Cage hitting...

What would you then recommend? As with any drill be it pitching, fielding, or hitting, the opportunity is always present for repeated repetitions of poor quality. The driving force for the player has to be intrinsic and they have to understand exactly what they are working on. For instance, to put a kid in a cage and to throw to them so that they can swing doesn't get the job done. They have to have a goal or a specific key they are working on. Naturally, you want to take that work then to the field. Nothing, IMHO, can replace hitting on a field off of a coach who can locate, spin pitches and most importantly have the ability to coach while doing so. Bluedog have you ever thought to yourself about the coach who throws 20 pitches and doesn't say a thing?


I would suggest, and I know we don't agree on this, that breakdown drills are very beneficial in cages. Again, the kid has to be motivated, the coach has to know what progress he wants out of the player and all has to be supervised. Again, JMHO!

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

How your motor control system functions is what determines how good, or how bad, your swing will be.....In most amateur players (almost all), their motor control system doesn't function efficiently when swinging a bat....It does what comes easy to it.....And, easy in this case, isn't efficient.....

It has always been my view that the best most efficient and effective swing is the easiest swing.

When swinging anything where the majority of the weight or contact area is at the far end, the easiest, most effective and most efficient swing generates the most speed of that weight and contact area into the contact zone.

I always recommend what I call the smooth swing (hitting the ball on the follow through).

I break this swing into three parts.

1) WHIP is bringing the bat down from its high point to the level of contact using the arms.
2) WRIST is the portion where the bat reaches the front of the body. Bottom hand slows while top hand generates more bat speed.
3) FOLLOW THROUGH is allowing the generated bat speed to make contact with the ball.

If a batter relaxes and lets the bat do the work, they will hit the ball harder and further with less effort.

CoachB25, I look at swinging a bat in a different perspective than most coaches, as you well know.....

I believe there are two ways to improve a hitter's hitting ability....Teach him better use of vision to improve timing....And/or teach him better use of his motor control system.....

In learning either, or both, I want him also to learn not to think about what he is doing.....I don't teach connection, then rotation, then proper use of posture, etc.....I teach them as one, not seperate movements......

That's why I don't tell a hitter not to slot his back elbow.....I don't want him thinking about it.....Instead, I teach him to just turn to the ball.....It's all about body angles and using the middle properly, anyway....Get that right and the rest will fall in line.....

Blue, do you teach many young hitters, 8-10 year old range? If so, do you have any simple drills that could be used, or that you would suggest to help teach efficiency of movement?

BD, well done. Thats some clear and concise jibbersh you're spewing. Actually, I think you spent time to deliver a good explanation and put some thought into your response.
As CoachB stated, we all need a plan when entering the cage. As you have stated, swinging for the sake of swinging is a waste of time.
Now, I know as much about whats in your mind, as you know whats in mine or anyone else's here.
Many of us do know about the core, balance, motor control, muscle memory and so-on.
So lets continue to share what we have to offer, as you have done so well here, and then we can all learn something.

I like a cage because we don't have to go as far to pick up balls. (I'm getting both old and cranky). As you may know, I have junked one-handed drills. I like a cage because it is efficient (the ball doesn't go far.)

However, I don't think there is a substitute for field work.

I just dropped off my son to FSU and he will be passed on. I'm now going to try to make his 8 year old a hitting monster.

I teach...
1. Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I don't have a drill where the player is practicing anything but game day swings -- nothing slow. Practices don't last long, just are frequent. If they are too tired to swing properly it is time to go.
2. Pitch recognition is always what I call an overlay. No matter what we are working I don't want my hitter swinging at a pitch they cannot handle, even if it is in the strike zone and even if I misplace a tee.
3. I teach unit hand hitting. Both hands initiate and both hands bring the barrel into the contact area.
4. All body parts are important. Knee (or foot or hips) turn in, open to initiate, hips follow, hands stay back, hands follow, hit through the ball and I never teach follow through. Except I teach a top hand release.
5. Never swing hard, swing fast or quick -- pick your mental key (fast or quick, but not hard). My older son is just over 6 ft and can hit a ball (with metal) 500' and hits 45% of his hits for extra bases.
6. Game time, just hit. I never instruct during a game. Feedback is for later.
7. Like a pitcher practices lanes, I teach hitting in the lanes. 7 baseballs butted up are strikes, I first teach the middle 3 hitting up the middle, then the outside pitches getting deeper and driven opposite field then the inside pitches pulled and the barrel in front. Although the 7 balls should be hit on a diagonal I only teach 3 vertical zones.

