I want to start this discussion.
Let's go.........
I want to start this discussion.
I want to start this discussion.
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He is a sorry excuse for a human being. And the AD needs to grow a pair. What else do you need to know?
Was wondering when somebody would start one.
Two trains of thought, first, my son would never play for Bobby Knight.
Second, a good quote I heard today on the Radio from another coach..."If this players dad had hit the kid a couple of times when he was growing up, then Coach Knight wouldn't have had to"
Two trains of thought, first, my son would never play for Bobby Knight.
Second, a good quote I heard today on the Radio from another coach..."If this players dad had hit the kid a couple of times when he was growing up, then Coach Knight wouldn't have had to"
I need to know why he is a sorry excuse.
Most of his ex players show extreme appreciation for his coaching efforts with them.
Not saying touching a player is right, but think his methods are only outdated rather than uneffective.
Do football coaches get away with more physical "abuse" than non conctact sports?
I personally loved his coaching move that's recently been on the news. Got the players attention real quick when sometimes it's somewhat impossible in today's world.
Don't think a tap to the chin is any more harmful than getting fouled hard in the paint. Maybe AD's and the NCAA should start suspending those who committ hard fouls?
Food for thought.
I personally would love to meet B. Knight. From an outsider looking in, I believe the man has a unacceptable approach with today's society but an effective one on the flip side.
Again, not that it makes it right, but has any physical contact with any of his incidents caused injury to any player?
Most of his ex players show extreme appreciation for his coaching efforts with them.
Not saying touching a player is right, but think his methods are only outdated rather than uneffective.
Do football coaches get away with more physical "abuse" than non conctact sports?
I personally loved his coaching move that's recently been on the news. Got the players attention real quick when sometimes it's somewhat impossible in today's world.
Don't think a tap to the chin is any more harmful than getting fouled hard in the paint. Maybe AD's and the NCAA should start suspending those who committ hard fouls?
Food for thought.
I personally would love to meet B. Knight. From an outsider looking in, I believe the man has a unacceptable approach with today's society but an effective one on the flip side.
Again, not that it makes it right, but has any physical contact with any of his incidents caused injury to any player?
I have read and heard all the same things about Coach Knight's players loving him. Most of them thank him for the success they have had latter in life.
I also know a few kids that have played Baseball at Tech, and they all say that he is wonderful. That he comes and talks to them during practice and that everyone on campus that comes in contact with him have nothing but admiration for him.
One other thing; Look at the way college and pro sports players potray themselves these days. From T.O. and A.I. to U of Miami football, coach Knight's teams and players would never act in those manners.
I hope that the same people that hate whole ME attitude in sports, aren't the same ones calling for his job.
I also know a few kids that have played Baseball at Tech, and they all say that he is wonderful. That he comes and talks to them during practice and that everyone on campus that comes in contact with him have nothing but admiration for him.
One other thing; Look at the way college and pro sports players potray themselves these days. From T.O. and A.I. to U of Miami football, coach Knight's teams and players would never act in those manners.
I hope that the same people that hate whole ME attitude in sports, aren't the same ones calling for his job.
I'm a mom who saw the video and I don't think what he did was so awful. When my son was a stinker in middle school, one of his teachers (a former military man) got hacked off at his antics and shoved him up against the wall. Some parents probably would have called that abuse and sued both him and the school, but we were thankful that he was willing to do what was necessary to get our son's attention. (Son acted much better in that class afterwards, by the way.)
The player, Michael Prince is a local kid...a graduate of Plano West.
Bobby Knight is under the microscope due to his previous incidents, anything he does or says will be scrutized but I am surprised the media latched on to this one.... it must have been a slow news day...
Bobby Knight is under the microscope due to his previous incidents, anything he does or says will be scrutized but I am surprised the media latched on to this one.... it must have been a slow news day...
Athletic director: Knight did nothing wrong in latest flap
By BETSY BLANEY, Associated Press Writer
November 14, 2006
AP - Nov 14, 2:13 pm EST
LUBBOCK, Texas (AP) -- Texas Tech coach Bob Knight says there were times he was wrong when his hot temper got the best of him on a basketball court. Not this time, however.
This time, everyone from the player he confronted to the player's mother and school officials say what Knight did was no big deal.
