Beware of Scams

In the Philly news 3 days ago:

 

http://6abc.com/news/youth-bas...-$22000-scam/801636/

 

 

A lot of camps that charge hundreds of $$ for the implied promise of making a player better.  Especially those camps that target youngsters. 
I sent my now 16u son to a dallas cowboy player sponsored football camp when he was 9.  Cost $700 for three days.  Really? 
I saw a punters camp that charged $200 for a half day. 
Thank goodness for YouTube. Lol

What some people perceive to be scams are just legal absurdities. I wouldn't accept anything I couldn't validate first hand. It's very typical for a parent to call a situation a scam when they don't want to appear stupid for spending the money.

 

Yesterday a friend told me he drove by the Atlantic 100 showcase. He told me while the prospect market isn't a scam there are a lot of delusional parents spending money on the delusion their kids are a lot better than they really are. He said people are getting rich on parent's delusions. His son played D1 ball.

 

When my son was fourteen I watched a Villanova showcase. There were four sessions of 36 kids. There were four playears of thirty-six with D1 bat speed. I mentioned it some players. They laughed. The four players were discovered at PG East Cobb and invited to visit. The rest were all delusional locals. 

Definitely need to seperate true scams from overpriced camps/showcases.  As for the overpriced camps/showcases, I think this board has done a wonderful job putting these into perspective.  This includes for those with unlimited resources what benefits might be derived to those looking for exposure on a very tight budget.  The education I have received here on the structuring and wording of invites is invaluable (camp invites have started arriving but no really good cell phone numbers yet). 

 

Have also found helpful the many comments that money should not buy playing time and therefore folks should be very careful if they are shopping around for a team - really don't want to be that last invite that helps round out the budget.  What I have not see during my short time here is the basic "golden rules" on due diligence before handing over anywhere between $1k-$5k whether it be a recurring travel team or some one time grouping to head to baseball mecca (small case).  Then you run across the grey areas like CaCo discussed above where the deal was sort of legit but the details fell through and it appears someone got enriched.  Would love to have seen that team's budget.

Perhaps that should be the first golden rule, don't pay a dime until you see a budget...the lady who told me about this one NEVER got a budget!

Ah, ironic that if delusional parents became educated and self-selected their kids out of post-HS development programs and showcases (etc.), then opporunities for non-delusional kids and parents to develop and showcase would dry up like a pond in California.

I've been around SoCal baseball now for 10 years and never come across a team charging more than $600 for a season of 10+ games. Usually much less. What teams are charging thousands per player? Maybe I just don't run in those circles.

Those are the team fees for the year round teams, September-July.  My son's 12u team played 15 games in the fall from 4 tourneys, 35 games in the Spring from 13 tourneys.  Many of our games were rained out, but let's say overall we paid $2300 per kid to let them play in 50 games.  That fee also covered field rental for practice, team uniforms, balls, coach fees, indoor facility fees....etc.   It's a very typical amount in Georgia.

Um let's see. Preteen travel, preteen camps, hitting and pitching instructions for little ones, new uniforms, 400 dollar bats, 400 dollar gloves. Spending 25,000 for a 5,000 dollar scholorship. Hahhaha To me a better question would be what part of baseball isn't a scam anymore?

$peaking of $cams;  I just received an email for my $on to attend a "well known" organizational event in late this $ummer.  Only $649 and if you want the video only $949. 

No re$triction$ to camp except the $$.  I wonder how many delusional parents will fork over the money?  Hmmmm...but there is a form to get $ponsorships. 

You may think it's not a good value or worth the money, but that doesn't make it a scam. 

Ahhh I don't  believe I can't remember where the quote came from but I at least remember the quote "the greatest con you can ever pull is when the mark thanks you for taking his money and convinces his friends to do the same".

I just wish American Legion would become popular down in the south again. Inexpensive baseball.  

Now I just have to get a shirt to wear that says "A fool and his money are soon parted".  lol

       
       
Oh I soooo do as well. I still think the solution to baseball becoming a country club sport is to find a few high end benefactors and use leigion ball to basically form showcase level leagues. Turn their state, regional, and national tournaments into the top showcase tourneys. I hear a lot of arguments for fixing baseball. I truly believe that could, if done right, be a big step.

Here's the problem.  What you described above is pretty much where travel ball started.  The BEST players played travel.  So when Johnny didn't make a team because he wasn't the best, Daddy assembled Johnny's equally less talented friends Dads and decided they were going to start their own team because their kids were just as good as the others.  Then Billy didn't make Johnny's Dad's team . . . . . . 

 

I doubt the clock will ever get turned back.

