Can we ban the bunt?

Emanski's Heroes posted:

High school playoff game (Stafford at Atlee). Lead off hitter for Stafford walks and we get the immediate bunt. Number three hitter doubles. 1-0. What might have happened if an out wasn't given away?

Bottom 1st: lead off hitter reaches 2nd on error. Coach has number 2 hitter attempt to bunt the runner to third twice before hitting a sharp single to left to score the run. Number 3 hitter promptly gives away an at bat with a weak grounder back to pitcher on a hit and run. 

Shockingly both coaches played for one run and its 1-1. Can we just stop talking the bat out of their hands? Let them hit and see what happens?

PS: top 2 now, lead off hitter walks, gets balked to second, and the hitter bunts through a pitch (again trying to bunt a runner to third) then strikes out. Painful. 

We had some alumni come back for the last games over the weekend.  They all made comments regarding the coach's love of the bunt.  One in particular said, "I bunted more than I swung, and I was top of the order."  

I love the bunt and believe it is an effective weapon both offensively and psychologically.   The scenario you presented with the 2 strikes and then the successful hit might not have transpired if the hitter swung away.  There are so many times when a bunt and run, sac, squeeze, ... drastically change a game.  I've helped coach a team that won a state title where we used the bunt extensively in the championship game. 

I'm fine with bunting in a situation where you "drastically change a game" to use your words. A first inning bunt with no outs doesn't come close to fitting that description. Late in a game to tie or take the lead? I'm all for that. But the most important resource is outs because you only get 21. If you're going to give one away there better be major returns. The misuse of outs via the bunt is a rampant problem throughout high school and college which is why I'd be happy banning it altogether.

Btw Atlee won 11-1. Good thing both teams played for that one run early. 

Emanski's Heroes posted:

High school playoff game (Stafford at Atlee). Lead off hitter for Stafford walks and we get the immediate bunt. Number three hitter doubles. 1-0. What might have happened if an out wasn't given away?

Bottom 1st: lead off hitter reaches 2nd on error. Coach has number 2 hitter attempt to bunt the runner to third twice before hitting a sharp single to left to score the run. Number 3 hitter promptly gives away an at bat with a weak grounder back to pitcher on a hit and run. 

Shockingly both coaches played for one run and its 1-1. Can we just stop talking the bat out of their hands? Let them hit and see what happens?

PS: top 2 now, lead off hitter walks, gets balked to second, and the hitter bunts through a pitch 1(again trying to bunt a runner to third) then strikes out. Painful. 

1) The bunt put the runner in scoring position and was the run was scored.  Mission accomplished!!!!  What might have happened if he didn't bunt...the no. 2 might have rolled into a 6-4-3, and no runs score.

2) Sounds to me that the issue was not with the decision to bunt, but with the 3 hitter not doing his job!

3) I would like to present the other side of the coin.  Perhaps this coach is so confident in his kids, that he believes that if they don't get the bunt down, as requested...which apparently they need a lot more practice...he has confidence that they can handle the bat with a strike or two.  Further, perhaps this is a game where the coaching staff sees more of a 3-2 or 4-3 type of outcome where every single run is precious.  Just a thought.

Sounds like the government.  I don't like this part of the game, so lets ban it.  I am not a fan of the sac bunt with 1 out, but that's why coaches coach.  Like or not.

No, if banned, would change the positioning of the corner infielders.

Why do pitchouts?  Why do pickoff attempts?  Why play your infield in?  Why shift?  Why hit and run?  All parts of the beauty of this game.   In most cases, 2 quality teams play each other, the game is decided by one play here, one play there.  That bunt could be the difference in a game.  Forces the coach to possibly pull his corners in when the same situation arises, and have the other coach swing away and pull one past the corner infielder all because that bunt earlier in the game set this situation up.   It's a strategy to get runs across the board.  Nobody likes seeing a 3 hitter bunt, but that's HS baseball.  

I would be willing to ban bunting if you are also willing to ban off speed pitches.

Statistically speaking, the sac bunt increases your chances of scoring one run slightly more than just hitting away. However it greatly decreases your chances of scoring more than one run.

You have to decide based on game situations whether or not you want to make that trade off.  There are too many variables to pass a blanket edict as to when the bunt is justified or not.

Hey Emanski, long time no see!

