big hitting, SLOW running, sophomore 1B - what Division colleges to target for now?

Big hitting will trump foot speed for a 1B. (Also, improved speed may come with training and the end of growth. And, there is a DH.)

If he is a big hitter.

First of all, I don't think 7.8 is that slow for a 1B who can really hit the ball.  Wouldn't rule out D1 simply because of that...especially once you get out of the upper tier of teams.

Check out the D2 rosters of schools you are looking at.  Most of the schools in our area are 90% JUCO transfers.  Hard to even get them to give a HS player the time of day.  They only have 9 scholarships to work with and are very stingy with giving any money to non-proven players.

Understand really hit for a big, slow first baseman means a constant threat to hit one out. Slow runners clog the bases if they’re not clearing them. If he wants to play D1 he should be thinking pitching with his size and potential to improve his velocity overall the next couple of years. 

Given you don’t see him as a pro prospect you may have the process backwards. What does he want to do  with his life? What does he want for a major? Where does he want to go to school? Then cross schools of the list for lack of a quality baseball program.

He needs a business plan with target schools. Don’t throw spaghetti off the wall to see what sticks.

I like the perspective.  I'm with others... if he can hit the crap out of good pitching, there will be a spot for him somewhere.  I would recommend allotting a good chunk of time and effort toward speed and agility (and anything to help with athleticism).   Be prepared... a whole lot of folks will want to look at him as a P, particularly if the velo climbs as would be expected.  The big size is a definite plus as a P.  The down side to being big AND slow as a position player is that there is really nowhere else to put you other than 1B.  So, the bat has to clearly excel.

You didn't mention anthing related to academics.  Be sure to factor in the 4 vs 40 element.  Playing college ball can be great and a goal for many but make sure there is adequate attention to what the college choice (and major) will do for him for the next 40 years.  

If he continues to develop into a college level hitter but not D1, don't discount NAIA.  There are some very good programs and they not only have athletic scholarships but many are also able to pull $ from other buckets.  And if academics are good, there's some really good D3 ball in your neck of the woods.  The right grades can make them affordable.

PS - must have been typing same time as RJM... pretty much same message

There are 7.8 60 1B's in D1... And he can absolutely play somewhere in college.  Make sure he keeps working hard on hitting.  In our experience there is a huge leap in hitting when you go from 15U/16U to 17U/18U and start facing pitchers throwing upper 80's to low 90's with nasty sliders and arm side run.   

If he can truly hit that level of pitching there will be D1's that want him.   Most of the big 1B's that I know lately that run 7.8-8.0 are going JUCO out of high school

If he runs a legitimate consistent 7.9 sixty, then he's not SLOW, in my opinion.

Yes he is a realistic threat to "hit them out"..  Not constantly at this point, but it happens..  At a recent Coastal showcase he hit one out during one of their games then we laughed when we got his 60yd time back & their note that said they "might look at a 7.1-7.3" at corner infield.. (as in - "not you" - lol)  Though obviously that's a higher end D1 baseball school.. but still, everything I read here suggests he would need to be in that range generally to actually see the field at D1's.  Which is the crux of my question.. (where might he see the field?)

And do we "rule out" his being a pro prospect?  No, but we don't rule out hitting powerball either..  If it seemed he was capable of attaining that kind of ability, awesome - but not part of what we think is a realistic "plan".

Was just really looking for some direction of the division of baseball schools that are realistic based on his present running, size & skill set.. He/we will take a systematic approach to researching schools - he wants to cast a WIDE net.. and IS putting emphasis on playing baseball at school - and there's a LOT of schools that he can get what he needs academically & socially.. (and that is not part of our question to this forum) but is the kind of person that will enjoy the 4 years & then make the most of the next 40 regardless of where he goes to school. 

Thanks for all replies thus far!

game7 posted:

If he runs a legitimate consistent 7.9 sixty, then he's not SLOW, in my opinion.

7.9 is slow.  Most definitely.  Any slower than that and you should be either a Catcher or a PO.  There are plenty of D1's who will refuse to have a 7.9 position player on their roster.  And there are some D1's who would welcome a 7.9 guy who can really hit

I think you are selling your son short.   1st base is not a speed position.   It is a hitting it over the fence or an RBI position in the batting lineup and a "make the infielders throws look good" with a great glove defensively. 

