Bring Your Wallet

@RJM posted:

The sad thing is far too many black kids see football and basketball as the way out of poverty. The best way out is education whether it’s college or a trade. Most college football and basketball players don’t receive the opportunity to earn a living in their sport. A person who makes education the does does.

Regarding getting an education...

The 3rd string free safety in football has a better shot at more scholarships money than the starting second basemen. That's why lower income kids choose football over baseball. They can actually get scholarships money with sports other than baseball.

I have two P5 athletes and I can say unequivocally it was less expensive for the basketball player all the way through. Less gear to start with and the better she got the less we paid until she was on a fully funded team on the Nike/EYBL circuit. They even covered all travel costs. Even though James’s baseball travel team fees were covered by the summer of his senior year, his travel to tournaments was not nor was his travel to ECP, Area Code or the PG/BF All-American games. That summer was expensive as he#%.  Add to that, big sister makes money in college. Room, board, incidentals, etc are paid PLUS she gets a cost of living stipend. If James had gone to college for baseball, between athletic and academic he would have been essentially covered, but certainly not made money (well, now maybe he would have with the NIL).

If James hadn’t loved baseball as much as he did or If we hadn’t been able/willing to pay for baseball and some college costs (and believe me, some years huge sacrifices were made for all of our kids), he would most likely be playing on a D1 basketball team right now.

For the record, plenty of black parents (ourselves included) preach academics. I went to college on a full academic ride plus National Merit money and lived the sweet life. However, if you end up with a D1 baseball/basketball/football player on your hands, baseball is, by far, the one with the worst short term ROI. I would completely understand a family struggling to make ends meet pushing their kid toward football or basketball and from baseball or any other non-head count sport.

@RJM posted:

The sad thing is far too many black kids see football and basketball as the way out of poverty. The best way out is education whether it’s college or a trade. Most college football and basketball players don’t receive the opportunity to earn a living in their sport. A person who makes education the does does.

Fwiw and please don’t take this the wrong way: I don’t see it as a white/black thing. It’s a poor/rich thing. Plenty of white kids are born on the wrong side of the tracks as well. The way in which you are raised plays a large part in the choices you make. Show me your friends and I’ll show you your future holds a lot of weight. It really takes a special kind of person to change after being born into generational poverty.  

I can 100% see where you guys are coming from on the college scholarship POV, but the kids I know just think football and basketball are more fun or they are getting peer pressure from their community/friends. Baseball is just something they do now when the other sports aren't in season.

There is that @TerribleBPthrower. And I agree @ReluctantO'sFan. Finally, talking to the boy about all this…the minor league system doesn’t help that much either. He said “it’s the only major sport where you have to make the team twice [draft and then breaking into a major league roster].”

I hope we can all consider HSBBW to be one of those indispensable expenses, something that seems free, but isn't:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...93#73528371801134793

@PTWood posted:

I have two P5 athletes and I can say unequivocally it was less expensive for the basketball player all the way through. Less gear to start with and the better she got the less we paid until she was on a fully funded team on the Nike/EYBL circuit. They even covered all travel costs. Even though James’s baseball travel team fees were covered by the summer of his senior year, his travel to tournaments was not nor was his travel to ECP, Area Code or the PG/BF All-American games. That summer was expensive as he#%.  Add to that, big sister makes money in college. Room, board, incidentals, etc are paid PLUS she gets a cost of living stipend. If James had gone to college, between athletic and academic he would have been essentially covered, but certainly not made money (well, now maybe he would have with the NIL).

If James hadn’t loved baseball as much as he did or If we hadn’t been able/willing to pay for baseball and some college costs (and believe me, some years huge sacrifices were made for all of our kids), he would most likely be playing on a D1 basketball team right now.

For the record, plenty of black parents (ourselves included) preach academics. I went to college on a full academic ride plus National Merit money and lived the sweet life. However, if you end up with a D1 baseball/basketball/football player on your hands, baseball is, by far, the one with the worst short term ROI. I would completely understand a family struggling to make ends meet pushing their kid toward football or basketball and from baseball or any other non-head count sport.

My son is 6’2”. He’s very open had he been 6’6” basketball would have been the focus. Both kids (including his sister) said I was more fun to play basketball for than baseball. They said I’m passionate coaching basketball. I’m like a stone faced poker player coaching baseball/softball. I told them the emotions in the sports are different. Basketball is more “in the moment” coaching than baseball/softball.

