Can you afford college?

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Callan said the United States is at best standing still while other countries pass it in areas like college enrollment and completion. And as higher education fails to keep up with population growth, the specter lurks of new generations less educated than their Baby Boomer predecessors.

Thats a hard one to gulp down with my morning coffee.

Here in Illinois, where I believe we are either #1 or #2 in the highest in state tuition in the country, we continue to gut the education budget. The big lie 20 years ago, was that if we pass a law to allow a state lottery, all the profits will go to fund education. Well, they do, but the money that was coming from the general fund for education was reduced by the same amount the lottery fund contributed....net gain? ZERO.

Then we have our biggest cities mayor who thinks that education funding should come from somewhere else and cries poor. He wants to point out the discrepancy between suburban and city schools, yet in city property taxes that fund education are less than 1/3 of what they are for suburban homeowners per home valuation.

It is actually more affordable for many of our in state students to pay out of state tuitions at other schools rather than pay in state at our schools.

Until we really understand that our country's power rests in its knowledge, our arrogance will continue to underfund education and allow the world to pass us by while we strut the global barnyard like a banty rooster oblivious to the facts.

I wonder what effect the current economy will have on college enrollments for the next few years.

On one hand, parents who are out of a job or fearful of losing theirs will have trouble helping their children with college costs. Some HS grads may feel obligated to work for a few years to save up for college.

But on the flip side, with fewer jobs available a college degree will become more important than ever!

Academic and athletic scholarships will become more important. And maybe lower cost JUCO/community college options will see an upswing?

Julie

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Can anyone comment on whether Student Aid in the form of Loans has become tighter this school year? Or did the Global Meltdown occur after (Sept 15) the school financial obligations were in place?

Can anyone comment on how Loans are actually procurred? Do you go to a Financial Aid Office on campus, or do you just go to your local banking institution and stand in line with potential homeowners? Luckily... I just have no experience in this area... but am curious....

cadDAD



A doctor examining a woman who had been rushed to the Emergency Room, took the husband aside, and said, "I don't like the looks of your wife at all."

"Me neither doc," said the husband. "But she's a great cook and really good with the kids."


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I have no idea of the answer, but are we getting our money's worth with the skyrocketing tuition?

Son's first choice of lender, the same one who lent last year, stopped loaning to students at the beginning of this school year- before the big crunch began. We found another, but it set the whole process back and it was months before he got his loan disbursed.

CadDad,
You can walk into a bank for an unsubsidized student loan, and there are also companies that specialize. These lenders need credit scores that most students will not have, so a co-signer is often needed. The better way is to start with a FAFSA to determine eligibility for Pell Grants and subsidized loans (Stafford or Perkins). College FA offices don't lend money. They offer counseling, advice, and in some cases awards for scholarship.

Bank of America Student Banking

Now I'm depressed

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Spizzlepop...

Once again, luckily we haven't had to address any of these challenges as a family, but hopefully anyone reading this thread may get something out of it. I do remember back in 03 when oldest was still considering "State U", that the baseball scholarship was not going to cover everything, and the coaches told us... "what the heck, send in a FAFSA App... all they can say is NO"... And as I recall back then that if you had over $40K in hard assets (and that included home equity) OR (not AND) over $40K in annual income, you weren't eligible. Well in those days if you didn't have 40K in equity in California, you weren't a homeowner (how things have now changed) and if you made less than 40K, you also weren't qualified to be a homeowner (is that called a conundrum or a paradox?)

All I remember was getting a response from FAFSA, and as I recall, the envelope was laughing at me (for ever having applied...) before I even opened it.

So I guess my real question is how do you apply for Student Loans? What institutions offer them? And what are the terms generally?

cadDAD



"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."
-Ronald Reagan (1986)


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My son is at a JC , and he has lived at home first semester but wants to move out in January for second semester. He at first applied for a private collegiate loan through Wells Fargo, the school he attends denied it and had him apply for a Stafford loan which is subsidized, I didnt think we qualified for it. We did do the Fafsa for him. I am in school and am getting a private loan thoug wells fargo, but couldnt get the stafford becasue I didnt do Fafsa. even if yiu dont qualify for grants, do the FAfsa,becasue the government loans are cheaper and you dont pay back until you graduate, and even then you can defer payment if you dont make enough money(sadly a reality of kids with bacehlors degrees just out of school).
Our loans are small though so dont know what it would be like for a bigger loan. I guess we will find out in 2 years whn he goes to a 4 year school.

I think it's time for me to go watch It's A Wonderful Life.......