If your son can convince many college coaches he has these skills then you're halfway there.    I don't recall any college first baseman stealing bases or having a tremendous throwing arm.   Focus on producing runs with the bat, and then see who is interested without regard to their college division.

Good luck!

3and2Fastball posted:

game7 posted:

If he runs a legitimate consistent 7.9 sixty, then he's not SLOW, in my opinion.

7.9 is slow.  Most definitely.

But is it SLOW?  lol

Woudn't the key metric coaches would be most interested in for a kid like this be his exit velo?  A plus hitting measureable could outweigh sub-optimal speed at 1B.  In other words, they may be inclined to take a closer look at whether he can really hit if his exit velo that is 90+ (despite a low 60).  Without that, I would be concerned he'd never get a serious look.

What's his exit velo?

Dirtbag30 posted:

What's his exit velo?

He did a PG this Summer & it was 89 (tee/wood) And on HitTrax max with BBCOR is 96 (close front pitched / bbcor)..   With different people with their different radar gizmos it seems like it's all over the place to be honest.  But safe to say high 80's I would think.

fenwaysouth posted:

I think you are selling your son short.   1st base is not a speed position.   It is a hitting it over the fence or an RBI position in the batting lineup and a "make the infielders throws look good" with a great glove defensively. 

If your son can convince many college coaches he has these skills then you're halfway there.    I don't recall any college first baseman stealing bases or having a tremendous throwing arm.   Focus on producing runs with the bat, and then see who is interested without regard to their college division.

Good luck!

thank you & I do think I could be selling my son short but really try hard to not be "that dad" who thinks his son is some big thing.. He's blessed with size & tools - but clearly NOT one of the 3 measurables that seems to stop you dead - the 60.  It's the first thing they do at these events..

Our Fall travel season ended with a PG tourney at end of September, & since we've just been going to some colleges for fun father/son Sundays & some experience for him & to see/tour some schools..  and I just wonder if after the coaches see his 60 they already have him "crossed off".  (To read many of the threads here - it seems that's how it works - but maybe it's not always like that..)

Again thanks - all the replies are awesome & really appreciated. College is a giant Rubik's cube to us thus far & we appreciate all the tips & thoughts.  Cheers

YachtRocker posted:

....  At a recent Coastal showcase he hit one out during one of their games then we laughed when we got his 60yd time back & their note that said they "might look at a 7.1-7.3" at corner infield.. (as in - "not you" - lol)  Though obviously that's a higher end D1 baseball school.. but still, everything I read here suggests he would need to be in that range generally to actually see the field at D1's.  Which is the crux of my question.. (where might he see the field?)

And do we "rule out" his being a pro prospect?  No, but we don't rule out hitting powerball either..  If it seemed he was capable of attaining that kind of ability, awesome - but not part of what we think is a realistic "plan".

Was just really looking for some direction of the division of baseball schools that are realistic based on his present running, size & skill set.. He/we will take a systematic approach to researching schools - he wants to cast a WIDE net.. and IS putting emphasis on playing baseball at school - and there's a LOT of schools that he can get what he needs academically & socially.. (and that is not part of our question to this forum) but is the kind of person that will enjoy the 4 years & then make the most of the next 40 regardless of where he goes to school. 

Thanks for all replies thus far!

 

I'll try to drill down further to your core questions.  First, regarding the 60 time...  As a big power 1B, there is some allowance and he certainly doesn't have to be a 7.0 guy but I respectfully disagree with a few others here.  I think you are right to think that something very close to 8.0 will likely eliminate him from consideration at most decent D1 programs, as you have already experienced to a degree.  If you are looking for that magic number, it doesn't exist because there are too many variables.  Just how good of a hitter he will be and how much tolerance a specific school will have are big ones.  I would say, generally, he should shoot for something close to 7.6 and know that he will really have to mash for most decent D1's.  As someone else mentioned, it is problematic when a player really clogs the basepaths.  Unfortunately, there is also the "image" factor that better D1's subscribe to... either big AND athletic or fast AND athletic.  Particularly slow speed doesn't portray athletic. 

I think the answer to which division has the same factors in play.  Add in the fact that there is significant overlap within divisions with the existence of particularly strong or weak teams in each. 

I have seen big 15/16 y.o.'s work their tails off and become more athletic and quicker than their young big bodies were previously.  I am not ruling anything out...  but also trying to provide some real perspective.

