Big East - Defection of the Catholic Colleges?

Some talk here in St Louis about St Louis University maybe being in the mix. Here is what I heard as far as a 12 school conference.

Providence, St Johns, Seton Hall, Villanova, Georgetown, Xavier, Dayton, Marquette, DePaul, St Louis, Creighton, and Butler. Butler isnt Catholic so maybe Duquesne, Detroit, or Richmond if they truly want to be all Catholic.

An even crazier story is going to 14 school and adding Gonzaga and St Mary's from the west coast.

I cant see Creighton leaving the Missouri Valley, though, but can see schools leaving the A-10.

But Richmond isn't Catholic. Maybe Fordham is the A10 school, they are Jesuit


As a Fairfield U alum I would love to see them in the mix!

UConn has to be prepping to make a move to a major conf in the very near future. I'm guessing the ACC but I'm not sure the Big 10 wouldn't be a better option/fit.

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Originally posted by BaseballmomandCEP:
But Richmond isn't Catholic. Maybe Fordham is the A10 school, they are Jesuit


As a Fairfield U alum I would love to see them in the mix!

LaSalle, St Bonaventure and St Joseph's are also Catholic. There is supposed to be some announcement today. Of something.

Why would there be a conference made up of colleges representing just one religion? Is it just a coincidence, or is there a principle of some kind involved?

I'm losing track of the conference shuffle!

The only religion that matters in college sports right now is the "Holy Trinity of the Almighty Dollar"

I have no specific insight, but here's a link to some comments from the AD and basketball coach at my school: http://www.guhoyas.com/sports/...c-rel/121512aac.html

I've only met the basketball coach once so I don't really know him, but I've met the AD several times and was fortunate to have him as an assistant professor in a graduate level leadership course I took over the summer. He's a very upfront and honest man (actually surprisingly so, quite different from past experiences I've had), so I believe pretty much everything he's saying is truthful and real.

All this conference realignment makes my head spin. If only the NCAA took the reigns over football...

I like the baseball reference for a basketball centric school

" So again, we feel really good about where we are, the process we took to get to this point. A lot of work is left to be done, we've talked about it, it's probably the third inning of a nine inning game, so there is a lot of work left to be done."

Twotex that is a pretty interesting question! It is not a 'religion' thing per se, but more the alignment of similar academic/athletic philosophies I guess.

Only, I was thinking, there IS a tie between Catholic schools and basketball development. In the east anyway, when I grew up, and even now, the big thing in Catholic schools and parishes is CYO basketball (Catholic Youth). It is as big as AYSO s****r, and the some best basketball 'travel' players in youth hoops had their 1st taste of 'competitive' hoops in CYO. It is the basketball version of little league.

You have to be a member of a parish to play on their team but that was sometimes 'fudged' get get a better player on a better team. (It is kind of funny in our town, there is one dominant parish, our parish, and families would start figuring our that they need to sign their boys and girls up for CCD at our church if they wanted them on the St Ts basketball team. The nun's caught on, and starting making attendance at CCD classes and mass mandatory!) I really miss those basketball games in the church gym.

Another possible factor --- Catholic High Schools are often the best, safest places to get an affordable private education in the bigger cities. Philly, DC, NYC, Bridgeport, Jersey City, Baltimore, and so on, we can think of lots of urban Catholic High schools that have great HS basketball and a strong tradition of sending kids to Catholic colleges. Players might not all be Catholic, but those athletes dream of playing for Georgetown or St Johns or Seton Hall or Providence, or St Joes etc.

Many of the urban Catholic high schools (not all, of coures ) don't have much in the way of other sports. No budgets / fields for big time football. Baseball, some,lacrosse, nope not much. But they are very proud of the basketball programs.

I might be all wrong on this but it is interesting to think about why so many of the Catholic colleges and Universities are 'basketball centric.'

Any sociologists out there want to add to my train of thought?

quote:

Originally posted by BaseballmomandCEP:

Another possible factor --- Catholic High Schools are often the best, safest places to get an affordable private education .....

