Re. the whole charter school thing if the school districts would have taken care of business and put the money where it belonged they wouldn't be in this position to begin with. I live in LAUSD boundaries IMOP giving this district money is like giving it to a crack head and not enough of that money ever makes it to the schools themselves and to much of it is spent on the bureaucracy at the top. I can see why charter schools started up. Why have the middle man keep the money when a charter school can keep all the money they get per student
I think what will happen is the sports in high schools will be converted to private clubs/organizations and they will just add older age groups to include high school students.
You already have Jr. Football leagues that are feeder programs to the high schools. Baseball can just start spring travel ball leagues or American legion can just start up a spring season. Same with little leagues. S****r, basketball, wrestling
and just about all other sports have private year round clubs and it would not take much to extend their seasons.
You already have Jr. Football leagues that are feeder programs to the high schools. Baseball can just start spring travel ball leagues or American legion can just start up a spring season. Same with little leagues. S****r, basketball, wrestling
and just about all other sports have private year round clubs and it would not take much to extend their seasons.
Mike,
I just gave the number of students athletes and high schools in California. At no point did I state this the minority of schools asking for high fees. I simply stated that there needs to be more research and concrete numbers before assuming the majority of schools asking of a high fee. We are talking multiple sports here. What would you consider a high fee? I know some schools get outrageous with the fees and you feel the majority of the 1000+ high school charge an overwhelming fee?
How would does one go about asking all 1.2 million student athletes how the feel what they feel is high or what they were willing to pay as fees. I understand the school system. My mother was a teacher, my wife is a teacher, my sister is a teacher/admin, I have three sis and bro in laws that are teachers and in admin so I know about schools not having money. My wife spends over $1000 of her own money on her classroom each year. We have paid bus fees to cover field trips for her class. It is her choice to do so and commend her for it. My sister helped start one of the first charter schools in Northern California. The idea of starting a charter school wasn't due to funding but due to wanting something better on the education side. Of those students attending charter schools how many of them would are student athletes. You see these new specialty high school being opened more and more. A student decides to attend a performing art school and wants to be a dancer. When the class starts she realizes she in order to do her best she needs to have the right shoes, outfits and other items. Is the school held responsible and can be sued? I would think every school in California was be subject to a lawsuit due to this law and not just for sports but also for drama, science, math and so on. What good does that do other than syphon more money from the schools. Since this topic came up I asked parents on our program about what their feeling on paying fees for HS sports and they said had no problem with knowing how short schools are with money. Most used as a rallying point knowing the need to do it themselves and found way to fundraise. I also know many coaches ask a little more to help cover a player they know are struggling.
Mike, I respect your opinion and what you do. What do you feel would be a solution to this problem? Law dictates fee can not be collected what would you suggest for school do to provide for the student athletes? You are a supporter of high school sports and especially baseball you have given points on the where is it headed but nothing is given or no one here on any ideas to help athletic programs survive.
I feel the focus should be on what schools and programs can do to make through these tough times.
I just gave the number of students athletes and high schools in California. At no point did I state this the minority of schools asking for high fees. I simply stated that there needs to be more research and concrete numbers before assuming the majority of schools asking of a high fee. We are talking multiple sports here. What would you consider a high fee? I know some schools get outrageous with the fees and you feel the majority of the 1000+ high school charge an overwhelming fee?
How would does one go about asking all 1.2 million student athletes how the feel what they feel is high or what they were willing to pay as fees. I understand the school system. My mother was a teacher, my wife is a teacher, my sister is a teacher/admin, I have three sis and bro in laws that are teachers and in admin so I know about schools not having money. My wife spends over $1000 of her own money on her classroom each year. We have paid bus fees to cover field trips for her class. It is her choice to do so and commend her for it. My sister helped start one of the first charter schools in Northern California. The idea of starting a charter school wasn't due to funding but due to wanting something better on the education side. Of those students attending charter schools how many of them would are student athletes. You see these new specialty high school being opened more and more. A student decides to attend a performing art school and wants to be a dancer. When the class starts she realizes she in order to do her best she needs to have the right shoes, outfits and other items. Is the school held responsible and can be sued? I would think every school in California was be subject to a lawsuit due to this law and not just for sports but also for drama, science, math and so on. What good does that do other than syphon more money from the schools. Since this topic came up I asked parents on our program about what their feeling on paying fees for HS sports and they said had no problem with knowing how short schools are with money. Most used as a rallying point knowing the need to do it themselves and found way to fundraise. I also know many coaches ask a little more to help cover a player they know are struggling.
Mike, I respect your opinion and what you do. What do you feel would be a solution to this problem? Law dictates fee can not be collected what would you suggest for school do to provide for the student athletes? You are a supporter of high school sports and especially baseball you have given points on the where is it headed but nothing is given or no one here on any ideas to help athletic programs survive.
I feel the focus should be on what schools and programs can do to make through these tough times.
And how much money are the schools losing to prop 13 which started the whole mess to begin with but nobody wants to talk about. The inequity in property taxes in California has to be addressed. In the mean time, once again, SGV has responsible parents who will pay the fees at their schools or help fund raise, as it should be. Unfortunately, at our local school we are seeing 50 percent who pay and 50 percent who take advantage. Tough to fund a program with half the money you had originally budgeted for.
