first place. It says a lot for a kid who will put it on the line like that, especially when there is such a chance for public failure.
In reference to parents, I feel that the head coach at least make himself be available to discuss a cut player's status to a parent, out of courtesy. And the reason that I say that is HS baseball nowadays is a year-long evolution, I don't need to tell most of you guys that. The 2010 spring season started in the summer of 2009 with summer leagues, followed by fall ball, followed by the off-season voluntary (aka mandatory) workouts. It's only after all that the spring tryouts are held. That's a lot of time and money that the parents invest to get their son/daughter to these events. I just feel that after all that effort, a few minute conversation with the parent (if they request it) advising what the player needs to work on is fair.
quote:n reference to parents, I feel that the head coach at least make himself be available to discuss a cut player's status to a parent, out of courtesy.
My question was for High School cuts - I should have made that clear.
This may come off harsh so I apologize - Maybe I should NOT have said it seems like the kids need to be coddled - maybe it's the parents that need to be coddled - according to this post.
I do not think a coach owes an explanation to the parent. Sorry. You are going down a slippery slope. Does the coach need to justify the line-up to the parents? NO.
You are spending the time and money on your kid because they have the desire to play. To think that a coach owes you anything is misconception.
And to go back to Coach May's post - I think if you were cutting the kids it would be done in decent manor. My son years ago got cut by the one-on-one method - he found it embarrassing - the Coach gave him no constructive feedback just said there wasn't enough room on the team. So a list would have served the same purpose without the awkward chat. Just depends on the messenger.
I agree in that they don't "owe" the parent, I simply stated out of courtesy.
Taking a couple of minutes advising that the player needs to work on their hitting or arm strength, for example, and again, if the parent requests it, should not be considered out of line, in my view...
But I understand there are those that disagree, that's fine as well....
Taking a couple of minutes advising that the player needs to work on their hitting or arm strength, for example, and again, if the parent requests it, should not be considered out of line, in my view...
But I understand there are those that disagree, that's fine as well....
Everyone's opinions will differ..but I think a lot of it has to with the AMOUNT of kids trying out and the DEPTH of the talent.
I helped with a HS tryout more than a few years ago. The Head Coach was a friend.
They had over 70 kids come out.
I walked among the kids while they were just warming up throwing and catching.
I eliminated almost 30 kids from just watching them...sounds harsh...but as a HS coach you don't have time to teach a kid how to properly throw and catch a baseball. It's a bit late for that.
We had every kid run the bases on a stop watch:
home to 1st
home to 2nd
Home to home
Then we took the slowest kids and hit them first in BP. If the slowest kids couldn't hit the **** out of the ball, they were cut.
But honestly..it's just like All Star Selections.
Normally, all but the last 3-6 players are pretty much cut and dried...the last few, you pick them based on what your team needs (speed, power, pitching, catching etc).
As for how to notify them...
List was what they used when I tried out. I wasn't emotionally scarred for life...
I helped with a HS tryout more than a few years ago. The Head Coach was a friend.
They had over 70 kids come out.
I walked among the kids while they were just warming up throwing and catching.
I eliminated almost 30 kids from just watching them...sounds harsh...but as a HS coach you don't have time to teach a kid how to properly throw and catch a baseball. It's a bit late for that.
We had every kid run the bases on a stop watch:
home to 1st
home to 2nd
Home to home
Then we took the slowest kids and hit them first in BP. If the slowest kids couldn't hit the **** out of the ball, they were cut.
But honestly..it's just like All Star Selections.
Normally, all but the last 3-6 players are pretty much cut and dried...the last few, you pick them based on what your team needs (speed, power, pitching, catching etc).
As for how to notify them...
List was what they used when I tried out. I wasn't emotionally scarred for life...
quote:Originally posted by ctandc:
Everyone's opinions will differ..but I think a lot of it has to with the AMOUNT of kids trying out and the DEPTH of the talent.
I helped with a HS tryout more than a few years ago. The Head Coach was a friend.
They had over 70 kids come out.
I walked among the kids while they were just warming up throwing and catching.