Here in Ontario Canada we have a similar student loan. It is low interest and you don't pay it back until 6 months after graduation. It also has provisions for interest and payment reductions based on need. I didn't think we could get the loan but my son got $6300. per year less $3500. which was a one time grant. He got it because the cost of the education was so high in the US and he would be living far from home. These loans must be repayed even if you went bankrupt. I worked out the payment and it is approx $285.00 and has to be payed 6 months after leaving college. It is actually a great deal since unused tuition can be writted of to a max of $10500. per year aginst parents income. That is roughly $3000. in tax refund and the scholarships are not taxed. 4 or 5 years ago they were. With a basic tax exemption of about $10,000 before you start paying taxes we will probably use the unused tuition writeoff for a couple more years. Right now we use the tax refund to pay some of his lavish life style. He isn't exactly hard done by.
We also had to apply for the federal loan but couldn't get it . My son did get a letter from the military which put a stunned look on his face.

here's my take........i'll take a stab at it.......
the loan process itself is first started with the parent completing the FAFSA and perhaps the CSS Profile (some privates require the CSS). Some schools also have their own required financial aid form which is neither a FAFSA or a CSS. once the school awards the financial aid package (early spring)......included are any perkins or stafford (unsubsidized or subsidized) and alternative loans. The parents EFC (estimated family contribution) is also noted on the financial aid package. You can't just go out and borrow without first having the college's financial aid package completed.........so you're first stop is always the Financial Aid Office at the college...and then you go from there. I think this is how it works........when you make application to borrow and once approval is given, the lender still verifies with the school the dollar amounts for loans and loan types approved that are noted in the financial aid package. there are preferred lenders through the college or you can find a lender on your own. The lender asks for the college's code.......this lets them know the dollar amounts for the loans and which loan types are approved by the college financial aid office.

i know it's confusing.......but most of us manage to muddle through it somehow so to recap......be sure to complete the FAFSA and have it sent to the college financial aid office, complete the CSS Profile (if required) (it's found at the collegeboard website) and also any financial aid form required by the college. You wait for the college to determine the Financial Aid Package, and Then you contact lenders once you have that information in hand.

keep in mind that loan amounts are not the same everywhere. We usually saw larger loans made available through private rather than public universities. total cost of attendance for each school, i think, comes into play......so not all packages are the same since not all schools have the same total cost of attendance. Some packages will be heavier on loans than others. Some may include more scholarships and grants. cad dad, this is why some students are applying to 8 to 10 colleges or more. their parents want to be able to compare the financial aid packages that are completed by each college.

it's not a clear cut process.......you have to wade through it

quote:

you have to wade through it

There are times when I hate having to be a " grown up ".

Juco and living at home is a very affordable way to attend college.

That won't work necessarily when baseball is involved.

And, living at home is not a kid's likely choice.

But, you can get half your education at a greatly reduce priced when compared to most state four-year schools.

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Originally posted by AcademyDad:
Well in those days if you didn't have 40K in equity in California, you weren't a homeowner (how things have now changed) and if you made less than 40K, you also weren't qualified to be a homeowner (is that called a conundrum or a paradox?)

I think it is neither conundrum nor paradox. The correct technical term is Catch-22.

That study is bogus. It asked whether you could afford the cost of college if you tried to pay it out of current year income. Anyone trying to do that must've been living in a cave their kid's first 18 years.

Many universities are charging obscene amounts, IMHO, and I can tell you that Midlo Son wouldn't be where he is but for baseball money.

But there are quality, state-supported options out there, and if you plan and save, you can get it done.

Of course, it's and ant/grasshopper story, isn't it?

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But there are quality, state-supported options out there, and if you plan and save, you can get it done

In this economy, the schools most difficult to get accepted to will be those quality state schools. Everyone and their brother who is academically qualified for Ivy League, Top Tier schools, will now be looking at quality state schools. Why would you send your kid to Georgetown, Duke, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest -- if your kid could go to UVA or Tech for 25% of the cost.

Pity the hardworking, above average, well rounded kid who used to list the state school as the "safety" school. State schools are going to have the pick of the litter this year!

Probably easier to get into the pricier schools if you can pay for it!

Lou Dobbs just said (in relation to the above post) that families are using 55% of their income for college costs.

I kick MYSELF in the rear every semester that I write a check for my twins tuition that I did not take advantage of purchasing future education with 1990 dollars. At that time there were many programs that allowed college savings for future students. As a Univ of WI employee I was offered to invest the cost of a 1990 education that would be good for my kids schooling in the UW system within 2 years of their HS graduation. If not used the money would have had a 3% yearly accrued interest added to the initial investment. That would have been a nice return on my 1990 dollar.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
[I think it is neither conundrum nor paradox. The correct technical term is Catch-22.

I prefer to think of it as being whacked over the head with a six-foot long, one-inch thick piece of FUBAR.

To answer the question - No we can't afford college.

The cost of a college education is enormus no matter how you cut it.

Start mutliplying the cost by 2-3 kids and if the siblings are of a younger age add for inflation.. It's depressing.

One thing that jumped out at me is the amount of new construction on campuses.... EVERY school we visited had some sort of substantial new construction going on...

College is BIG BUSINESS!

NO.

I tell every student I meet that the very best thing that you can do for yourself is to study hard and get good grades.

There is a lot of money given out for really good grades. And what a great job for a student to have---to study hard and get good grades. A nice return on their investment--it can total in the tens of thousands. Not bad.

Even if a student doesn't qualify for an "academic scholarship", some colleges offer "grant money"--money that doesn't have to be paid back--for good grades. Not technically an "academic scholarship", but money for academic success, nonetheless.