I want balance and extension (in front not to the side) on middle pitches. I want balance but not extension on inside pitches and extension but I don't care about balance on outside pitches. The faster a hitter swings the more they tend to "walk out" of and outside pitch swing.

8. For off-speed I teach to not go to the pitch but let the barrel feed. (I think some would call that keeping your posture.) I don't teach to stay back on off-speed. I believe you have to stay back somewhat on all pitches, even fast balls.
9. I don't believe in teaching contact versus power hitting. I teach elevation. If a kid can hit far, teach line drives to elevate, if a fast kid with not as much power, teach line drive to hitting down (but through the ball). I don't believe in teaching rolling to contact or beating the ball down. All players should be worked on for increased contact and power.

So, am I messing up my guys? Feed me!

BD what do you teach your younger kids who drop and sweep? This seems natural but doesn't seem to be cured by teaching middle rotation only.

Deacon, yes, I do work with younger kids....

Age 7 is not too young to start them, IMO....I
have become less dependent on using drills in teaching, though.....For all ages.....Drills, IMO, are for teaching a technique.....And, I'm really not teaching a technique....I'm teaching kids how to use their eyes, brain, muscles and nerves better in hope that they can get closer to reaching their hitting potential......

And, Deacon, I believe the eyes, brain, muscles and nerves need to be taught together as one....When you're hitting under stress in a game, that's how they function, as one....

I don't believe using drills to reinforce muscle memory is a worthwhile endeavor.....There was a time when I did, but, I no longer am a believer in muscle memory as it pertains to hitting....

Bluedog,

You said you dont teach them to think consciously about their physical movements. OK

And you also dont believe in muscle memory. OK

Then what exactly are the other alternatives?

quote:

So, am I messing up my guys?

baseballpappa, not if they hit the way you say they do....

quote:

......but doesn't seem to be cured by teaching middle rotation only.

I teach the middle is the power source....Believe me, I do want the whole body turning.....I'm not a hips first type.....

Radio silence.

LOL

wayback,

I agree - Thought provoking indeed.

LOL

I wasted a lot of time on drills. Some college camps are having a contest on who can show the most hitting drills.

If you guys watch most hitters going through drills it is negative learning. Half swings and a lot of talk.

One of the worst drills -- soft toss from the side. Forgive me, I use to have my players turn to the side and act like they were practicing hitting. What a waste!

I only do drills from the front, no behind the player tosses, no one-handed, no soft toss from the side. No swing at everything drills.

quote:

I don't teach connection, then rotation, then proper use of posture, etc.....I teach them as one, not seperate movements......

Let me add here that Dog hasn't cornered the market so to speak with his ideas or comments. Let me also add that while posture-connection-rotation must be achieved to be efficient. They do at times have to be learned in a progression.

There is a reason we don't just go to college at 6 years old!

I'll also add that

quote:

I believe there are two ways to improve a hitter's hitting ability....Teach him better use of vision to improve timing....And/or teach him better use of his motor control system.....

You can have all the vision you want and you can train those eyes. But you better be able to swing the bat! I would have left the word "OR" out. But some interesting points.

quote:

They do at times have to be learned in a progression.

There is a reason we don't just go to college at 6 years old!

Now, baseballpappa and wayback, this is thought provoking and a case in study.....Here is Vance telling us that things have to be learned a certain way.....

Gentlemen,

I have been an onlooker here for a few months and now I guess its time to jump into the water.

I find a lot of what you discussing intriguing, but not sure how to begin the process of getting my son into this way of hitting. I know there are some CDs/DVDs/Tapes on the market and some web asites that also offer up some information as well.

I would like recommendations from you here on a solid program to start with. I do not have an unlimited budget, and do not want to waste my time and money on something you guys know is flawed or does not present the material properly.

I should have added he is 15 and we are looking to improve his hitting with a goal of being a varsity starter next high school season.

not at all, learn it how you want to. Go Z to A as far as I'm concerned. Your missing the point Paul!