I eliminated almost 30 kids from just watching them...sounds harsh...but as a HS coach you don't have time to teach a kid how to properly throw and catch a baseball. It's a bit late for that.
We had every kid run the bases on a stop watch:
home to 1st
home to 2nd
Home to home
Then we took the slowest kids and hit them first in BP. If the slowest kids couldn't hit the **** out of the ball, they were cut.
But honestly..it's just like All Star Selections.
Normally, all but the last 3-6 players are pretty much cut and dried...the last few, you pick them based on what your team needs (speed, power, pitching, catching etc).
As for how to notify them...
List was what they used when I tried out. I wasn't emotionally scarred for life...
What if your slow kid who couldn't hit was a pitcher? Sounds like you are skipping a step in the process.
When the boy applies for his first job and gets turned down--does the hirer call his parents and explain ??? C'mon now --the kids have to grow up sometime
When the youth gets turned down by a college do they contact the parents and explain--I think not-- It has nothing to do with courtesy--in fact some companies don't even tell you that you did not get the job--they just do not contact you
Such is life !!!!
When the youth gets turned down by a college do they contact the parents and explain--I think not-- It has nothing to do with courtesy--in fact some companies don't even tell you that you did not get the job--they just do not contact you
Such is life !!!!
We have an all new coaching staff this season and just had a pre-season meeting.
They just did cuts by text message. He told each kid to text back for a meeting if he wanted one. He feels this allows a kid to gather himself and have a productive face to face meeting, or to not have a meeting at all (which probably means the kid either doesn't care, or isn't mature enough to talk to a coach face to face).
The kids love the text messaging.
They just did cuts by text message. He told each kid to text back for a meeting if he wanted one. He feels this allows a kid to gather himself and have a productive face to face meeting, or to not have a meeting at all (which probably means the kid either doesn't care, or isn't mature enough to talk to a coach face to face).
The kids love the text messaging.
Why don't we divide the players into 4 groups and put them into 4 different classrooms. Then the coaches could tell them room by room whether or not they made it.
Oops, sorry, that was for the "Idol" thread!
More seriously, though, I think we have reached a point where it is just so easy to collect e-mail addresses that I don't understand why you can't send out the roster in a group e-mail first. That way a kid doesn't have to have his disappointment on public display.
At some point the roster is going to be public knowledge, so I don't see any problem with posting it, whether on paper or on a team web site. The real issue is with having the kids find out for the first time when the list goes up. While I do agree with TR that we coddle kids too much these days, I don't see any problem with using the modern conveniences to avoid what is now a totally unnecessary instance of public humiliation.
The definition of a gentleman, it has been said, is that he never gives offense unintentionally. Meaning, he makes himself aware of how what he does impacts others and he strives to avoid being insensitive, even though he may well recognize that on occasion some confrontation may well prove unavoidable or even necessary.
Coaches are always asking their players to behave like gentlemen. I don't see why they cannot follow that advice themselves, to set the right example.
Oops, sorry, that was for the "Idol" thread!
More seriously, though, I think we have reached a point where it is just so easy to collect e-mail addresses that I don't understand why you can't send out the roster in a group e-mail first. That way a kid doesn't have to have his disappointment on public display.
At some point the roster is going to be public knowledge, so I don't see any problem with posting it, whether on paper or on a team web site. The real issue is with having the kids find out for the first time when the list goes up. While I do agree with TR that we coddle kids too much these days, I don't see any problem with using the modern conveniences to avoid what is now a totally unnecessary instance of public humiliation.
The definition of a gentleman, it has been said, is that he never gives offense unintentionally. Meaning, he makes himself aware of how what he does impacts others and he strives to avoid being insensitive, even though he may well recognize that on occasion some confrontation may well prove unavoidable or even necessary.
Coaches are always asking their players to behave like gentlemen. I don't see why they cannot follow that advice themselves, to set the right example.
What an ineresting thread this has turned out to be - some very outstanding posts!
Coach May - I loved your post!
TCB1 - I loved your post as well!