It all started Monday night when Knight went after Michael Prince, forcefully pushing his chin upward and telling him to look him in the eye, during a timeout late in the Red Raiders' 86-74 victory over Gardner-Webb.
Athletic director Gerald Myers defended Knight on Tuesday, saying he did nothing wrong when he "quickly lifted" Prince's chin. The president of the school's faculty senate, James H. Smith, said Knight's action was not "physical abuse or violence."
Knight, with a history of chair-throwing, referee baiting and run-ins with school officials, was not available for comment to The Associated Press before Tuesday night's home game against Arkansas-Little Rock.
"I'm sure there were some cases where I have been wrong, but (Monday night) wasn't one of them," Knight told ESPN.com. "I was trying to help a kid, and I think I did.
"I flipped his chin up and told him to look me right in the eye so he could do the job we want. I said, 'Can you?' And he said, 'Yes,' and I said, 'OK, sit down and let's go.' If that's an issue, then I'm living in the wrong country."
Prince told the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal after Monday's game that what happened with the coach "was nothing."
"He was trying to teach me and I had my head down, so he raised my chin up," said Prince, who was seen moving his jaw around as he sat on the bench after the confrontation. "He was telling me to go out there and don't be afraid to make mistakes. He said I was being too hard on myself."
Prince's mother, Suzette Prince, told the Avalanche-Journal that she was sitting with her husband, Mike, across from the Tech bench. She said she didn't think this episode should be an issue.
"We talked with Michael, and he had just committed two fouls in a row," she said. "He told us that Coach Knight was asking him if he's ready to play. He said they needed him ready to play."
She said she didn't think Knight should be reprimanded, and the school made no reference to disciplinary action against Knight.
Prince's father played for former Purdue coach Gene Keady when he was at Western Kentucky. Mike Prince is listed as Western Kentucky's 30th all-time leading scorer with 1,120 points.
"Coach Knight did not slap Michael," Myers said in a statement. "Michael came off the court with his head down, and coach Knight quickly lifted Michael's chin and said, 'Hold your head up and don't worry about your mistakes. Just play the game."'
Knight drew loud applause and cheers when he walked into a half-full arena for Tuesday night's game. He exchanged pleasantries with Arkansas-Little Rock coach Steve Shields and briefly spoke with officials.
Several students said they supported Knight and his brand of discipline. Some brought signs, and Garrett Welch's black-and-red one read, "IT WAS JUST A LOVE TAP."
Welch blamed the media for blowing the incident out of proportion.
"It happens everywhere, junior high, high school," he said. "Just because it's Bobby Knight, they're making a big deal out of it."
Knight gave a brief statement at his post-game news conference Monday, then answered one question before exiting the room. He did not address what happened with Prince.
It was win No. 871 for Knight, who is five shy of tying Adolph Rupp for second place on the men's career list. He needs nine more victories to surpass Dean Smith for the most victories in men's Division I history.
Knight's career has featured three national championships, all at Indiana, but plenty of outbursts.
In 1992, Knight kicked a chair on the bench while son Pat, then a player for him at Indiana and now his assistant and successor-to-be at Texas Tech, was sitting in it. When fans behind the team bench booed, Knight turned and responded with an obscenity.
He was accused of grabbing a player by the throat during a practice in 1997, an incident that was caught on videotape and created the whirlwind that eventually led to his firing from Indiana in September 2000.
Knight was fired for what Indiana officials called a violation of a zero-tolerance behavior policy shortly after he grabbed the arm of a student who greeted him on campus by saying, "Hey, what's up, Knight?"
His most infamous moment came in a game against Purdue in 1985, when he threw a chair across the court after being given a technical foul.
By BETSY BLANEY, Associated Press Writer
November 14, 2006
AP - Nov 14, 2:13 pm EST
LUBBOCK, Texas (AP) -- Texas Tech coach Bob Knight says there were times he was wrong when his hot temper got the best of him on a basketball court. Not this time, however.
This time, everyone from the player he confronted to the player's mother and school officials say what Knight did was no big deal.
It all started Monday night when Knight went after Michael Prince, forcefully pushing his chin upward and telling him to look him in the eye, during a timeout late in the Red Raiders' 86-74 victory over Gardner-Webb.
