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Brett Lawrie Loses It

AntzDadAntzDad1,000+ posts
Is this the same as the Bryce Harper thing? Was Brett Lawrie brought up too soon? Is he just a fiery competitor?

Brett Lawrie's helmet spike.

TORONTO- Brett Lawrie called it an "unlucky bounce." Major League Baseball is likely to call it a suspension. A furious Lawrie slammed his batting helmet to the ground after he took strike three and it struck plate umpire Bill Miller in the hip as the ninth inning turned nasty Tuesday night in Toronto's 4-3 loss to Tampa Bay.

"That was not my intention at all," Lawrie said.

"I've never, ever done anything to go at an umpire before in my life, and I didn't mean to tonight. I apologize for that.

"It's just my passion for the game," he said. "I wanted to help my teammates out as best I could. That's the pride I have in this game. I leave my emotions out on the field."
Last edited {1}
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EdgarFanEdgarFan500+ posts
After seeing the video, I am not sure he is being truthful about his intent. He definitely threw the helmet in the umpire's direction. If he didn't mean to hit him with it, he certainly had complete disregard for whether it would or wouldn't.

I think he gets 10 games, and after appeal it will be reduced to something like 5-7.

I also agree that the umpire could use some discipline, though I would hope that critique/discipline would come privately. Couldn't really see strike two in the clip, but strike three was definitely high (and borderline outside, as well, though it did tail back in). No excuse for Lawrie's behavior, though.
B bostonbulldogbaseball100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by HVbaseballDAD:
His reaction was over the top, but those 2 pitches were out of the strike zone and the umpire looked like he was deliberately calling them late to show him up. I don't blame him for getting tossed there, but there is no excuse for the helmet thing.

I didn't see the 2nd strike but the 3rd strike looked good.
I think when he started to run down to 1st base after the 2nd strike was called he was trying to show up the umpire.
Brett Lawrie needs to get over it. Hopefully he will get a severe punishment for his actions.
OnWabanaOnWabana100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
quote:
Originally posted by HVbaseballDAD:
His reaction was over the top, but those 2 pitches were out of the strike zone and the umpire looked like he was deliberately calling them late to show him up. I don't blame him for getting tossed there, but there is no excuse for the helmet thing.

I didn't see the 2nd strike but the 3rd strike looked good.
I think when he started to run down to 1st base after the 2nd strike was called he was trying to show up the umpire.
Brett Lawrie needs to get over it. Hopefully he will get a severe punishment for his actions.


I thought the strike 3 call was obviously up and out of the zone. Still agree that the helmet toss was way over the line but his outrage at the situation was understandable.

==========================
Last edited by OnWabana
N Ninthmanout10+ posts
If you’re going to throw something make sure it's in the opposite direction of any umpire.

The first pitch in question was way out of the strike zone, very obviously out of the strike zone, and like everybody else in the stadium and watching TV, Lawrie thought it was ball 4. The "Umpire" calls it strike 2 (either blind or undies in a bunch because Lawrie started to go to 1st before he called it).
Next pitch again way out of the strike zone and called strike 3. If the "Umpire" did it on purpose, because his undies were in a bunch, then he deserves part of the blame for the incident. If he really thought they were strikes (not likely) then he should be sent back to the minors for training (or retired). Lawrie deserves suspension because you can't let him get away with it.

I have very little respect for an "Umpire" that abuses his authority the way he did.
C calisportsfan100+ posts
The guy deserves to be suspended for a good long time. Regardless of strike or no strike, respect for the umpires is part of the game and that should be viewed by all as embarrassing to his team and the whole sport.
Temper tantrums aren't appropriate beyond what, 4? I hope he gets a solid 14 game suspension and that the guy who plays for him takes total advantage of his opportunity.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
The league has to protect umpires. Contact with an umpire is a no-no. Even accidental contact in a dispute. I don't know what the penalty will be, but it should be stiff. If the league shrugs it off, umpires could become targets.


I agree 100%


Ditto.
LB luv baseball5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Ninthmanout:
If you’re going to throw something make sure it's in the opposite direction of any umpire.

The first pitch in question was way out of the strike zone, very obviously out of the strike zone, and like everybody else in the stadium and watching TV, Lawrie thought it was ball 4. The "Umpire" calls it strike 2 (either blind or undies in a bunch because Lawrie started to go to 1st before he called it).
Next pitch again way out of the strike zone and called strike 3. If the "Umpire" did it on purpose, because his undies were in a bunch, then he deserves part of the blame for the incident. If he really thought they were strikes (not likely) then he should be sent back to the minors for training (or retired). Lawrie deserves suspension because you can't let him get away with it.