I would not worry about anything at 15, especially if he is still growing and getting through any awkward stages. Work on speed,strength, conditioning and of course skills. If around, get on the best travel team where he can play. Riding pine does not garner much exposure.  Always strive to improve

Remember that there is a Hierarchy and I would not focus on a level at this point. His level will make itself known as he grows and matures. By that I mean The Bid Dogs will find you if you meet what they are looking for.  It is hard for a standout not to stand out.  The other levels are not looking seriously at anybody until Jr or summer before Sr. year and even into Sr. year. 

Now is the time to work on Grades. The Better Grades the more choices and for nearly all schools the more $$ in total merit they can give. GPA/ACT/SAT means $$, I found that especially with NAIA where my boys were most recruited. By the time he hits Sr year it will be too late to boost the GPA much. Many of us spend a lot of money on the the athletic side but fail to put money into the academic side and the difference between a 2.0, 3.0, 3.5 and 3.75+ GPA could mean the difference between  $0 and a $50k+ in merit aid.  Check the school's scholarship page in addition to the roster size 

Most important have fun, make this a positive, supportive and encouraging time time for you and your son.  Once in college you will not have this time together dedicated to a common goal again. Heck, you may be lucky if he returns  a text or answers a phone call from you after he leaves. 

For a big, strong, slow first baseman recruiting becomes an eye of the beholder issue. In high school and travel a lot of the D1 recruits are middle of the field players with power, speed and agility. 

At many D1’s first and DH are where players are moved who can hit and didn’t win their position. A friend/former teammate’s son was recruited to a top ranked program, became an All American shortstop, first round pick and has played seven-plus years in the majors.

Freshman year he was a Freshman All American first baseman. He was placed at first until the existing shortstop was drafted and moved on. He had never played anywhere but short and pitcher in his life. They figured he would handle first based on athleticism, agility and his hands. The next year a future catcher played first.

But getting back to “eye of the beholder” if the kid mashes he will appeal to someone.

2BOY’s has an important point about academics. I’ve always joked if a kid hits .250 and gets a C in math the dad is more likely to hire a hitting instructor than a math tutor. The money I spent on private SAT tutoring was as important as the hitting instructor.

For reference, my kid was a big, slow 1B in high school, and he played 4 year at a top 20 D3 program. He started years 2-4. He hit with power, even in a system where it wasn't a priority.

You just don’t see many D1 hitters who look “slow” running to 1st base. Even the big guys look athletic running.

This process doesn't have to be very difficult for him. Next fall, attend a few camps. Inexpensive lower ranked D1 (PSU, Rider, etc) and different level D2 (Shippensburg, Seton Hill, etc). Those coaches will let you know where he projects. If no interest at D1 or D2, there will be interest at D3 and juco. Juco might be a good option for him even if he does have D2 interest. After 2 years of juco, you pretty much know exactly where you fit for the following two.

You probably won't be able to convince him of this, but in the long run playing D2 vs D3 doesn't amount to squat. The important thing is the experience. Which school is the better academic and social fit? Which has the better coaching staff? Better facilities? Less student load debt? Better future employment numbers?!

In the meantime, he just needs to work on hitting the ball loud. He has plenty of time to get stronger and to refine the swing. Remember, the vast majority of HS baseball players get offered a chance to play college ball after their HS junior season. The ones who get offered earlier than that have college coaches contacting them.

Good luck.

I thought I had the corner market on the big and slow talent … nice to know that it's not a lonely place (and others can appreciate the cost of my weekly grocery bill).  This past summer, I had a player development evaluator suggest that "no one will care how fast (or how slow) he runs" … if my 13 yr old continues to develop and reaches the projections for his power hitting potential. 

That said, a 60 yd dash > 8 seconds is SLOW! 
My son needs to know that and he needs to own it!  

As parents, we continue to advocate for my son's multi-sport participation for his athletic development ... if your son does not play other sports, you may want to nudge him to enroll in a secondary "just for fun" sport that demands fitness and quickness.

My other advise, to add to this subject, is to use the player profile pages @PG and @PBR to create a list of comparable data sets in the basic measurables - exit velo, position velo (pitching velo) and 60 yd dash at your son's target position.  You (and your son) can scrape enough player comps, in a few hours, to benchmark his own measureables to any level of talent located anywhere in the country. My son now knows and fully understands what great, good, and what average is for his grad year cohorts and for one grad year ahead.  No showcase trip to FL or GA required.