Athletic director Gerald Myers defended Knight on Tuesday, saying he did nothing wrong when he "quickly lifted" Prince's chin. The president of the school's faculty senate, James H. Smith, said Knight's action was not "physical abuse or violence."
Knight, with a history of chair-throwing, referee baiting and run-ins with school officials, was not available for comment to The Associated Press before Tuesday night's home game against Arkansas-Little Rock.
"I'm sure there were some cases where I have been wrong, but (Monday night) wasn't one of them," Knight told ESPN.com. "I was trying to help a kid, and I think I did.
"I flipped his chin up and told him to look me right in the eye so he could do the job we want. I said, 'Can you?' And he said, 'Yes,' and I said, 'OK, sit down and let's go.' If that's an issue, then I'm living in the wrong country."
Prince told the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal after Monday's game that what happened with the coach "was nothing."
"He was trying to teach me and I had my head down, so he raised my chin up," said Prince, who was seen moving his jaw around as he sat on the bench after the confrontation. "He was telling me to go out there and don't be afraid to make mistakes. He said I was being too hard on myself."
Prince's mother, Suzette Prince, told the Avalanche-Journal that she was sitting with her husband, Mike, across from the Tech bench. She said she didn't think this episode should be an issue.
"We talked with Michael, and he had just committed two fouls in a row," she said. "He told us that Coach Knight was asking him if he's ready to play. He said they needed him ready to play."
She said she didn't think Knight should be reprimanded, and the school made no reference to disciplinary action against Knight.
Prince's father played for former Purdue coach Gene Keady when he was at Western Kentucky. Mike Prince is listed as Western Kentucky's 30th all-time leading scorer with 1,120 points.
"Coach Knight did not slap Michael," Myers said in a statement. "Michael came off the court with his head down, and coach Knight quickly lifted Michael's chin and said, 'Hold your head up and don't worry about your mistakes. Just play the game."'
Knight drew loud applause and cheers when he walked into a half-full arena for Tuesday night's game. He exchanged pleasantries with Arkansas-Little Rock coach Steve Shields and briefly spoke with officials.
Several students said they supported Knight and his brand of discipline. Some brought signs, and Garrett Welch's black-and-red one read, "IT WAS JUST A LOVE TAP."
Welch blamed the media for blowing the incident out of proportion.
"It happens everywhere, junior high, high school," he said. "Just because it's Bobby Knight, they're making a big deal out of it."
Knight gave a brief statement at his post-game news conference Monday, then answered one question before exiting the room. He did not address what happened with Prince.
It was win No. 871 for Knight, who is five shy of tying Adolph Rupp for second place on the men's career list. He needs nine more victories to surpass Dean Smith for the most victories in men's Division I history.
Knight's career has featured three national championships, all at Indiana, but plenty of outbursts.
In 1992, Knight kicked a chair on the bench while son Pat, then a player for him at Indiana and now his assistant and successor-to-be at Texas Tech, was sitting in it. When fans behind the team bench booed, Knight turned and responded with an obscenity.
He was accused of grabbing a player by the throat during a practice in 1997, an incident that was caught on videotape and created the whirlwind that eventually led to his firing from Indiana in September 2000.
Knight was fired for what Indiana officials called a violation of a zero-tolerance behavior policy shortly after he grabbed the arm of a student who greeted him on campus by saying, "Hey, what's up, Knight?"
His most infamous moment came in a game against Purdue in 1985, when he threw a chair across the court after being given a technical foul.
I can’t say I have followed Bobby Knight that closely, but you don’t need to follow him that closely to know he has some serious anger issues. He has obviously had a very successful record on the basketball court. However, the price of his poor choices in expressing his anger has been costly. Didn’t he lose his dream job? You can’t tell me that coaching at Tech is a step up in his career. I can’t help but feel he is a troubled man. The price for him has been the self-destruction of his career.
The young men he is coaching are learning what? He bullied and shamed that young man. The picture I saw looked like an angry man grabbing a young man by the face. Yeah, they won the game. Is that the lesson we want to teach our kids? He is angry and abusive. The parents of these kids defending the coach for grabbing, hitting and humiliating their son remind me of the spouse of an abusive husband. We all see the black eyes and the bruises, but they stay for more of the same. Sadly, the kids learn the same thing. They learn to express their fear and anger in an inappropriate way – all to be passed down to the next generation – probably the same way it was passed down to Bobby Knight.