While my daughter liked basketball more she was smoother and better at softball a lot longer. Growing from 5’2” to 5’10” over sixteen months in middle school changed a lot about basketball.

@ReluctantO'sFan posted:

Fwiw and please don’t take this the wrong way: I don’t see it as a white/black thing. It’s a poor/rich thing. Plenty of white kids are born on the wrong side of the tracks as well. The way in which you are raised plays a large part in the choices you make. Show me your friends and I’ll show you your future holds a lot of weight. It really takes a special kind of person to change after being born into generational poverty.  

There’s a lot more involved than socio-economic background. It’s more about motivation and influences.

@anotherparent, thank you for the reminder. DONE!

@PTWood posted:

I have two P5 athletes and I can say unequivocally it was less expensive for the basketball player all the way through. Less gear to start with and the better she got the less we paid until she was on a fully funded team on the Nike/EYBL circuit. They even covered all travel costs. Even though James’s baseball travel team fees were covered by the summer of his senior year, his travel to tournaments was not nor was his travel to ECP, Area Code or the PG/BF All-American games. That summer was expensive as he#%.  Add to that, big sister makes money in college. Room, board, incidentals, etc are paid PLUS she gets a cost of living stipend. If James had gone to college, between athletic and academic he would have been essentially covered, but certainly not made money (well, now maybe he would have with the NIL).

If James hadn’t loved baseball as much as he did or If we hadn’t been able/willing to pay for baseball and some college costs (and believe me, some years huge sacrifices were made for all of our kids), he would most likely be playing on a D1 basketball team right now.

For the record, plenty of black parents (ourselves included) preach academics. I went to college on a full academic ride plus National Merit money and lived the sweet life. However, if you end up with a D1 baseball/basketball/football player on your hands, baseball is, by far, the one with the worst short term ROI. I would completely understand a family struggling to make ends meet pushing their kid toward football or basketball and from baseball or any other non-head count sport.

the problem here IMO it seems you and your family are the exceptions not the rule. It great how successful you have been and your kids obviously have taken root to that, good things happen. All you need to do is look at any data on macro level it tells a different story.

@old_school I am here to tell you, we all want the same things for our kids and our families. Period. But I can't do this.

I am not going to have a conversation about race in pithy quotes and sound bites on HSBBWebor anywhere else for that matter. I should have never responded to RJM in the first place.

If you would like to have a conversation about some of the macro and historical issues that have gotten us here (while still recognizing the importance of personal responsibility and choices in the present day--I actually had this full conversation with my son last night packing to send him off to AZ today), we can do it off line.

@PTWood posted:

@old_school I am here to tell you, we all want the same things for our kids and our families. Period. But I can't do this.

I am not going to have a conversation about race in pithy quotes and sound bites on HSBBWebor anywhere else for that matter. I should have never responded to RJM in the first place.

If you would like to have a conversation about some of the macro and historical issues that have gotten us here (while still recognizing the importance of personal responsibility and choices in the present day--I actually had this full conversation with my son last night packing to send him off to AZ today), we can do it off line.

Your first sentence is why I believe it’s more about economics and exposure/influence than race. My experience is a middle class black person has the same motivations as a middle class white person. I have friends who didn’t like where they were growing up. They made every attempt to elevate themselves. There were people and exposures that motivated them. An impoverished person who doesn’t make the attempt to solve their situation has the same lack of motivation regardless of race.

I have to say I never expected baseball to be as expensive as it is for us. I generally figure on spending north of 10k per summer. Just the fees for our summer travel team are 6k (3k each) for my twins. It doesn't take long with hotels and food to top 10k. I plan for it every year and set the money aside as I know the bill is coming. Uniforms ($700) and equipment are on top of all of that. I buy bats, gloves, baseballs and cleats in November which saves some, but it's still not cheap. Not complaining at all as summer ball tournaments are our vacations. Speaking of which, we'll be traveling to Cincinnati this summer for a tournament and I need to know of a really nice, safe place to stay. Keep in mind we are from rural Southwest Mo and don't spend a lot of time in big metro areas. And I know some of you are picturing Beverly Hillbillies, and ya know I am ok with that but that ain't exactly what we look like............... except maybe during deer season or bass fishing. Not trying to offend folks about the deer hunting comment, but we shoot em and eat em. We don't eat the bass, we put them back to grow bigger! Oh shoot, now I'm starting to sound like Ted Nugent. Good gravy I'm just digging a deeper hole ain't I?  I'm also  sounding more and more like Jed Clampett.