Eaters,
I hear you. I know how hard you work at helping your school which is so commendable. I think if everyone would come together for a solution if would be great. I know there are players who won't pay just not to pay which is unfortunate. I think coaches and parents need to sit and talk at each school about funding and what is affordable. I don't think new uniforms every year is needed. New practice T's, shorts, caps and shoes are something gets worn so they do need replacement.
I hear you. I know how hard you work at helping your school which is so commendable. I think if everyone would come together for a solution if would be great. I know there are players who won't pay just not to pay which is unfortunate. I think coaches and parents need to sit and talk at each school about funding and what is affordable. I don't think new uniforms every year is needed. New practice T's, shorts, caps and shoes are something gets worn so they do need replacement.
Well maybe prop 13 isn't the best but then the fault lies with our elected officials at the time. Property taxes went out of control. Every time our state government wanted another program or something, they raised property taxes. I'm old enough to remember before prop 13, my Dad was sitting at his desk paying bills and said "It's finally happened, my property tax portion of my payment is greater than my mortgage portion". So that's what happens when our elected officals get out of control.
Mike,
That is all well and good about the parents coming together to work something out to pay. However that is not going to happen until things are changed within the government as "Pay for Play" in illegal in the state of California.
That is why the Principal from Palm Desert HS was fired.
That is all well and good about the parents coming together to work something out to pay. However that is not going to happen until things are changed within the government as "Pay for Play" in illegal in the state of California.
That is why the Principal from Palm Desert HS was fired.
Gov. Jerry Brown’s administration rejected the terms of the settlement by the previous administration that was settled with the ACLU. As a result, on April 7, the ACLU filed litigation to sue the state of California again. Sapp said the ACLU is asking that the state create an enforcement system that is fast and carries punishments for offenders.
One of those punishments would include reimbursement with interest for students who were charged to participate in athletics. Schools that continue to make participation contingent on payment after that could risk having their state funds withheld.
One of those punishments would include reimbursement with interest for students who were charged to participate in athletics. Schools that continue to make participation contingent on payment after that could risk having their state funds withheld.
Clovis Unified will pay $250,000 to settle a 2009 lawsuit that alleged it illegally charged fees to students for extracurricular activities like cheerleading and band.
Three families will collect a share of $225,000, which also will pay lawyer fees and costs. The remaining $25,000 will be set aside for 18 months in case new allegations are uncovered. And others could see their costs go down as a result of the suit.
The families filed the lawsuit after receiving bills from the district for thousands of dollars. One student said she received an itemized bill for more than $2,400 for band fees described as "voluntary donations."
Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/...settles-student.html
Three families will collect a share of $225,000, which also will pay lawyer fees and costs. The remaining $25,000 will be set aside for 18 months in case new allegations are uncovered. And others could see their costs go down as a result of the suit.
The families filed the lawsuit after receiving bills from the district for thousands of dollars. One student said she received an itemized bill for more than $2,400 for band fees described as "voluntary donations."
Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/...settles-student.html
Mike,
How do propose school sports survive without any type of fee or fundraising to help with costs? You seem very passionate about this topic. Why is that?
You seem to be focusing on the demise of HS sports and not any part of a solution.
How do propose school sports survive without any type of fee or fundraising to help with costs? You seem very passionate about this topic. Why is that?
You seem to be focusing on the demise of HS sports and not any part of a solution.
Mike,
That is typical of you. I have for a long time to bring this up with people like yourself as how things are going. You are right that I am passionate about this topic as people need to be aware of what is happening and if they want to do something they need to get involved with finding a solution that will work instead of being like you think that it is no big deal to just keep status quo.
We are in a serious problem in which things are going to happen and when they happen, people are not going to be prepared. This is something that has been happening for years.
I can tell you this, I do believe that the schools should charge a fee for athletics to help the cost. But it is not going to happen with what is in place. There are many people that I know that have been unable to pay those fees because of their own situation with finances and jobs.
We have more of a serious issue with high schools when they charge the fees is that in some cases, the money that is being charged is NOT going toward the assisting for that sport. It is going into places that shouldn't be going.
I am a very passionate person and when it comes to doing the right thing, I try to do what I believe in. What is happening we are coming to a situation that school districts are seriously looking to drop athletics. But there are many people that are ignorant of this and don't believe that will happen. I can tell you we are closer than you think when it comes to this.
I know in Ohio, there have been some school districts that have shut down sports in their schools which has made an impact on the community where they are trying to reinstate sports as they didn't believe that it would really happen.
So if you are one of those people who don't believe it will happen, then you fall in that area of not really understanding the whole situation.
Because budget cuts are coming in again and I know of some teachers have been given their pink slips and their student enrollment hasn't really changed. Schools are looking to cut. More people will be losing jobs and it is not good.
That is typical of you. I have for a long time to bring this up with people like yourself as how things are going. You are right that I am passionate about this topic as people need to be aware of what is happening and if they want to do something they need to get involved with finding a solution that will work instead of being like you think that it is no big deal to just keep status quo.