Reading this stuff, it seems apparent to me that there is no perfect way!! It seems to me that if you want to be a Coach, you are going to have to man up and accept hard feeling no matter what your technique for announcing the bad news.
Coach May - I loved your post!
TCB1 - I loved your post as well!
Reading this stuff, it seems apparent to me that there is no perfect way!! It seems to me that if you want to be a Coach, you are going to have to man up and accept hard feeling no matter what your technique for announcing the bad news.
quote:When the boy applies for his first job and gets turned down--does the hirer call his parents and explain ??? C'mon now --the kids have to grow up sometime
When the youth gets turned down by a college do they contact the parents and explain--I think not-- It has nothing to do with courtesy--in fact some companies don't even tell you that you did not get the job--they just do not contact you
Such is life !!!!
TRhit
Due respect, totally different situations. It shouldn't be a problem with providing constructive feedback for a minute or two.
Shouldn't a goal for the program overall be to assist players in their improvement for future teams ?
A coach does not owe any explanation to a parent as to why a son was cut.
That said, if a parent really wants to know and discuss the situation, I see no harm in scheduling an appointment with coach and having a discussion.
Most kids who get cut or do not make a team can critique their own performance fairly adequately.
Did you hit the ball well, or did you hit a bunch of weak grounders?
Do you have a strong arm? Can you field, beyond the routine? Can you run?
The key to playing baseball (if you are not a pitcher) is hitting. Hitting, Hitting, and more hitting! If you can hit you will play.
That said, if a parent really wants to know and discuss the situation, I see no harm in scheduling an appointment with coach and having a discussion.
Most kids who get cut or do not make a team can critique their own performance fairly adequately.
Did you hit the ball well, or did you hit a bunch of weak grounders?
Do you have a strong arm? Can you field, beyond the routine? Can you run?
The key to playing baseball (if you are not a pitcher) is hitting. Hitting, Hitting, and more hitting! If you can hit you will play.
[/QUOTE]
Shouldn't a goal for the program overall be to assist players in their improvement for future teams ?[/QUOTE]
Partly, but the goal of a HS coach is to win games. Talking with the parent, although nice is not productive to the program. In fact, I think it could be counterproductive. A Coach who needs to account for his reasoning to a parent opens himself up to questioning on all decisions. The only one he may choose to give an explanation to is the player cut.
Shouldn't a goal for the program overall be to assist players in their improvement for future teams ?[/QUOTE]
Partly, but the goal of a HS coach is to win games. Talking with the parent, although nice is not productive to the program. In fact, I think it could be counterproductive. A Coach who needs to account for his reasoning to a parent opens himself up to questioning on all decisions. The only one he may choose to give an explanation to is the player cut.
If it's counter productive then why are so many on here wishing their son's could play for CM and C2709 ?
You will find that kindness is a big factor in a coach's success. You make the cuts you feel you have to make while showing some compassion. Even corporations have figured this out if they want to attract and keep the best employees.
I also think these coaches have less problems with parents ganging up on them.
You will find that kindness is a big factor in a coach's success. You make the cuts you feel you have to make while showing some compassion. Even corporations have figured this out if they want to attract and keep the best employees.
I also think these coaches have less problems with parents ganging up on them.
I don't think there is a right answer for everybody in this situation. I can't think of a good way to tell a kid he's not good enough for your team. Some kids want to know why some don't.
As a parent I don't think the coach owes me any explanation but to take a minute to tell the kid what he needs to work on I don't think is asking alot. I'm not say search every kid out to tell him what's wrong with him but just take a minute if asked.
I think there are lesson to be learned from baseball besides on the field. I used to coach my son's teams when he was younger (never had to make cuts) but I looked at coaching as a pay it forward type of thing. My best moments in coaching was some kid with no talent making the play or getting his first run. Maybe that kid will never be a baseball player but he could be a doctor, a teacher, or even a coach someday.
As a parent I don't think the coach owes me any explanation but to take a minute to tell the kid what he needs to work on I don't think is asking alot. I'm not say search every kid out to tell him what's wrong with him but just take a minute if asked.
