Boyd Nation's 2006 Pitchers Abuse Points

quote:

After following for 5 years, I have seen a significant correlation between pitcher injuries and high pitch counts.

Did you track this yourself or do you know of any references that document this? From what I know of PAP, there are few, if any, published studies showing any real correlation. I'm not trying to say PAP is bogus. I'd just really like to see some data. Do you know of any?

Growing up with 6 sisters, mom, and grandma, the term PAP test had a different meaning? No offense, but you hit a funny bone.

quote:

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
Growing up with 6 sisters, mom, and grandma, the term PAP test had a different meaning? No offense, but you hit a funny bone.

I was waiting for someone to say what most of use were thinking

Oldslugger8, I thought you were talking about my house but forgot to add the one brother....

TPM,
I checked the list andliked the data....I was just wondering if this had anything to do with the fact that certain programs have the opportunities to grab more front line pitchers then some of the others. I'm sure the guys that are #'s 5-8 on the Clemson staff could have been 1 or 2 and some smaller D1.. The smaller D1 or mid major with a quality #1 is going to ride him for what he's worth.

Then upon looking further, there are many smaller schools at 0 - 0. It would be interesting to see it broken down by conferences. You've been keeping track so you also know who the draft choices were obvious #1 or 2 guys that will get a lot of opportunities..

That PAP test just SMEARS the WHIP stat--especially if the pitchers wear the old-style STIRRUPS.

I give.....what's PAP?

quote:

Originally posted by Beezer:
I give.....what's PAP?

PAP= Pitchers Abuse Points

Before this thread gets totally hijacked...

quote:

I checked the list andliked the data....I was just wondering if this had anything to do with the fact that certain programs have the opportunities to grab more front line pitchers then some of the others. I'm sure the guys that are #'s 5-8 on the Clemson staff could have been 1 or 2 and some smaller D1.. The smaller D1 or mid major with a quality #1 is going to ride him for what he's worth.

I agree with this assessment. Also has a lot to do with coaches philosophy.

I think my son had almost all of his teams 8 cat IV and V starts. I seriously doubt that would have happened at a school with a deeper pitching staff. Thankfully those days are over.

I knew after I posted that I would get some "man" comments.

Coach Merc,
You are correct, any pitcher that is able to get the job done will be used more frequently, but to throw 133+ in a game, on several occassions, just boggles my mind for a young pitcher.
No way am I breaking it down in conferences.

Roger Thomas,
I will send a pm with info you asked about.

Good information...one more tool when looking at schools.

Like any information it would be prudent to look deeper into a program and look at history over a few years, look at team stats for distribution of innings pitched. Look at pitching coach changes and see if numbers follow him from 1 school to another or did numbers jump up once pitching coach left. Look at individual schools in conference.

After Frank F's post I looked at the rest of the Ivy league and I guess it shows that the coaches did not attend their schools, PAP's for most schools was well into 6 figures.

I do think it is a valid opinion that depth of staff and as Coach Merc suggest the 5-8 at Clemson might be the workhorse at a smaller school. We parents might want to be careful on what we or our son's wish for ("My Son picked xyz school because the coach said he will get significant playing time right away") that statemnet may be truer than you wish!!!

At quick glance it seems that u can find high and low in PAP for most conferences.

I can only imagine what PAP would be for high school and travel ball, I bet the #'s might even be higher in some cases!!! Little League PAP could be its own site, especially when you lower the number of pithces per category ranking.

...but not by me...I'm just the messenger!

quote:

Originally posted by Novice Dad:
Good information...one more tool when looking at schools.

We parents might want to be careful on what we or our son's wish for ("My Son picked xyz school because the coach said he will get significant playing time right away") that statemnet may be truer than you wish!!!

For a pitcher, important to consider. Do you want significant playing time year after year, do you want to be the workhorse, or share responsibilities.
Of course, not everything always works out the way it should, but in looking over some possibilities my son considered, he may just have been put to more use than he actually has in the past two years.
As I said, this is just FYI.

I'm a big fan of this website, however the data (as all data) can sometimes be a little misleading.

Over the past two years, I've seen two opponents in particular do something worse than any of this stuff IMO. That is, bring back the Friday or Saturday starter, with ~100 pitches under his belt, as a Sunday closer. One of those schools shows up with a very good PAP score on here...actually outstanding. And a 0-0 Category IV and V starts.

I would far rather my son throw 125 pitches Friday night and have no chance of being used again on Sunday than throw 100 pitches Friday or Saturday and be asked to close on Sunday.

JBB,


And some of those pitchers have arm issues.

I have looked at these stats on a weekly and yearly basis for the past five years. I don't try to memorize anything, but some schools do have pitchers showing up on the list weekly during the season, and many other schools rarely or never have pitchers listed on there.

I do know that in two years of college pitching, including spring and summer baseball, my son has never thrown more than 95 pitches in an outing and has always had appropriate rest before his next appearance. I have never even had to think about saying anything to any of his coaches. In addition, he seemed to become much more intelligent with his off day activities than he previously had been.

it would be interesting to see ,high school-travel ball.even little league.in my opinion that's where the over use usually starts.it just shows up in college.
leave it to the game of baseball as king of stats.