Wow. Not a point of view many have.
C HS are private, yet nothing more than a public education in a private environment. Furthermore, C HS were typically for those troubled students.

Ok, fair enough.

I can see where you might disagree with parts of my statement, but I am not sure I go along w/ the last statement about Catholic shcools being a place for the "troubled students" at all.

I was sort of generalizing based on past years working in admissions in a Catholic college and hearing many students and parents and guidance counselors over the years.

I guess more generally, putting aside the qualifiers like'best' or 'safer' or anything like that, I wonder if Catholic schools do have a tradition of baseketball, that would in turn lead to those Catholic colleges being more 'basketball centric.'

I probably should have avoided the 'editorializing' but was simply interested in Kay's question about the Catholic ties between those schools.



Let me steer this one back to its topic!

Any news today about the 'remains of the Big East' ??

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Originally posted by Bear:

quote:

Originally posted by BaseballmomandCEP:

Another possible factor --- Catholic High Schools are often the best, safest places to get an affordable private education .....

Wow. Not a point of view many have.
C HS are private, yet nothing more than a public education in a private environment. Furthermore, C HS were typically for those troubled students.

She has a valid point- at least for Philadelphia. Many parents feel better about sending their kids to Catholic schools. And it's not for the religion.

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Originally posted by AntzDad:

quote:

Originally posted by Bear:

quote:

Originally posted by BaseballmomandCEP:

Another possible factor --- Catholic High Schools are often the best, safest places to get an affordable private education .....

Wow. Not a point of view many have.
C HS are private, yet nothing more than a public education in a private environment. Furthermore, C HS were typically for those troubled students.

She has a valid point- at least for Philadelphia. Many parents feel better about sending their kids to Catholic schools. And it's not for the religion.

Where we lived we had a great high school. Many Catholic kids still went to LaSalle and SJ Prep. But you are right. Non Catholic kids went there too.

For the benefit of others, there are two sets of Catholic high schools in the Philadelphia area. There are the Catholic high schools and the Catholic private high schools.

You'd think as a Catholic, a former Villanova baseball player, a former Catholic school teacher, and a current sociology teacher, I'm sort of obligated to say something, right?
But I'm not a basketball guy. I just know know the connection between the Catholic schools and basketball has been a huge tradition in Philadelphia. As yes, those city Catholic schools are filled with non-Catholics. Mostly for a more structured environment, discipline, and moral teachings.
So far, I like the conference changes on the baseball end. Tough for Nova to compete without many scholarships against the Louisville's, Notre Dame's, and West Virginia's of the world.

BaseballByTheYard.com

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BaseballmomandCEP asked....Any sociologists out there want to add to my train of thought?

I'm not a sociologist but I stayed at a Marriott Courtyard last night. I agree with everything BaseballmomandCEP said. Growing up between Boston and Philly that is the way it is from my viewpoint, so I share that perspective. I played in many CYO basketball games as a Methodist youth!

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Any news today about the 'remains of the Big East' ??

The "remains of the Big East" IS UConn from my perspective. I hope they make the best decision for them, and don't have to rush to a decision to try to align themselves. The UCONN challenge is finding a conference fit. They suffer from Goldilocks syndrome. They are too big in some cases and not big enough in others (ACC) IMHO.

I don't fault the Big East schools for leaving, but I think this could have been avoided if the Big East commisioner listened to what his member schools were telling him, and kept them updated on his progress with adding new schools. From what I've read there was a big communication rift between the Big East office and the member schools interst in the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
that is the way it is from my viewpoint, so I share that perspective. I played in many CYO basketball games as a Methodist youth!

And, on your way to the cafeteria/auditorium/bingo hall/gymnasium, I'm sure you noticed the well-manicured playing fields most Catholic grade schools are blessed with.