I think there are lesson to be learned from baseball besides on the field. I used to coach my son's teams when he was younger (never had to make cuts) but I looked at coaching as a pay it forward type of thing. My best moments in coaching was some kid with no talent making the play or getting his first run. Maybe that kid will never be a baseball player but he could be a doctor, a teacher, or even a coach someday.
quote:If it's counter productive then why are so many on here wishing their son's could play for CM and C2709 ?
Sorry did not see that Coach May and C2709 were having chats with the parents regarding cuts - Did I miss that?
At our High School, the Coach posts on the website the names that continue tryouts after week one. Then at the conclusion of week two the Team Rosters are set.
That's it. Certainly, a player can query the Coach but few do. This approach may vary in different areas of the Country depending upon how competitive the programs are. Certainly Pro-ball, and now almost all levels of College Baseball, are very business like in their approach to fielding competitive teams. I have seen that methodology "tricle-down" to the winning H.S. programs. The Coach is there to put the best nine on the field that gives him his best chance to win. The players that don't make the team, don't really have to ask why ... in most cases everyone knows. I've seen Seniors not make the Team that played Varsity since their Freshmen years (now those were attitude, discipline problems and the Parents were involved prior to those cuts). Additionally, the ones that won't play much, or at all, know their status/role on the team. The process may sometimes seem cold but it is exactly what they will see from here on out if they continue to play baseball! There are "pay to play" teams and leagues for players that don't make the team.
I'm all for compassion and "feel good" styles but at higher levels, after youth rec-league sports, all parties should know the score and there is no reason to tap-dance around who stays and who plays.
That's it. Certainly, a player can query the Coach but few do. This approach may vary in different areas of the Country depending upon how competitive the programs are. Certainly Pro-ball, and now almost all levels of College Baseball, are very business like in their approach to fielding competitive teams. I have seen that methodology "tricle-down" to the winning H.S. programs. The Coach is there to put the best nine on the field that gives him his best chance to win. The players that don't make the team, don't really have to ask why ... in most cases everyone knows. I've seen Seniors not make the Team that played Varsity since their Freshmen years (now those were attitude, discipline problems and the Parents were involved prior to those cuts). Additionally, the ones that won't play much, or at all, know their status/role on the team. The process may sometimes seem cold but it is exactly what they will see from here on out if they continue to play baseball! There are "pay to play" teams and leagues for players that don't make the team.
I'm all for compassion and "feel good" styles but at higher levels, after youth rec-league sports, all parties should know the score and there is no reason to tap-dance around who stays and who plays.
As I read this thread, my middle school daughter is at softball tryouts. This is the third day of tryouts and each night the list of girls that make the cut are posted on the softball team's website. As soon as it is posted, the girls all text eachother with congratulations or sad faces. Same thing happens at the high school level for the boys baseball team. At the end of tryouts the team roster is listed on the website. The 12 & 13 year old girls seem to be fine with it being done this way, even my daughter's friends that were cut.
I like this method because the list is not posted at the school for the whole student body to be seen on the way to gym class or lunch. Only those that really care will go out to the team's website to see who made the team. It is most often read at home (or on their Itouches) when the players are around their parents or friends so they get the support they need.
That said, I think it only right for a coach to call those that didn't make the team BEFORE posting the list to let them know why and what they need to work on. That way the player has an explanation that they can choose to share (or not) and gives them time to compose themselves before everyone else knows.
I see no reason for the parents to get involved. At this point in their lives, the student needs to learn how to approach a teacher, coach or boss and ask why they didn't make the grade, team or job. It's part of the process of helping them mature into young men and I look at that as just as much a part of the coach's responsibilities as developing skilled baseball players.
I like this method because the list is not posted at the school for the whole student body to be seen on the way to gym class or lunch. Only those that really care will go out to the team's website to see who made the team. It is most often read at home (or on their Itouches) when the players are around their parents or friends so they get the support they need.
That said, I think it only right for a coach to call those that didn't make the team BEFORE posting the list to let them know why and what they need to work on. That way the player has an explanation that they can choose to share (or not) and gives them time to compose themselves before everyone else knows.
