Bringing in Juco players at semester to D1's

14.5.4.1.1 Baseball and Basketball—Midyear Enrollee. In baseball and basketball, a qualifier who
satisfies the provisions of Bylaw 14.5.4.1, but initially enrolls at the certifying institution as a full-time student after the conclusion of the institution’s first term of the academic year, shall not be eligible for competition until the ensuing academic year.

15.5.4.1 is the rule which normally allows JC transfers to compete immediately.

The key word is compete. The JC transfer player player can be on the 35 man roster, and actually needs to be in order to take part in organized practice. But he won't be eligible to play in games.

If he's on scholarship, then "Yes", he needs to be counted towards the 35 man roster, but if not on scholarship, he doesn't have to be on the 35 man roster to practice with team, at least until the season starts.

Many schools have 40+ kids on team in the Fall and until they cut down for the season-opening roster, which is when the 35 man limit kicks in.

Well, this juco transfer is on the roster and we will find out soon if he is playing. I'll let ya'll know what happens when the season starts.

diamond darling,

Are you sure that the player wasn't registered full-time last fall at the D1? It isn't necessarily obvious.

Here's a related example which may not apply to the situation you refer to, but it does show that things aren't always what they seem. Recently a long-time poster here mentioned that his son was concerned about playing time this sophomore spring at his D1, and the student "transferred" to a local JC. But he continues to take a full load at the D1!

I assume (but don't know) that a player could take the required 12 hours at the JC (needed in order to play) by enrolling in courses he has already studied and can pass easily, while putting most of his effort into the D1 courses. Perhaps he can take on-line courses to minimize class-time at the JC. He doesn't need to take hard courses, or even ones that offer actual progress toward a degree, because he is making progress at the D1, and wouldn't necessarily need the JC courses.

If the player ends up rejoining his original D1 school's team, he would be immediately eligible for competition, since he clearly has met the residence requirement at the D1.

A player pursuing this strategy starting as a freshman might decide to continue to practice with the JC in the following fall--he doesn't need to take a full load, at least in California--and decide at semester break whether he can contribute on the D1 team.

This Texas D1 school was down to 2 catchers at Christmas. The D1 brought in an out-of-state, juco catcher to get their catcher count up to 3. This juco catcher was not on the fall roster.

quote:

Originally posted by diamond darling:
This Texas D1 school was down to 2 catchers at Christmas. The D1 brought in an out-of-state, juco catcher to get their catcher count up to 3. This juco catcher was not on the fall roster.

This would mean to me that the catcher may be on the roster but needs to sit out a year.
This would make sense, someone has to catch pens and warm up the pitchers.

Under the right circumstances a spring JC transfer can be eligable to play in the spring.

The spring transfer could be a recruited player that needed to attend the JC in the fall to graduate in order to eligable. Or he could be a qualifier. Neither is required to have a year residency to play.

CollegeParent,
Are you sure? Effective 8/1/08, as part of the various "new rules", the D1 rules were tightened up considerably. Some of the new provisions affect academic progress and other affect transfer students.

I quoted the new rule above which applies to 2-4 transfers. However, the general rule which applies to all transfers is 14.5.1 "....In baseball and basketball, a transfer student-athlete who satisfies the applicable transfer requirements or qualifies for an exception as set forth in this section, but initially enrolls as a full-time student after the first term of the academic year shall not be eligible for competition until the ensuing academic year."
The rules 14.5.4.1.1, 14.5.4.2.3, 14.5.5.2, and 14.5.6.2 repeat this rule in the various 2-4, 4-4, and 4-2-4 transfer sections.

Academic progress rules have a similar philosophy.
14.01.2.1.1 Additional Application—Baseball. In baseball, a student-athlete who fails to meet the
requirements of good academic standing at the beginning of an institution’s fall term shall not be eligible for competition during the remainder of the academic year.

Rules 14.4.3.1.3.1, 14.4.3.1.4.1, 14.4.3.1.5, 14.4.3.2.3.1, and 14.4.3.3.1.2.1 also show that a baseball player can't "cure" any academic issues in the fall semester..

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/TransferGui...90a-e3fb5a76fd5b.pdf

See page 15.

From page 15: [After it lists a set of requirements]
If Yes to all, ....You can play right away during the first year after you transfer*

That trailing asterisk is important!

Here's the note associated with the asterisk: * Additional progress-toward-degree rules from the NCAA, the conference or the school may affect whether you can play.

The laundry list of rules mentioned a couple of posts up were all put into place with the justification that it would improve progress toward degree, and those rules do stop (usually) a mid-year transfer from competing.

Page 14 also says in response to the question-heading "When can you play?"
"...the specific rules that apply to you depend on:
......
Which sport you play (for instance, if you play baseball, basketball, football and ice hockey additional rules may apply);"

Maybe I'll have to start carefully reading posts before I respond It seems a little odd the NCAA would have the midterm limitation only on basketball and baseball players, however I am sure in thier infinate wisdom their is some benefit to the schools or themselves.

Thus, I guess the only way for a kid to show up on the spring roster and not the fall roster is to be cut in the fall and then be asked back onto the team in the spring as injuries or transfers occur in December.

quote:

only way for a kid to show up on the spring roster and not the fall roster

Well, typically a player who will be eligible to compete in the spring will have been listed on the Internet on the fall roster, but that's not necessary. The key item is that the player has been enrolled full-time in the fall. In fact, some colleges don't post a fall roster, and additionally they aren't required to post a spring roster. Almost everyone does though.

Anyway, a player can be on the spring roster, even if he transferred in at midyear. He just can't compete.

By the way, the rosters we see on the Internet aren't the official ones. In the fall, colleges have to submit a squad list to the NCAA, and that list must include anybody who paracticed for more than two weeks. One use of this list is for drug testing. I suppose that squad list contains more names than show up on the posted fall rosters.

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Don't want to hijack the thread...but will back up the "Dual college" JC/DI enrollment scenerio in CA...It's hard academically, but it's done.

44
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This is so confusing! That's why I asked you all the experts. This kid was not enrolled at this D1 college in the fall. He was recruited from a juco from another state. I guess we will see if he plays this weekend. I'll let ya'll know.

Darling,

After reading this thread over and over, you read my mind. winks.

Just wait and see if he actually steps foot on the field. THEN, we can all go fishing again about the eligibility issue.

(My money is on 3fingered!)

I'm backing TPM-- he'll be in the bullpen.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
I'm backing TPM-- he'll be in the bullpen.

TY 3FG, I consider that a compliment.

But not too hard to figure out. The player has to sit out a year but can still practice and get instruction, the staff needs another catcher to help with the work load. Perfect situation for everyone involved.

Who needs those NCAA rules to figure that one out.

Here is the update from the first 6 games -- the mid-semester, juco transfer is on the spring roster, but hasn't played any. I'll keep watching and continue to update you all.

New update as of March 18th. Mid-semester, juco transfer has not played so far this season. I'll continue to keep watching and keep ya'll informed.

I think it's obvious, he can't and won't play, but spending his time in the bull pen. Gives him a jump start (knowing the team game plan) for next season.