I have very little respect for an "Umpire" that abuses his authority the way he did.


Video didn't have the proceeding pitch but the 3rd strike was a borderline pitch. It had massive tailing movement. Lawrie gave up on a pitch that was clearly over the plate and at or near the lettters and got rung up. It happens a a dozen times everyday in MLB. Dopey reaction to an everyday call.
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
luv baseball,
This video has the strike two call viewed from behind the pitcher and from overhead.

This event has had lots of discussion on umpire boards. While most umpires decry Lawrie's actions, the great majority believe that the strike three call was a retaliatory call. The pitch was high compared to the strike zone normally called in higher levels of baseball.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
LB luv baseball5,000+ posts
3FingeredGlove,

Couldn't open video but I'll stipulate that the previous pitch was a bad call and concur that the 3rd strike was borderline and on the high side for MLB.

So if the call was retaliatory the Umpire should get his fine or take a hit to his grade and it might cost him playoff games as well. Nevertheless borderline ball/strike calls happen by the dozens every day in MLB and these guys just can't blow their stacks over it.
OnWabanaOnWabana100+ posts
This is an unrelated incident but I thought it was interesting that both the manager (Charlie Manuel) and the umpire (Bob Davidson) were both suspended for one game.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl...ey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Davidson was said to be suspended for "repeated violations of the Office of the Commissioner's standards for situation handling."

So my question is, have you ever heard of an umpire being suspended for poor calls? Not just extracurricular activities but poor performance during the game?
Last edited by OnWabana
LB luv baseball5,000+ posts
No I can't. I have seen on other websites that the way it works is that any disciplining goes on totally behind the scenes just so that umpires don't develop public reputations. Baseball never looked kindly on Ron Luciano back in the 80's. I believe they want the umpires to be as generic as possible which is why they got rid of the different sets uf umpires in each league and have the same unforms now. If you recall MLB took a strike over some of this stuff about 10 years ago or maybe a little further back.
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
Sorry about the link; I've fixed it.

Retaliatory calls have a long tradition, and are frequently referred to FUC calls, where the last two letters stand for "you, Charlie." It allows umpires to take an action that is less severe than ejecting, but still provides a message. The strike 3 pitch was ideal for that purpose, because it was close enough that it is plausible that the umpire just missed it.

However, the strike two call was pretty bad, so it may have not been the right time.
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
Sorry about the link; I've fixed it.

Retaliatory calls have a long tradition, and are frequently referred to FUC calls, where the last two letters stand for "you, Charlie." It allows umpires to take an action that is less severe than ejecting, but still provides a message. The strike 3 pitch was ideal for that purpose, because it was close enough that it is plausible that the umpire just missed it.

However, the strike two call was pretty bad, so it may have not been the right time.


Those have been frowned upon since the late '90s...I'm not going to say they have been totally removed, but the level of acceptance is lower for all parties involved (participants, umpires, and league personnel.) I'm young enough where I know that I never felt comfortable to do one, due to the changing tides, and never have.

That being said, you do not do one in the ninth inning of a one-run game.

I'm not going to discount the above premise, but I do have another possible explanation for those two calls--he may have simply gotten the yips. Speaking from experience and observation, sometimes after an umpire has a miss, he immediately follows it with another one, because he has gotten into his own head.
Last edited by Matt13
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
Sorry about the link; I've fixed it.

Retaliatory calls have a long tradition, and are frequently referred to FUC calls, where the last two letters stand for "you, Charlie."


In the pros they are called FYC's: F### You Calls.

In their heyday, close had nothing to do with it. In fact, the more obvious the better. Called strikes six inches off the pate and low were the normal. That third strike was too close. In fact, all pitch tracking I've viewed have the bottom of the ball touching the top of the strike zone.
Last edited by Jimmy03
L liner100+ posts
Being a biased jays fan, I think the suspension was warranted and fair. It;s just baseball - the ump blew it and so did lawrie, and he'll learn a lesson.

I get a huge kick out of watching him in the dugout and on the field. He rubbed a few traditionalists the wrong way when he broke in. But his energy, enthusiasm and drive remind me of a young pete rose. Passion and youth are an exciting combination.

he definitely keeps the everyone in the game - smiles all around.

we just got a boxer puppy last year - talk about energy; we should have called hin Lawrie.
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