I don’t doubt that Bobby Knight loves each every one of the young man he has abused. It is a strange paradox. We can love and abuse people we care for. He can justify his abusive behavior by saying he is getting the kids attention and the parents can think he is making a man of their son. However, I suspect that all he is making is someone that will repeat what he has been taught with his own children or your grandkids when he starts coaching.
The young men he is coaching are learning what? He bullied and shamed that young man. The picture I saw looked like an angry man grabbing a young man by the face. Yeah, they won the game. Is that the lesson we want to teach our kids? He is angry and abusive. The parents of these kids defending the coach for grabbing, hitting and humiliating their son remind me of the spouse of an abusive husband. We all see the black eyes and the bruises, but they stay for more of the same. Sadly, the kids learn the same thing. They learn to express their fear and anger in an inappropriate way – all to be passed down to the next generation – probably the same way it was passed down to Bobby Knight.
I don’t doubt that Bobby Knight loves each every one of the young man he has abused. It is a strange paradox. We can love and abuse people we care for. He can justify his abusive behavior by saying he is getting the kids attention and the parents can think he is making a man of their son. However, I suspect that all he is making is someone that will repeat what he has been taught with his own children or your grandkids when he starts coaching.
I'd let my son play for him. Look at his graduation rate, and talk to his past players.
Too many folks want to be PC today. I grew up in an era that teachers/coaches were allowed to issue corporal (sp?) punishment. Since the paddle has been taken out of the administrators hands, they have no real control.
Jusy my opinion....which cost nothing, while having even less value.
Be good,
David
Too many folks want to be PC today. I grew up in an era that teachers/coaches were allowed to issue corporal (sp?) punishment. Since the paddle has been taken out of the administrators hands, they have no real control.
Jusy my opinion....which cost nothing, while having even less value.
Be good,
David
Before this becomes a condemnation of Knight, consider that there are a number of coaches in college that are considered "players coaches". That always sounds like a coach that is trying to be the players' buddy. Larry Coker at the University of Miami comes to mind and things are not going well in the discipline department there.
It is becoming increasingly difficult for coaches to control players. The players realize they are more important to the university than the doctoral student that is working on cures for cancer or stronger material to build structures with to withstand hurricanes, etc.
Knight has a structured regime where you have to attend class, pass your classes, attend study hall, keep your nose clean and have respect for yourself. As a Tech alum, I do wish he wouldn't place his hands on a player ever, but having said that, if that tap caused that player trauma (which the player said it didn't), he should consider getting out of NCAA D-1 sports.
My son could play for any coach like Knight that still understands that 95% of his players will not go pro and tries to develop a productive human with an education, even if that means the occasional pop on the chin...he probably needs it.
It is becoming increasingly difficult for coaches to control players. The players realize they are more important to the university than the doctoral student that is working on cures for cancer or stronger material to build structures with to withstand hurricanes, etc.
Knight has a structured regime where you have to attend class, pass your classes, attend study hall, keep your nose clean and have respect for yourself. As a Tech alum, I do wish he wouldn't place his hands on a player ever, but having said that, if that tap caused that player trauma (which the player said it didn't), he should consider getting out of NCAA D-1 sports.
My son could play for any coach like Knight that still understands that 95% of his players will not go pro and tries to develop a productive human with an education, even if that means the occasional pop on the chin...he probably needs it.
If you do not like the way Knight runs his program, then do not go to Tech.. You/your son probably could not play at that level anyways...
Much worse happens at EVERY high school football practice and college practice every day...
why is basketball suppose to be different?
Much worse happens at EVERY high school football practice and college practice every day...
why is basketball suppose to be different?
Ken,
Never thought I'd read a post of yours being so PC. IMO he's a great coach and wanted the kids eyes. Like him or not ~ the guy loves his players ~ ask em. Old school - you bet - more of it needed these days. That's my 2 cents.
PS Ken, I believe I know how you really feel about Bobby Knight.