I see no reason for the parents to get involved. At this point in their lives, the student needs to learn how to approach a teacher, coach or boss and ask why they didn't make the grade, team or job. It's part of the process of helping them mature into young men and I look at that as just as much a part of the coach's responsibilities as developing skilled baseball players.
I like CM's approach because not only does he know the game backwards and forwards, he shows compassion that makes one a good coach. He reminds me of a former coach son played for, tough as nails, but compassionate for others, especially those that want to move forward and not quite ready. I don't know coach2709 as well, but I like is approach as well.
No doubt most know who will make the cut and who won't, but for many very young players just entering HS, they may need some guidance as to how to improve to make the team someday when they can't understand why they didn't for that moment.
This is not to say the coach has to justify his decisions, but why not speak to those you knew really wanted it but couldn't quite make it before you announce the team?
I don't think that parents need explanations, but I do think that players do.
I have never been in a situation where son was cut from any team, so this may leave my opinion out of the discussion, but I do feel that coaches need to care about ALL players that come to try out, not just he ones who make their team.
I don't know what the correct method would be, but I would let those know who didn't make the team before the roster comes out.
No doubt most know who will make the cut and who won't, but for many very young players just entering HS, they may need some guidance as to how to improve to make the team someday when they can't understand why they didn't for that moment.
This is not to say the coach has to justify his decisions, but why not speak to those you knew really wanted it but couldn't quite make it before you announce the team?
I don't think that parents need explanations, but I do think that players do.
I have never been in a situation where son was cut from any team, so this may leave my opinion out of the discussion, but I do feel that coaches need to care about ALL players that come to try out, not just he ones who make their team.
I don't know what the correct method would be, but I would let those know who didn't make the team before the roster comes out.
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I see no reason for the parents to get involved. At this point in their lives, the student needs to learn how to approach a teacher, coach or boss and ask why they didn't make the grade, team or job. It's part of the process of helping them mature into young men and I look at that as just as much a part of the coach's responsibilities as developing skilled baseball players.
i remember what was done in my youth. it either drives you to get better or drives you out. as i look back i was on the cut list at times, the keep list at times. but i knew where i belonged all the time. i don't have any deep feelings either way.
as you moved up the ladder things got better, uniforms,cleats bats,fields, etc. not so today. today some LL fields are better than some college fields. equipment is better etc.
i still like the old school approach, but really don't think it hurts to be compationate either. i still like the old way of doing things though. what do i know?
as you moved up the ladder things got better, uniforms,cleats bats,fields, etc. not so today. today some LL fields are better than some college fields. equipment is better etc.
i still like the old school approach, but really don't think it hurts to be compationate either. i still like the old way of doing things though. what do i know?
OK, parents aren't allowed to question cuts. How does everyone feel about players on the team speaking their minds to the coach about the cuts that he made?
quote:Originally posted by Vicarious Dad:
OK, parents aren't allowed to question cuts. How does everyone feel about players on the team speaking their minds to the coach about the cuts that he made?
Good one. I have no opinion, other than, I think the players know who is strong on the team and if that player deserves to be there. Whether they should challenge the coach, is more of a question of if they can challenge the Coach. In other words, a Coach they do not respect, some will challenge him. A Coach they hold in high regard, I suspect, the Coach will not hear a peep.
If a player has the guts to speak up about someone that was cut, and does it in a respectul manner, there's no reason the coach can't hear them out and then offer his reasons. He shouldn't feel obligated to share his reasons though.
All kidding aside - and just in my opinion - Coach May approaches it just as I would have expected he would.
An extremely knowledgable baseball Coach.
A motivator.
A teacher.
And a human being.
We are talking about young people here.
They do not need coddling.
What they need is some compassion - some challenge - and most importantly - the truth.
Personally - I think Coach May delivers on all 3 accounts - plus some.
An extremely knowledgable baseball Coach.
A motivator.
A teacher.
And a human being.
We are talking about young people here.
They do not need coddling.
What they need is some compassion - some challenge - and most importantly - the truth.
Personally - I think Coach May delivers on all 3 accounts - plus some.