And now, back to your regular scheduled programming!

Are you playing in a Cincy Flames tournament?  Our teams usually stayed in the Blue Ash area, which is nice, and had easy highway access to game locations from northern Kentucky to Dayton.  There were, I think, several hotels on the tournament list there.  Newport, KY also has hotels and is a nice area.

Related to that, while I'm sympathetic to those who don't stay in the official hotels, I'd just note that most of these tournaments require a certain number of team members to stay in their hotels. One year I was the team hotel coordinator, and I did get called by some tournaments asking where all our players were staying.  So if you are saving money by staying elsewhere, others on your team are having to pay the tournament rate.  I didn't like it, seemed like a money grab to me, and it definitely made things more expensive.  On the other hand, some tournaments did get better group rates than an individual could get.

@Triple J, I find it incredulous that you think you need to be concerned about offending someone because you made a comment about deer hunting. I’m not even a big hunter but it does serve a necessary purpose. And who cares if someone doesn’t like what you said?!? The world isn’t a popularity contest that is governed by likes and follows - no matter how much millennials want it to be

@Francis7 posted:

Regarding getting an education...

The 3rd string free safety in football has a better shot at more scholarships money than the starting second basemen. That's why lower income kids choose football over baseball. They can actually get scholarships money with sports other than baseball.

That's not why. Kids don't get signed up for sports at a young age for a scholarship. Kids don't go out for the football team in HS because baseball only has 11.7. I didn't even know baseball only had 11.7 until I came here.

It's easier to be good at football than it is baseball. You can take a kid who has never stepped on a football field in as a freshman and make him a contributor by the time he finishes HS. Same can't be said for baseball. Little League doesn't cut it if you want to be halfway decent at the sport. Pop Warner is all most kids do until they get to HS.

It's also easier to get playing time in football. There are 22 starters and probably 40ish who enter the game at some point. In a HS baseball game - maybe 11 get in depending on pitching changes.

Which sport would you do - the one the requires less effort and rewards better or the one that requires more effort with a lower guarantee for success?

Baseball is harder than most sports.

@adbono posted:

@Triple J, I find it incredulous that you think you need to be concerned about offending someone because you made a comment about deer hunting. I’m not even a big hunter but it does serve a necessary purpose. And who cares if someone doesn’t like what you said?!? The world isn’t a popularity contest that is governed by likes and follows - no matter how much millennials want it to be

Is it legal? If so, no one has the right to be offended. Polite disagreement is acceptable.

I once had someone go off at me at a grocery store when I made a negative comment about the discontinuation of plastic bags. The person asked me if I was aware lobsters get caught up in plastic bags and die.

First, while I’m sure it happens it’s not a normal circumstance. But I couldn’t help but replay, “Damn! Before I can boil their brains.”

Tossing a live lobster in boiling water is a normal function. It’s the most common way to cook a lobster. Want to slow torture a lobster? Bake it. Watching a person in Maine go through an anti eating lobster tirade was rather amusing.

I don’t hunt or fish. From my view legally killing animals and catching fish is fine as long as people intend to eat the kill/catch.

This isn’t aimed at anyone. It’s a general statement from observations made while two kids went through the journey.

It’s fine for people to spend money they have for extra expenses. If they have it. What I hate to see is people spend thousands of dollars on training each year for whatever sport and not save for college. You would be surprised how many people don’t know baseball doesn’t give a roster full of free rides until their kids hit high school.

Even with sports that give full rides, for 99.9+% of kids who start playing as preteens they won’t know if they have full ride potential until high school. Waiting until high school to start saving for college is a very bad idea.

I also saw too many parents attempt to purchase talent. Talent can’t be purchased. Existing talent and potential can be refined.

I remember being on the patio with a bunch of dads at a friend’s kid’s Bar Mitvah. They were all talking about the agility training their kids were taking at twelve and thirteen. I had to bit down on my beer mug to keep from laughing. Then, the little voice in my head told me not to ask, “Anyone see a difference?”

None of the kids of these dads ended up playing high school varsity. Two were non impact players in their high school varsity sports. I waited until post puberty to get my son involved with FASST (fitness, agility, strength, speed training). I waited until I was developing potential talent.