Never thought I'd read a post of yours being so PC. IMO he's a great coach and wanted the kids eyes. Like him or not ~ the guy loves his players ~ ask em. Old school - you bet - more of it needed these days. That's my 2 cents.
PS Ken, I believe I know how you really feel about Bobby Knight.
quote:Originally posted by swingdoctor14:
Ken,
Never thought I'd read a post of yours being so PC. IMO he's a great coach and wanted the kids eyes. Like him or not ~ the guy loves his players ~ ask em. Old school - you bet - more of it needed these days. That's my 2 cents.
PS Ken, I believe I know how you really feel about Bobby Knight.
To be honest, I think amatuer sports need many more Bobby Knights.
And I bet you this, the next time that kid comes to the bench you can bet your azz he will be lookin' someone in the eyes.
Don't agree with physical abuse, but a chest bump, chin slap, ect. sometimes is necessary in today's world of amatuer sports.
Kids that fall suspect generally should have had this happen to them by their parents a long time ago.
And back to my usaual point. 
FYI- I have never touched a player I have coached or plan to in the future.
Just in case.
I do not condone a coach touching his/her players, but this "risk" was a part of the mix at Texas Tech. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, including the Princes. And -- not that any of you are doing this 
-- I don't think it's fair to conclude that Michael Prince is a discipline problem, or that somehow his "upbringing" lacked something and he had this coming. In my opinion, the incident was blown out of proportion.
-- I don't think it's fair to conclude that Michael Prince is a discipline problem, or that somehow his "upbringing" lacked something and he had this coming. In my opinion, the incident was blown out of proportion.quote:Originally posted by Panther Dad:
I do not condone a coach touching his/her players, but this "risk" was a part of the mix at Texas Tech. It should not come as a surprise to anyone, including the Princes. And -- not that any of you are doing this
Agreed and I don't read that into any of the comments. He is obviously a good kid and both he and his parents indicated it wasn't a big deal. I wouldn't expect them to say anything else publicly, but in this case, I think they seem to truly mean it.
PD - On the contrary, I would go to the other end of the spectrum and say that if he was coming out of Plano West (a school that based upon personal experience I have respect for) that he was probably a good kid.
I was glad to see the parents and the player back the coach in this situation. I too think the whole thing is way over blown.
P.S. glad to still see you around PD...your postings have dropped off in the past month
I was glad to see the parents and the player back the coach in this situation. I too think the whole thing is way over blown.
P.S. glad to still see you around PD...your postings have dropped off in the past month
It seems that most of you support Knight and his actions. While I disagree, I have to ask: Would you be okay with your son's junior high, high school or college teacher or baseball or basketball coach behaving in this manner? I would not. Why is Knight not held to the same standard?
quote:Originally posted by sluggo:
It seems that most of you support Knight and his actions. While I disagree, I have to ask: Would you be okay with your son's junior high, high school or college teacher or baseball or basketball coach behaving in this manner? I would not. Why is Knight not held to the same standard?
I agree with you. I wouldn't want my sons coach to act this way.
But I also wouldn't want my kid acting like some of the players either.
(not putting any blame on this paricular kid, for all I know he may be the greatest kid in the world)
So where do we put the blame and where do we draw the line.
Should A-Rod and Varitek be terminated from their jobs? They threw punches.
Should a player who intentionally puts one in the rib cage be suspended indefinately?
If we are gonna demand responsibility from a coach, should we demand responsibility for players actions as well?
What I think is missing here is the intent and the actual physical harm.
If Knight layed the kid out and stood over him like T.O. after a TD, then I would feel different.
I just think the intent of Knights actions are to get something through to a player. His lessons are important. His actions are suspect. But too many dismiss the reasons and only judge the actions.
Again, I'm on the fence here. But this is interesting to discuss.
Bringing up T.O. made me think of something.
What if the Tuna did the same thing to T.O. after one of his sideline shows?
Would the media and society view it in a different light?
I think we all know the answer.
We don't know what happens behind the scenes with Knight or his players.
Maybe, just maybe.........Knights actions may have elimated any T.O. tantrums that the Tech player may have done.
Agian, this is hypothetical. I do not judge the Tech. player. Just throwing it out there.