I think that when a high school kid gets cut, that is the one time a parent should be able to talk to the coach. When they are on the team, the player should be the only one discussing playing time, positions, etc.
I have made it a policy to never talk to the high school coaches about anything with the exception of cordial greetings, of course. However, in our area, there are so many over involved parents. These people are not afraid to bad mouth another player for their kid's benefit. I want to feel comfortable that these individuals had no influence, as much as they try, on the coach's decision.
I have made it a policy to never talk to the high school coaches about anything with the exception of cordial greetings, of course. However, in our area, there are so many over involved parents. These people are not afraid to bad mouth another player for their kid's benefit. I want to feel comfortable that these individuals had no influence, as much as they try, on the coach's decision.
I doubt many coaches would put the word of an over involved parent above what he saw himself at the tryouts.
At the lower levels in high school, at least in our area, you don't have coaches like Coach May. Typically, it is a new teacher about 23 or 24 years old who is very naive to how overbearing some parents can be. Some can stand up to it. Some are easily manipulated. Also, let's face it. The final cuts in any sport are not always that clear cut.
quote:Originally posted by greenmonstah:quote:If it's counter productive then why are so many on here wishing their son's could play for CM and C2709 ?
Sorry did not see that Coach May and C2709 were having chats with the parents regarding cuts - Did I miss that?
Greenmonstah I never said anything about chats with parents but it's a good question to ask. Also, I'm obviously not speaking on Coach May's behalf either - this is totally how I deal with things.
Overall I do not owe a parent anything except to give their kid a fair chance. The parents definition of fair chance isn't the one I go with either - it's mine. I rely on my coaches to give me their opinion on everything and I definately do not want yes men. If one of my coaches thinks I'm doing something stupid then I want him to tell me that behind closed doors. But I have final say on everything - who makes the team, who plays what position, who gets how much playing time etc....
I don't think I need to explain any of these decisions with the parents because I tell the kids why I make the decisions I make to them. That is who I owe explanations to. If the parents are wondering why I made the decision I did they can talk to their kid. I stress these things to the players and parents before the season and pretty much have that reputation of having this outlook so they know it going in.
Now that being said if a parent wants to talk I truly don't have a problem with it. It does tell me that the parent is hurting the development of their child by fighting their fights for them but it lets me know how I can now deal with their kid when it comes to teaching / motivating a player. But they better be ready to hear what I consider to be the truth about their son. I won't sugarcoat it nor will I tell them what they want to hear. If their son is a bum who doesn't hustle and that's why he's not in the lineup that is what they are going to hear.
I would prefer to meet after practice and not games though. After games is just not a good time to talk at all. If we lose / play bad then I'm usually ticked off and not in a good mood. Last thing I want to deal with is a parent who's ticked because Johnny didn't get enough playing time. If we win / play well then I'm happy over our effort and don't want it to come crashing down because of unhappy parents. If you want to talk then come up to me after the next practice because that means we have both probably settled down if there are any emotions involved.
quote:OK, parents aren't allowed to question cuts. How does everyone feel about players on the team speaking their minds to the coach about the cuts that he made?
Vicarious Dad there is a way to handle things like this but overall I'm not keeping a kid just because he's buddies with one of my better players. The best way to handle this is create a system where there are leaders (or captains if you will) who the players can go to with concerns or questions. Hopefully the leaders know me well enough to explain why I decide the way I do based on my consistency for decisions. But in case the leaders can't give them an answer they come to me. If it's important enough we meet as a team and we work things out. Now at anytime a player can meet with me one on one and he can say whatever he wants without fear of any kind of retribution. I've met with some guys one on one that got pretty heated on their part and my part but it was good open and honest communication so we could work it out. I think each time this happened the relationship with that player got stronger.
Basically players will not question any decision made by myself or my coaches. It's disrespectful and leads to dissension on the team. There are Chiefs and there are Indians and each have their own role. That cannot be broken but if a kid asks me a question in front of the team that is respectful and is a learning opportunity for the whole team then I don't have a problem with it. But the kid has to know how to ask the question so it won't be taken in a disrespectful manner.