I see your point. I don't want it to turn back but maybe progress back if that makes any sense lol. Let Billy and Johnny keep playing travel but the top players make the legion team. I don't think it would work with younger ages. You'd have to play high level 8U travel to make the legion team hahaha. I also don't think it will ever happen but I think it sure would be nice and I think legion could be the tool to do it with.

Here's my story.... I was taking son on a visit to a D1 Mid-Major..... we were walking through the locker room with the coaches and then we walked down a hallway that led to the home dugout... when we opened the door and walked out towards the field , it just so happened that the team was having their "camp"  

 

When the campers and parents saw a 6'5 190 jr.  walk out the dugout with the pitching coach and recruiting coordinator.... the campers and their parents had an ah-ha moment.

 

If you are invited to junior day, an official visit , if they text you , call you, send you hand written letters with numbers then that's good.....

 

If it's the school your son really wants to go to attend.... go to the camp.  Perfect Game is worth it... maybe head first...if you a brain child.... Area Code and East Coast Pro are free, USA is not bad....

 

All the other is Money Maker.... repeat Money Maker..... if jr is good enough they will find him 

 

I ahve seen dads try and 'buy' it... travel teams, lessons.... camps showcases  most of the time they are disappointed.. and for the sake of god stop going to the UA camps

American legion program is fairly controlled outfit isn't it?  Not just anyone can start a team and belong to the organization?  If the best players would be in the American legion then travel ball would be relegated to those that couldn't make the team but want to get in some more baseball. 

Doesn't PG and similar outfits accept anyone that can pay the money?  How is that not a money maker?

It does cost to attend a PG showcase... however.... they are the pro's , their rankings are valid, they can help your player with exposure.... they are very reputable most college recruiters and scouts use PG...... It's worth the money in my opinion.

 

The best thing is to have a eval from a knowledgeable college coach, recruiter, scout that has no skin in the game.

Running a travel team or tournament showcase is a business, and businesses dont want to or have to open their books to you or anyone else.

In business there are good people and bad people.  Do your due diligence, get references, check for complaints. Be cautious of new start up travel teams.

It costs money to run a travel team.  If its too reasonable, you can ask questions. Before an event you are traveling too, check to see if the team is included among others.  If you dont see it, call the tournament directors and ask questions.

And keep in mind coaches get paid nice money from what you are paying.  They dont do this for nothing.  You only need 2 coaches maybe 3.  

Your fee should include practices.  And understand that the coaches will add players if yours havent gotten the job done.  

Hope these suggestions help.

 

Step #1.  Find out if the team/program is registered with the State in which they are doing business.  Whether that's as a true "business" or for those claiming to be 501.3(c) with a charities/trusts division. Not registered as a business means whatever "extra" they take in is going in their pocket. Avoid those that aren't or if they want your player "bad enough" ask them to "pay as you go". Be extra wary of a program that "requires" or provides "extra" training at additional cost. Regardless of their skill, it'll become very obvious "who" is greasing the pocket of the coach...

 

Step #2. Do your homework and do the math. Insurance, facility/field rentals, and umpires are the primary costs for teams that travel mostly locally. Many 'trade' running some sort of clinic for reduced or free field usage. For teams that travel further, it's very easy to find out the "cost" of travel. Funny how we'll do our research to get the best deal when we buy big ticket items in the house (fridge, stove, washer/driver, etc.) or when we take a family vacation, but when it comes to similar cost for our child to have "his chance", some don't think twice about spending $1-3K because they're thinking college is $25-60K/year...

 

Like bacdorslider pointed out - 'if jr is good enough they will find him' and guess what more than likely you won't have to pay!

I really meant this thread to be for actual scams.  For example, coach ran away with the money, or bat company shipped you an inferior bogus product.  We all know that some people will try to buy the baseball dream for their kids, but let's try to focus on actual scams that could be reported to the police.

The only bona fide scam mentioned (besides the one you did secondhand), was the one with a link, story posted a few days ago by one of our websters who got scammed, but it was shut down.

While I understand what you are trying to achieve, I dont get the point of closing some, deleting others while this is ok.  

It still becomes a bitch and moan topic over high priced travel teams, showcases and tournaments, which are not scams or criminal.

In all of the years since son was young, the above is actually the second guy i know who criminally scammed others.

 

there are a lot of delusional parents spending money on the delusion their kids are a lot better than they really are. He said people are getting rich on parent's delusions. 

 

To be honest if it were not for these "delusional" parents profits would be marginal 

I don't understand the constant attacks on baseball programs that are legitimate businesses seeking to earn a profit.  There's nothing wrong with parents spending their money to help their kid get better at what ever they enjoy doing, and there's nothing wrong with coaches making a living from this.  Parents are adults and can opt-out of these activities any time they want.  Sure some of these parents are truly delusional about their kids talent but from my experience most parents know where their kids stand.