What if the Tuna did the same thing to T.O. after one of his sideline shows?
Would the media and society view it in a different light?
I think we all know the answer.
We don't know what happens behind the scenes with Knight or his players.
Maybe, just maybe.........Knights actions may have elimated any T.O. tantrums that the Tech player may have done.
Agian, this is hypothetical. I do not judge the Tech. player. Just throwing it out there.
CS -- I've found that the discussions here are much more intelligent than those on the football forums -- although I am but an observer there (for now). Keep this between us though, ok?
Keep this between us though, ok?
PD - your secrets safe with me
Sluggo - No, I would not want a coach pushing,shoving, hitting my son but if they need to lift his chin to try to obtain some eye contact I would not be disturbed by it.
Have all of you seen the video? Maybe I missed something but from the video I saw it looked harmless.
The smack I saw from the NY coach to the 12 year old player during the televised little league world series looked MUCH worse and I never heard anyone question the coach's actions on TV or talk radio in that instance......I know D1 and little league are night and day but I would think there would be more outrage by a "pop" in a televised little league game than a chin lift in a college basketball game. However, I do understand that Knight is being watched like a hawk due to his prior incidents.
Sluggo - No, I would not want a coach pushing,shoving, hitting my son but if they need to lift his chin to try to obtain some eye contact I would not be disturbed by it.
Have all of you seen the video? Maybe I missed something but from the video I saw it looked harmless.
The smack I saw from the NY coach to the 12 year old player during the televised little league world series looked MUCH worse and I never heard anyone question the coach's actions on TV or talk radio in that instance......I know D1 and little league are night and day but I would think there would be more outrage by a "pop" in a televised little league game than a chin lift in a college basketball game. However, I do understand that Knight is being watched like a hawk due to his prior incidents.
To be honest, I think amatuer sports need many more Bobby Knights.
I think that KG has got a great point by saying there needs to be more Bobby Knights in all sports. I would love to have coach Knight as my baseball coach (if he coached baseball). The man knows everything that there is to know about basketball. He doesn't take **** from the players that think that they know all that there is. He is an intellegent person that has a few problems in the past. But another thing is we don't what was said in all of the events for him to react the way that he did we he "attacked" the players. Coach Knight also targets at helping the player as a whole. Trying to make him a great player, helping his attitude, focusing in the classroom, and I would think other things. So try and give the man some credit.
I think that KG has got a great point by saying there needs to be more Bobby Knights in all sports. I would love to have coach Knight as my baseball coach (if he coached baseball). The man knows everything that there is to know about basketball. He doesn't take **** from the players that think that they know all that there is. He is an intellegent person that has a few problems in the past. But another thing is we don't what was said in all of the events for him to react the way that he did we he "attacked" the players. Coach Knight also targets at helping the player as a whole. Trying to make him a great player, helping his attitude, focusing in the classroom, and I would think other things. So try and give the man some credit.
Panther Dad: What football forums are you talking about and what is the site? And yes, Bobby has some rough edges, but we need more like him.
quote:Originally posted by sluggo:
It seems that most of you support Knight and his actions. While I disagree, I have to ask: Would you be okay with your son's junior high, high school or college teacher or baseball or basketball coach behaving in this manner? I would not. Why is Knight not held to the same standard?
Hypothetically, if my son got to play for a HS coach that had a track record of turning out kids that were as successful post HS as Knights kids have been post college, then I would not have a problem with his antics.
There is a reason Knight and Parcells have lasted as long as they have. You can call a rookie "she" and "she" jumps at the chance to come back and play for you years later.
.
I believe in strict discipline. I wish "pops" were still allowed in all schools. I like tough coaches. I am not happy with my son's football coaches right now because strict discipline for scofflaws is lacking. The hard working players are not happy about it either. I guess the problem I have is when a coach (espicially one that cannot control his emotions) hits or grabs a kid in the head or face. That is a line that should not be crossed.
As far as being a Bobby Knight fan, I used to be, but he is a trainwreck waiting to happen. But I respect everyone's right to support him. That is why they make chocolate and vanilla.
As far as being a Bobby Knight fan, I used to be, but he is a trainwreck waiting to happen. But I respect everyone's right to support him. That is why they make chocolate and vanilla.