Build the Batting Order

Who can play? Or pretend! The Coach is responsible , easy interview each player, why, when, what, where and how?

1 - sounds like a classic leadoff guy

3 - second leadoff/move a guy over

7 - based on what you've written probably the best all-around hitter on team, hope to get him to the plate with runners on to hit RBIs

4 - tons of power, another guy you hope makes contact with runners on

2 - the other power bat

8 - best average and OBP of the guys who are left

5, 6, 9 - ditto above

1  Though leading off as a guy with no varsity experience would be tough

8  Assuming he can get a bunt down if needed?

7  This was my kid in HS.  Led team in Avg, HR's, RBI's & Hits.  Needed him to bat as many times as possible

4  Power guy

3  Either leading off second inning or getting AB's with runners on

5  Don't make outs....get on base somehow

2  Young kid....needs to get some AB's

6 (or 9)....depending on who seems to have shown up that day lol

Batting order is very simple. Get your best hitters the most plate appearances as possible and limit, as much as possible, the plate appearance for the easy outs.

That said, you don't want to stack the easy outs because then you are giving the other team a free inning when they come up.

@Francis7 posted:

Batting order is very simple. Get your best hitters the most plate appearances as possible and limit, as much as possible, the plate appearance for the easy outs.

That said, you don't want to stack the easy outs because then you are giving the other team a free inning when they come up.

Kind of agree, but there is no one way to write the order. It really depends on the team.  I always liked mixing speed - speed - power. Stats in baseball can be very misleading at times, and I never like the idea of giving an opposing pitcher an easy inning or two or three depending on how many your batting. This happens a lot when you stack a bunch of bad hitters at the bottom. Or by the time the top rolls around again you have 2 outs. (Deep well struck flyball is an out versus a sacfly)

With that mentioned, the best line-up that I've ever seen had a kid in the 5 hole that was clutch. I believe he really made the 3 hole and 4 hole hitters even better than they already were. They knew the 5 hole kid was money, and could just mentally relax and have fun at the plate. jm2c   

Remember there 10 ways for a runner to score from 3rd base with less than 2 outs.

When we traveled Internationally with our American HS teams, I selected 5 LH hitters. If the opposition did not have Lhp then I would "stack" one to five.  The first two hitters should hit to right field to move the lead off hitter who have a .500 on base % to 3rd base.

#9 hitter is second "lead off" hitter and I would alternate #9 with #1 or #2.

Actually over a # of games #6 hitter will have a "greatest" number of runners on base when they hit.

Bob

@ReluctantO'sFan posted:

This happens a lot when you stack a bunch of bad hitters at the bottom.  

Unless you have 9 dudes that rake, I think everybody who has ever put a lineup together has wrestled with stacking your weaker hitters at the bottom of the order vs. scattering them throughout the lineup. In my experience you can't hide your weaker batters. What almost always happens is you end up with 2 outs and runners on base when one of them comes up to the plate and ends the inning.

If you're trying to win games, you're almost always better off stacking your outs at the bottom of the lineup and playing for the big innings. And if 1 or 2 guys on the bottom of the order manage to get on base and you turn the lineup over, big innings become huge innings.

Batting order barely matters, it is much more important who is batting than at which position they are batting.

There are lineup analysis tools and the difference between the worst and best lineup with the same guys like like 0.3 runs per game or so. Over 162 games that is significant but in HS ball not so much, especially since very few lineups are like really terrible as long you are batting the worst guys at the bottom (less at bats) so really the difference in reality is smaller.

So if a line up has 4 good guys, 2 mediocre ones and 3 bad ones as long the 3 bad ones are batting 7,8,9 the rest barely matters.

There are debates like batting the best guy second vs third but we are talking tiny  fractions of a run per game here.

So if you have the mentioned 4 good, 2 so so and 3 bad ones bat the 4 good ones 1-4 in any order, 2 so so ones 5 and 6 and the bad ones 7-9 in any order and your lineup will be fine.

In time limited games like travel ball or tournaments it can be different though.