As for saving for college one of the benefits of having your kids at 33 and 38 is the ability to save from the time they’re born. A lot of the money didn’t get spent due to athletic and academic scholarships.

@adbono posted:

@Triple J, I find it incredulous that you think you need to be concerned about offending someone because you made a comment about deer hunting. I’m not even a big hunter but it does serve a necessary purpose. And who cares if someone doesn’t like what you said?!? The world isn’t a popularity contest that is governed by likes and follows - no matter how much millennials want it to be

Been hunting since I was 16. Not looking for approval, just being a little facetious adbono. At my age I am kind of beyond worrying about approval except from God above.

Now back to the Crowder game. They are smokin the Seminole State OK boys. Kinda like this JUCO ball!!

@PABaseball posted:

That's not why. Kids don't get signed up for sports at a young age for a scholarship. Kids don't go out for the football team in HS because baseball only has 11.7. I didn't even know baseball only had 11.7 until I came here.

It's easier to be good at football than it is baseball. You can take a kid who has never stepped on a football field in as a freshman and make him a contributor by the time he finishes HS. Same can't be said for baseball. Little League doesn't cut it if you want to be halfway decent at the sport. Pop Warner is all most kids do until they get to HS.

It's also easier to get playing time in football. There are 22 starters and probably 40ish who enter the game at some point. In a HS baseball game - maybe 11 get in depending on pitching changes.

Which sport would you do - the one the requires less effort and rewards better or the one that requires more effort with a lower guarantee for success?

Baseball is harder than most sports.

One of my son’s high school friends didn’t play football until high school. He just finished his fifth season as an NFL edge pass rusher.

Before high school basketball he had trouble not traveling every time he touched the ball.  He became all state in both sports. This wouldn’t happen in baseball. Growing to 6’7” helped.

@Triple J posted:

Been hunting since I was 16. Not looking for approval, just being a little facetious adbono. At my age I am kind of beyond worrying about approval except from God above.

Now back to the Crowder game. They are smokin the Seminole State OK boys. Kinda like this JUCO ball!!

One of the great things about getting older is the thought process … “What the hell! I’ll say it and see how people react.”

I left the corporate world at 29. But we did build a company to 250 employees. We were like family. But the more the company grew the less it was like close family.

If I was in the corporate world today and told I had to take some kind of “woke” training I would find it hard not to toss the manual in the air and say, “F it. I’m outta here” as I headed for the door.

@anotherparent posted:

Are you playing in a Cincy Flames tournament?  Our teams usually stayed in the Blue Ash area, which is nice, and had easy highway access to game locations from northern Kentucky to Dayton.  There were, I think, several hotels on the tournament list there.  Newport, KY also has hotels and is a nice area.

Related to that, while I'm sympathetic to those who don't stay in the official hotels, I'd just note that most of these tournaments require a certain number of team members to stay in their hotels. One year I was the team hotel coordinator, and I did get called by some tournaments asking where all our players were staying.  So if you are saving money by staying elsewhere, others on your team are having to pay the tournament rate.  I didn't like it, seemed like a money grab to me, and it definitely made things more expensive.  On the other hand, some tournaments did get better group rates than an individual could get.

We are playing the 17u National Tournament at Xavier. I am hoping it will be a fun 4 day tournament. We have never played there so we will see some new country. Thanks for recommendations on where to stay. We will try and find something there. Our travel team has not provided a designated team hotel so I am going to book now. I have been left with some poor places to stay in the past when I didn't book early.

@anotherparent posted:

Are you playing in a Cincy Flames tournament?  Our teams usually stayed in the Blue Ash area, which is nice, and had easy highway access to game locations from northern Kentucky to Dayton.  There were, I think, several hotels on the tournament list there.  Newport, KY also has hotels and is a nice area.

Related to that, while I'm sympathetic to those who don't stay in the official hotels, I'd just note that most of these tournaments require a certain number of team members to stay in their hotels. One year I was the team hotel coordinator, and I did get called by some tournaments asking where all our players were staying.  So if you are saving money by staying elsewhere, others on your team are having to pay the tournament rate.  I didn't like it, seemed like a money grab to me, and it definitely made things more expensive.  On the other hand, some tournaments did get better group rates than an individual could get.