In fact, your dad, and everyone else, probably parked on one of them. That's why CYO basketball is king. Tackling and sliding on asphalt hurts!

LOL. So true, Antzdad. All these comments are bringing back memories. I was a public school kid but we all played CYO hoops on the asphalt.

Meachrm I do agee in terms of baseball, it is good for the 'underfunded' baseball progams like Nova, leaving the Big East.

Fenway's analogy for UConn is a good one. I hope Goldilocks finds her 'just right' home soon, and that it is a good fit for baseball too.

uConn will end up in the ACC. The ACC is basketball first. UConn is basketball first. Good fit. It will also give BC a geographic rival.

Maybe a move to the ACC will give them more reason to upgrade the baseball facilities. I dont think other ACC schools like FSU or Miami would think much of the current digs.

uconns facility is fine

quote:

Originally posted by BK_Razorback:
Maybe a move to the ACC will give them more reason to upgrade the baseball facilities. I dont think other ACC schools like FSU or Miami would think much of the current digs.

How long has BC been in the ACC? Part of joining was a better baseball facility. They're still playing on the same field due to NIMBY.

I agree, Tom. I think the field is great, well maintained, top notch, much better than the BC 'tail gate' field And the setting is terrific, right on campus.

Hitting barn - no issues. Field house and workout facilties and sports med facilities are as good as we saw in some ACC schools and superior to some in other east coast conference schools I have seen. But, I am no expert.

(And of course, now I am biased.)

But the lack of a 'stadium' feel probably deters SOME top prospects who are used to flashier facilities. Not saying that it is a good point of view, personally, but it might keep them from signing a small handful of players who also have ACC options and want the bells and whistles that the southern stadiums offer.

Also a better stadium setting would draw bigger crowds, make it more fan friendly and fun.

If moving to a more 'glam' conference gets them support for improving facilties, that is a good thing, IMHO, but the program doesn't 'need' it.

RJM, you are right about BC. I don't think UCONN has a NIMBY issue, just needs a little more funding to make it a reality. ??

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
uConn will end up in the ACC. The ACC is basketball first. UConn is basketball first. Good fit. It will also give BC a geographic rival.

Who knows where all this conference stuff is headed. Keep in mind, however, the ACC just chose Louisville over UConn. If the ACC holds together (which I believe it will but is no certainty) football will be the driver (which is why Louisville was selected instead of UConn). Florida State, Clemson and Georgia Tech must remain satisfied that the conference is not so basketballcentric as it historically has been.

UConn is a slight possibility, but only if Notre Dame comes in as a full member, which is highly, highly doubtful. Even then, Navy might be a more likely option because of the existing ties to ND. UConn is in a tough, tough spot. The best option overall is probably Conference USA if the scattered Big East remnants simply are not viable as a conference.

I'm still not sure UConn and the Big 10 isn't an overall better fit academically and athletically.

At any rate, I hope the move works in Coach Penders favor and puts pressure on the AD to upgrade the facilities. Penders seems to be a good coach with a solid program that could get over the hump for good with just a little more financial support for the facilities.

A good turf field with upgraded seating and lights would be an awesome recruiting tool and obviously the solution to early spring practices in the weather.

I hope the Big Ten doesn't consider UConn as not sure what it brings to the table. In football which is main priority, the will be cellar dwellers.
By taking Rutgers they feel they have the NYC metro which includes southwest CT. Hartford is a small city, so there isn't anything gained there.

To Jim Delaney's credit, he said the only reason they took Maryland and Rutgers was for viewership and more money. He said nothing about what those schools bring athletically.

Also, for the other two schools that will be selected have to be members of the Association of American Universities, which contains 62 schools of leading research institutions. UConn is not a member.

My guess is Virginia, NC, GTECH, Vandy would make more sense.

It will be a cold day in h*ll, the day Ohio State loses to either Rutgers or Maryland in football.

Hartford may not be a large city, but it's in the center of the New England region. These expansions are about money which includes geographic expansion for conference network deals.