You are correct there is nothing wrong with parents spending their money to help their kids get better and nothing wrong with coaches making a profit from this .... if this was what was truly going on....bad sadly this is not the case. 

 

The amount of emails and letters I get daily is staggering.  Let's see how these letters start out... " you have been identified by our scouting director"  "any player wanting to play in college has to attend this showcase"  " don't be left out"  "learn what the pros know"  etc.....

 

Now your not going to tell me that these baseball programs are doing this accidentally are you?  The majority of people DO NOT know where there player falls on the talent scale.... the player might be a D3 player but the parents are lead to believe that junior is major D1.... " these are the school promised to attend"  they don't tell you its a grad assistant.

 

Now some camps will give good info to players , but most do not and are in it for the money and they are deceitful  at best... maybe I should start posting the solicitation I get on the board some folks can decide ..

 

Now if a team sells their camp as an instructional camp geared in teaching and not recruiting then that's different....

 

The M O is selling the dream..... I hear it over and over again... "my son got a letter from Standford" ha!

 

 

 

 

Payday loan lenders are legitimate businesses.  Doesn't make it right. 

People that are unhappy leave, nobody is holding them there. My sons u16 team has had about 50% turnover total over the last 2 years, it is almost entirely the bottom of the roster. The truth is they took a shot realized they weren't on the level the team was playing and moved on. IMO that is not a scam just life. 

My daughter (non-athlete) just graduated high school.  All year long she got at least 5 letters or post cards a day from colleges all over the country, including every Ivy, saying how great a fit they think she is for their school and how much they'd like to see her there.  Did she brag "Harvard wants me!"?  Of course not, every kid gets these letters and everyone knows they do not mean anything.  Is this different than you just described?  I can go on about what a victim I am of this nonsense or I can see it for what it is - marketing.

 

it is almost entirely the bottom of the roster.

 

Well they paid the same money as the top of the roster.

 

I had nothing to do with a team but I listened as a parent who paid x amount for his kid to be on the team who traveled a couple hundred miles to a tournament paid motel fees etc etc to watch his son get 1 at bat in 4 games. Yea that bottom of the roster whining. 11 year olds!!!!  

 

 

 

 

From my experience, the best players eventually dont pay to play in a lot of cases, they get invited to play for free...interestingly enough, a lot of those same kids wouldnt be able to afford to pay thousands or even hundreds if asked.  Many of these guys have gifts that cannot be purchased...plain and simple...natural talents and attribites.

This is interesting to me because I've always felt that paying our way is just the right thing to do. JP could play for free, and like many of the posters' sons here I'm sure, gets invited to teams with that offer sometimes. But because there's no such thing as a free lunch, we know that if WE don't pay for JP, SOMEONE will. And since we can afford it, we do. 

 

I know a few parents of good players -- who have money -- but don't pay. That's always bothered me. Players who NEED help? Absolutely. 

jp24 not sure what you mean.... if you attend a showcase that has a fee  then I feel you should pay what they are asking  .... What I am referring to are the showcases that do not charge a fee.... Area Code for one..... you are invited by scout and there's no fee....

 

MOST of the time if you are paying then it's not worth your time... exception is PG, Headfirst and a couple others......

 

My issue is the college programs that run camps and sell the camp as a recruiting tool to parents when we all know there is a slim to none chance that this is the way they will recruit.  It's misleading.....

 

I got one today from PBR baseball for 2018 ..... it stated that this was an invite only showcase.... for something like 195.00   ... I'll pass.

I misunderstood BDS. Thought you meant if a kid's good, he can play for many teams without paying.

 

Definitely agree with all you say -- and here's my 2 cents on college showcases:

 

IF you go, make sure the RC or HC knows you're coming ... because someone whose opinion matters talked about you to them (like a well-respected travel coach).

 

Going in cold, so to speak, isn't ideal. REFERENCES matter. 

My dog received a recruiting letter from an ACC school. I filled out the online recruiting form on his behalf to make a point to a parent who thought their son was being recruited due to receiving several form letters. 

I agree with you, the top prospects are invited for free to many events or teams because they attract the coaches and scouts. This is not unusual and a common practice, its just not talked about for various reasons.

 

As far as letters in the mail, I dont know about you all but on a daily basis my email and my snail mail includes offers beyond imagination, especially those credit cards.  

 

Its the same way with all the invites to camps, showcases, etc.  Thats called marketing, and that is what people do who are selling something (yes they are selling). Its up to the parent to decide what would be the best for a player, but reality is that the BEST venues do not cost money other than team costs.

 

Its more of less pick your poison as far as the showcases and local tournaments.  

 

We add a few names to certain rosters at PG tournaments and showcases.  I have a 6 year old grandson that has been invited to events all over the country.  We do it to see who uses our lists. We have found out it is used a lot.