That was never a problem with most of the teams we played on.  Some of the parents were willing to pay $150 plus per night and then complain about how much baseball cost.  I've found as a coach that most tournaments ultimately don't care and if you complain about their hotel costs they won't push the issue.  If they give you a better rate, which they should since you are guaranteeing X number of rooms then I never minded staying in their hotels.  Normally if it was less than 2 hours we drove back and forth and traded out as to who was going each day.

@Triple J posted:

We are playing the 17u National Tournament at Xavier. I am hoping it will be a fun 4 day tournament. We have never played there so we will see some new country. Thanks for recommendations on where to stay. We will try and find something there. Our travel team has not provided a designated team hotel so I am going to book now. I have been left with some poor places to stay in the past when I didn't book early.

Opinion/advice alert!

There are a bunch of great schools to visit with a variety of college environments within an hour of Cincinnati. U of Cincinnati (city school with maybe 15 min from X with LOTS of students), Miami of Ohio (about 50 min away medium sized school in a rural college town with a beautiful campus and is considered a "Public Ivy"). Dayton Ohio has (about 50 min away) has Wright State (the best baseball school in the area) and U of Dayton, also Northern Kentucky U is maybe 15 min away across the river.

@adbono posted:

@Triple J, I find it incredulous that you think you need to be concerned about offending someone because you made a comment about deer hunting. I’m not even a big hunter but it does serve a necessary purpose. And who cares if someone doesn’t like what you said?!? The world isn’t a popularity contest that is governed by likes and follows - no matter how much millennials want it to be

@adobo, you are my favorite!
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

@Triple J posted:

We are playing the 17u National Tournament at Xavier. I am hoping it will be a fun 4 day tournament. We have never played there so we will see some new country. Thanks for recommendations on where to stay. We will try and find something there. Our travel team has not provided a designated team hotel so I am going to book now. I have been left with some poor places to stay in the past when I didn't book early.

Be careful of surrounding neighborhoods, Xavier and UC, not the safest areas, although both campuses are beautiful.

@RoadRunner posted:

@adobo, you are my favorite!
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

I’m not for everyone but thank you !

@PitchingFan posted:

That was never a problem with most of the teams we played on.  Some of the parents were willing to pay $150 plus per night and then complain about how much baseball cost.  I've found as a coach that most tournaments ultimately don't care and if you complain about their hotel costs they won't push the issue.  If they give you a better rate, which they should since you are guaranteeing X number of rooms then I never minded staying in their hotels.  Normally if it was less than 2 hours we drove back and forth and traded out as to who was going each day.

Cincy Flames tournaments and hotels:  our experience has been this:  you are mandated to stay in the tournament affiliated hotels, using their code/link. Those rooms are MORE expensive than if booked through other means. The tournament director is pretty ruthless about it. He/his agents have been known to call hotels and verify who is staying there. You may become ineligible to play if it is discovered that you did not book through the tournament. Tournament directors often times get a significant cut from the hotel.

We attempted a budget hotel last summer for the PG World Series. If I try that again I’ll be on here asking for advice on divorce lawyers.

Going forward we’ll probably stick with Homewood Suites. Pretty clean, comfortable beds, big rooms with a kitchen, and dog friendly.

Yep, and called me to go through our roster person by person, to ask where everyone was staying.  I couldn't believe it.  Although, at that time, the tournament rate was better than you could get online.  But, TripleJ is going to a different organization's tournament, I don't know what their policy is.

At another tournament, they called me because they thought all our team had cancelled our official hotels.  Read through the roster, it was a different team.  I don't know what they were going to do to the team that did that.

Every year for 17 years of Area Code games and tryouts, I organize hotels in California, USA, and for the Goodwill Series events in Australia, Japan, Korea and China for our players, Coaches and parents. Never a mark up, always a group rate passed to the families and pro scouts.

Bob

@Consultant posted:

Every year for 17 years of Area Code games and tryouts, I organize hotels in California, USA, and for the Goodwill Series events in Australia, Japan, Korea and China for our players, Coaches and parents. Never a mark up, always a group rate passed to the families and pro scouts.

Bob

That would be a reference to the good old days. I’m afraid the PG organization is not so benevolent. Everything related to their events charges a premium and kicks back money to PG. All in the name of “we do it for the kids.”  

@Consultant posted:

Every year for 17 years of Area Code games and tryouts, I organize hotels in California, USA, and for the Goodwill Series events in Australia, Japan, Korea and China for our players, Coaches and parents. Never a mark up, always a group rate passed to the families and pro scouts.