We are in a serious problem in which things are going to happen and when they happen, people are not going to be prepared. This is something that has been happening for years.
I can tell you this, I do believe that the schools should charge a fee for athletics to help the cost. But it is not going to happen with what is in place. There are many people that I know that have been unable to pay those fees because of their own situation with finances and jobs.
We have more of a serious issue with high schools when they charge the fees is that in some cases, the money that is being charged is NOT going toward the assisting for that sport. It is going into places that shouldn't be going.
I am a very passionate person and when it comes to doing the right thing, I try to do what I believe in. What is happening we are coming to a situation that school districts are seriously looking to drop athletics. But there are many people that are ignorant of this and don't believe that will happen. I can tell you we are closer than you think when it comes to this.
I know in Ohio, there have been some school districts that have shut down sports in their schools which has made an impact on the community where they are trying to reinstate sports as they didn't believe that it would really happen.
So if you are one of those people who don't believe it will happen, then you fall in that area of not really understanding the whole situation.
Because budget cuts are coming in again and I know of some teachers have been given their pink slips and their student enrollment hasn't really changed. Schools are looking to cut. More people will be losing jobs and it is not good.
Also on another note. Every lawsuit that has come out against the schools from parents about the charging of fees. Every case was lost by the schools.
How does this effect Legion? If parents won't pay for spring they wont want to pay for summer or fall ball. Can a school charge for summer play? Is summer and fall play a right as well as spring?
Well Mike it looks like you and the ACLU might be getting your wish. Instead of finding a solution all the ACLU is going to get is programs cancelled.
Brilliance in action.....
http://www.latimes.com/news/lo...0510,0,6191536.story
Brilliance in action.....
http://www.latimes.com/news/lo...0510,0,6191536.story
BOF,
This is not what I was wishing to happen. I only had brought this out as for people to be aware of what was happening. For some time, people were turning a blind eye to things and the fees.
What was happening was that the coaches were starting to take advantage of charging fees more than what was necessary. This was something that got the attention of the ACLU and started an investigation as the fees that were being charged were and are getting out of hand. Students who couldn't afford these fees were being treated badly by the school administration.
I just talked with a parent of a kid that he was told by the school if they don't pay their baseball fee that he wouldn't graduate high school. This kid is not a kid that plays in our program, but a parent who does had him contact me on this and I gave him the information necessary that would help with him in addressing this situation. The reason he of not wanting to pay the baseball fee is that they don't have the money to pay it and they are afraid that he won't be able to graduate high school.
You may think that is only an isolated issue, but truth is that it is a lot bigger than you may think. I know that there have been some coaches that have been approached by what they are doing with the fees that they have been charging. There also has been some coaches that have been let go because of the money raised was finding it's way into their pockets.
This is a big problem in where it has been created not by the ACLU, but to many coaches that have abused the situation. I do believe that fees need to be charged for athletics, but not some of the fees that have been charged. I was a Head Coach of a high school a few years ago and we had players pay a fee for baseball. This was really the only way that the baseball program would work. So, I am not against it. But I am against how much the fees that are being asked by coaches in the amount that they are asking for. I think that many of them are way out of line.
As for the article and about cutting extra curricular activities because of not being allowed to charge will force them to drop sports from their schools. This is only a matter of time as it is going to happen, unless there is a change in the budget for schools.
This is not what I was wishing to happen. I only had brought this out as for people to be aware of what was happening. For some time, people were turning a blind eye to things and the fees.
What was happening was that the coaches were starting to take advantage of charging fees more than what was necessary. This was something that got the attention of the ACLU and started an investigation as the fees that were being charged were and are getting out of hand. Students who couldn't afford these fees were being treated badly by the school administration.
I just talked with a parent of a kid that he was told by the school if they don't pay their baseball fee that he wouldn't graduate high school. This kid is not a kid that plays in our program, but a parent who does had him contact me on this and I gave him the information necessary that would help with him in addressing this situation. The reason he of not wanting to pay the baseball fee is that they don't have the money to pay it and they are afraid that he won't be able to graduate high school.
You may think that is only an isolated issue, but truth is that it is a lot bigger than you may think. I know that there have been some coaches that have been approached by what they are doing with the fees that they have been charging. There also has been some coaches that have been let go because of the money raised was finding it's way into their pockets.
This is a big problem in where it has been created not by the ACLU, but to many coaches that have abused the situation. I do believe that fees need to be charged for athletics, but not some of the fees that have been charged. I was a Head Coach of a high school a few years ago and we had players pay a fee for baseball. This was really the only way that the baseball program would work. So, I am not against it. But I am against how much the fees that are being asked by coaches in the amount that they are asking for. I think that many of them are way out of line.
As for the article and about cutting extra curricular activities because of not being allowed to charge will force them to drop sports from their schools. This is only a matter of time as it is going to happen, unless there is a change in the budget for schools.
William Hart High School being sued for charging fees......
http://www.the-signal.com/section/36/article/48889/
http://www.the-signal.com/section/36/article/48889/