The thing with breaking up the 3 worst and not stacking them together...

It hurts YOUR PITCHER when you stack.

When you stack them, you always run the risk of all three of them coming up in an inning...or two of them. And, that's an easy and QUICK inning for the opposing team. It's like 3 downs and punt in football, and it forces your defense back into the field in a hurry.

That doesn't allow your pitcher to catch some rest. It's stuff like that which kills a pitcher's arm. Throwing pitches and then having to rush back out there to throw more.

@2023Dad posted:

Unless you have 9 dudes that rake, I think everybody who has ever put a lineup together has wrestled with stacking your weaker hitters at the bottom of the order vs. scattering them throughout the lineup. In my experience you can't hide your weaker batters. What almost always happens is you end up with 2 outs and runners on base when one of them comes up to the plate and ends the inning.

If you're trying to win games, you're almost always better off stacking your outs at the bottom of the lineup and playing for the big innings. And if 1 or 2 guys on the bottom of the order manage to get on base and you turn the lineup over, big innings become huge innings.

You don't need a line-up of all guys that "rake". You just need balance, and occasionally the right guy in the right situation (5 hole ). I have found stats to be a little misleading over the years especially with youth baseball. Too many variables at times with short sample sizes. Obviously, the kid batting 394 is better than the kid batting 188. But what about the 272 kid versus the 327 kid? A couple of dying quails or so-so errors can change those numbers quickly. That is why I like to double up speed guys followed by the power guys. Our goal is score every inning. Doesn't usually happen, but you will win a lot of games if you can accomplish that feat.

With that said, I agree that if you have a guy that is an automatic out he goes to the bottom. Then of course; if you have 3, 4, or 5 of these guys, well you ain't winning much regardless of where you put them. If this is the case, then actually, I have failed them as a coach in the first place....

@ReluctantO'sFan posted:

But what about the 272 kid versus the 327 kid? A couple of dying quails or so-so errors can change those numbers quickly.

For sure, although we only had stats to go on for this exercise

As a coach I don't think I ever really looked at stats when setting the lineup, you can tell who's hitting the ball well by watching practice and the games. The stats usually reinforce what you already know.

@ReluctantO'sFan posted:

Our goal is score every inning. Doesn't usually happen, but you will win a lot of games if you can accomplish that feat.

Mine too. Give me 1 run an inning and we'll win almost every game we play.

Interesting replies from all, and I thank you. I always tend to think that the stats can verify or dispel what you're seeing on the field. In a vacuum (like I presented in this), the data can definitely help, but it doesn't tell the entire story, as 2023Dad and O'sfan noted. That 274 kid may be barreling the snot out of the ball, but just had a week where they are all directly at the fielders.

The other thing that this thread made me think about is the "long run". Over 162 games, those OBPs will end up making enough of a difference to be seen. But over a 30 game HS season, you're unlikely to see enough of a difference there. Other metrics may be more important (BA/RSP?) in that shorter run.

Tonight’s order:

8

1

6

7

5

2

4

9

3

7-2 win.

Interesting article on the changing nature of the number 2 hitter.  #2 hitter has gone from a slap hitter used to move a runner to the best hitter.

The basic reasoning and the statistics play this out, is that the #2 hitter comes up to bat more often. 30-50 times more often in a MLB year.  Don't you want a best bat up more often?

In high school, 7 inning games, this effect is even more important.  The top of the order comes up 3 or 4 times.  The bottom of the order only 2 or 3 times.

https://www.baseballprospectus...eimagining-2-hitter/

The article includes a best batting order calculator based on OBP and slugging.

http://www.baseballmusings.com...in/LineupAnalysis.py

According to the calculator, this is your best line up.

Must be assuming some very long games...

I assume they had to run a boatload of simulations to even see the differences in the numbers.  Which means that most batting orders would work.

Read quite a few articles toward that end, @JETSR71. Was part of the influence of the original post. I don't think that you will see that trickle down soon from MLB, where it's starting to become somewhat common. But I'm definitely going to be watching this season to see what opposing teams do in that 2/3/4 hole.