Bob

That’s because you care more about the game and players than you do about making a buck!

@anotherparent posted:

Yep, and called me to go through our roster person by person, to ask where everyone was staying.  I couldn't believe it.  Although, at that time, the tournament rate was better than you could get online.  But, TripleJ is going to a different organization's tournament, I don't know what their policy is.

At another tournament, they called me because they thought all our team had cancelled our official hotels.  Read through the roster, it was a different team.  I don't know what they were going to do to the team that did that.

My guess is that team would lose eligibility to play and lose their entry fee. Was it Jay that called?

My son is playing in college and he never played travel ball. He felt it was too many weekends of endless driving and it created baseball burnout. He saved me a fortune

@RoadRunner posted:

My guess is that team would lose eligibility to play and lose their entry fee. Was it Jay that called?

Oh, I have no idea, it was years ago.  But yes, I think they threatened our eligibility.

True confession: when I started this thread, I did think to myself for a minute: someone will probably quickly kill this one with "baseball is expensive and this has been discussed and already beaten to death." And this one is going nowhere...but what the heck...let's see.

Boy was I wrong.

@RoadRunner posted:

Cincy Flames tournaments and hotels:  our experience has been this:  you are mandated to stay in the tournament affiliated hotels, using their code/link. Those rooms are MORE expensive than if booked through other means. The tournament director is pretty ruthless about it. He/his agents have been known to call hotels and verify who is staying there. You may become ineligible to play if it is discovered that you did not book through the tournament. Tournament directors often times get a significant cut from the hotel.

This is true. My son-in-law is GM at a hotel that routinely books blocks of rooms for tournaments/games (baseball only now, but used to do basketball and football until the following happened).

Wife and I were visiting (we're out of state) and they had some type of youth football tournament going on in the area that rooms were blocked at his hotel. He told me they were around $20 markup because of the director block. He got a phone call from his front desk early evening and she had a lobby full of irate parents. Most booked months earlier through the tournament. There was one parent that booked directly last minute at a lower rate. They wanted him to refund directly and give them all the price of the last minute parent. He told the front desk he couldn't, that the director had blocked the rooms at a specific price, that their phone calls should be directed to him. They wouldn't leave the lobby, so I rode with him to the hotel to try straighten it out. It was a madhouse. He explained everything to them, told them there was nothing he could do about it, and to please leave the lobby and take it up with the director. After about 15 minutes, he had to call the police because some were getting physically aggressive. Not a good situation. They just didn't understand he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

He made the decision to not block anything from a certain organization and director, who did both basketball and football. Baseball is a totally different org and director and there is rarely an issue.

The reason I post this is to inform. If someone gets a lower rate at the last minute and outside of the block, it's not the hotel's baby. Don't harass the hotel employees, they have zero to do with it, it's misplaced anger, and quite frankly ignorant if you can't rationally understand how the blocks work. If you have to be angry with someone, talk to the director who blocked the rooms at a specific price. It's done and it's yours at the price you agreed upon.

We never played there except one time when we were 9.  Never went back.  That is why most southern teams will not go north.  No gain.  You know how to handle that situation.  Tell him you won't come back.  I hear the people who say PG forces it but I never found that to be the case.  They say they do but never actually had them check on it.  Plus as I said we always had enough that wanted to stay at those motels so it was not a problem.  Many thought it was easier to deal with the tournament motels than it was to make their own.

Thank you for your kind words. IT reminded me of  '"ultimate" in Hotel room rental. Our 16 year old Santa Rosa Team enter the AAU National Tournament in St Louis, after our victory, I drove our rental van north to Waukegan, Il for the Continental World Series. Our 1st hotel was in a "bad" area and I inspected the Sheraton {no rooms} the favorite team from Cincinnati had reserved their rooms. [Pete Rose Jr and his mother Karolyn were members of this team].

Ask for the GM, she repeated "no rooms" but told me a story about a snowstorm on the OHIO turnpike. They rent their meeting rooms. IMMEDIATELY i call a bed rental company and ordered 14 rollaways. We now had our rooms at the Sheraton for cost of two meeting rooms.

After winning this tournament Karolyn wanted to form the "combination" of the two teams and travel west to California and "barnstorm". Great idea, however "cooler" heads prevailed. "It would have been a classic travel team"!!

Bob