Hate to tell you, but I'm a big fan of bunting.  I especially like it as a key component of pressure offense -- where you use aggressive base running, then add the element of forcing the defense to make a play with runners in motion.  It's a great way to break the ice with an early run, and if the opposition is weak defensively, you can break their spirit early.  The fact that the game ended up 11-1 might very well have been precisely because of the early approach.  Sometimes, when you play for the big hit, it doesn't come, and everyone ends up squeezing the bat so tight they just don't hit.  But when you get that early 1-0, then you make it 2-0, then it gets to 4-0 ... the other team starts hanging their heads, you get into their bullpen, and the floodgates open.

It does kill me that so many guys bunt so poorly.  It's really an easy skill to learn, so to me, this is a sign of either the absence of sound instruction or ofthe player just not putting his work in -- or both.  At the two games at Deep Run last night, I think I saw 8 guys TRY to bunt but only two who got it done well.  One kid did the thing where he bunted for a hit but was so intent on dusting the chalk that although he would easily have been safe, the ball rolled foul.  Most of the others just couldn't make contact while bunting, which when you think about it is pretty absurd.

I would definitely ban players who can't bunt from my lineup.  Maybe that would solve your concerns from a different angle!

Can we ban 2-0 take signs, or "take until you get a strike"?

(just kidding .  .  . sort of)

Hey Midlo,

I've got a 20 month old daughter so my HSBBW time has been decreased. I'm currently trying to decide whether to teach her to bunt by pivoting or squaring around

This was the second high school game I've seen this season. 

2019Dad posted:

Can we ban 2-0 take signs, or "take until you get a strike"?

(just kidding .  .  . sort of)

2019Dad posted:

Can we ban 2-0 take signs, or "take until you get a strike"?

(just kidding .  .  . sort of)

How about just banning all signs on 2-0? Unless you have a sign for "get a good pitch and swing really freaking hard". What else are you putting on there?

My personal fave is the coach that goes through signs like he's got a hornet inside his uniform that he's trying to smash and there's clearly no reason to have anything on. 

Emanski's Heroes posted:

Hey Midlo,

I've got a 20 month old daughter so my HSBBW time has been decreased. I'm currently trying to decide whether to teach her to bunt by pivoting or squaring around

This was the second high school game I've seen this season. 

You're going to hate fastpitch softball if she decides someday to play it.  LOL

CoachB25 posted:

Emanski's Heroes posted:

Hey Midlo,

I've got a 20 month old daughter so my HSBBW time has been decreased. I'm currently trying to decide whether to teach her to bunt by pivoting or squaring around

This was the second high school game I've seen this season. 

You're going to hate fastpitch softball if she decides someday to play it.  LOL

teach her pitch and slap there is always a home for that.

Yep. Way too many outs given away in high school baseball.. borderline maddening... and with the top OBP hitters and RBI guys on deck! Huh? Most HS teams only have 5 quality hitters... you only get 21 outs.. and you give away 3 to 5 a game - and never have a 3 run inning?

How about HS errors, passed balls, wild pitches, stolen base percentage, double potential, etc?? Just throw those away and bunt? Would love to play against that strategy for money. Oh and don't forget how many players end up with 2 strikes because of it - and now a crucial situation..

How about bunting with 1 out and a man on first? 1 out?!  Math - man on first 1 out - runner scores approx. 50% of time. Man on 2B 2 outs - runner scores 30% of the time... A SUCCESSFUL bunt in this situation is a reduction of scoring potential of 40 %!!

Major League pitchers should bunt.. and if you are giving kids a bunt sign with 1 out, you'd be wiser to give them a take sign for the entire at bat.

CoachB25 posted:

I love the bunt and believe it is an effective weapon both offensively and psychologically.   The scenario you presented with the 2 strikes and then the successful hit might not have transpired if the hitter swung away.  There are so many times when a bunt and run, sac, squeeze, ... drastically change a game.  I've helped coach a team that won a state title where we used the bunt extensively in the championship game. 

Just because you get lucky sometimes and have a pitcher throw the ball over the 1st basemen's head 3 times in a row... Doesn't mean you did the right thing? :0)

I'll add that I am a big fan of a Safe squeeze... because the result is a run scored... but as for the rest of the early in game, bunting with one out to move people, sacrificing quality hitters. It's completely against the percentages... and a huge downer.