Yes, what a "catch 22"--you need a college degree for a job, yet you can't afford a college degree without a well-paying job.

Next year will be quite interesting. So many more families will qualify for need-based financial aid, but there won't be as much money available....Again, I tell my own kids (and every other kid) to study hard and get good grades.

Are the Hope and Bright Futures scholarships in each state not helping?
My kids are not college age yet, but I know with decent grades they will qualify for state supported scholarship money (from state lottery programs.)
Florida has a Bright Futures scholarship that pays the tuition.
Tennessee, where I live, has a program that pays $4,000 per year if GPA is at 2.75 and $5,500 if at 3.75. I think Georgia is the same. These programs are open to everyone regardless of income, etc.

Are these not being used to at least cover tuition?

I know when I went to college, tuition wasn't the major expense I had. Apartment, groceries, car were my major college expenses. But, seems like the state programs available now at least cover the tuition.

As CPLZ said:

quote:

The big lie 20 years ago, was that if we pass a law to allow a state lottery, all the profits will go to fund education. Well, they do, but the money that was coming from the general fund for education was reduced by the same amount the lottery fund contributed....net gain? ZERO.

I haven't researched it but I did find this old article about Tennessee:

The University of Memphis, along with all institutions governed by the Tennessee Board of Regents, as well as the University of Tennessee, will raise in-state tuition this fall by 15 percent for all undergraduates, graduate students and law students. Out-of-state tuition at The U of M will rise by 15 percent for all undergraduates and graduate students and by 20 percent for law students. The increases were decided by the Tennessee Board of Regents in the face of decreasing support of higher education in the state budget produced by the Tennessee legislature.

Don't get all these fuzzy feeling about getting a $4,000 check because your tuition probably went up by the same amount. AGAIN --- Net gain zero!

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Study flunks 49 states in college affordability...

(12-03) 03:36 PST (AP) --

An independent report on American higher education flunks all but one state when it comes to affordability — an embarrassing verdict that is unlikely to improve as the economy contracts.

The biennial study by the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education, which evaluates how well higher education is serving the public, handed out Fs for affordability to 49 states, up from 43 two years ago. Only California received a passing grade in the category, a C, thanks to its relatively inexpensive community colleges.

The report card uses a range of measurements to give states grades, from A to F, on the performance of their public and private colleges. The affordability grade is based on how much of the average family's income it costs to go to college.

Almost everywhere, that figure is up, according to the survey. Only two states — New York and Tennessee — have made even minimal improvements since 2000, but they're still considered to be failing. Everywhere else, families must fork over a greater percentage of their income to pay for college. In Illinois, the average cost attending a public four-year college has jumped from 19 percent of family's income in 1999-2000 to 35 percent in 2007-2008, and in Pennsylvania, from 29 percent to 41 percent.

Low-income families have been hardest hit. Nationally, enrollment at a local public college costs families in the top fifth of income just 9 percent of their earnings, while families from the bottom fifth pay 55 percent — up from 39 percent in 1999-2000.

And that's after accounting for financial aid, which is increasingly being used to lure high-achieving students who boost a school's reputation, but who don't need help to go to college.

The problem seems likely to worsen as the economy does, said Patrick Callan, the center's president.

Historically during downturns, "states make disproportionate cuts in higher education and, in return for the colleges taking them gracefully, allow them to raise tuition," Callan said. "If we handle this recession like we've handled others, we will see that this gets worse."

Scott Cristal of Columbia, Mo., said he wasn't surprised by the study's findings. Cristal, who has sent two daughters to college and has another two yet to pay for, said that he is trying to expand his business to help pay the tuition bills, but that it's been hard because of the slowing economy.

"We're going to play it by ear, be optimistic, hope for the best and just ride it out as best we can," Cristal said. "I think that's what everybody in America's doing right now."

States fared modestly better in other categories such as participation, where no state failed and about half the states earned As or Bs — comparable to the report two years ago. One reason for the uptick is that more students are taking rigorous college-prep courses, the study found. In Texas, for instance, the percentage of high schoolers taking at least one upper-level science course has nearly tripled from 20 percent to 56 percent.

But better preparation for college hasn't translated into better enrollment or completion, with only two states — Arizona and Iowa — receiving an A for participation in higher education.

And the discrepancy in enrollment between states is still great: Forty-four percent of young Iowans are in college, while just 18 percent of their counterparts in Alaska — one of three states to get an F in the category — are enrolled.

Callan said the United States is at best standing still while other countries pass it in areas like college enrollment and completion. And as higher education fails to keep up with population growth, the specter lurks of new generations less educated than their Baby Boomer predecessors.

"The educational strength of the American population is in the group that's about to retire," Callan said. "In the rest of the world it's the group that's gone to college since 1990."

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With all the tech advances I would suspect we may see a quantum leap in online colleges. It would be a shame to see the campus experience diminished but I can see this as a result of the hige cost of college infa structure.

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quote:

"The educational strength of the American population is in the group that's about to retire," Callan said. "In the rest of the world it's the group that's gone to college since 1990."

Wow... that's scarey!


cadDAD


"No one ever says, 'It's only a game' when their team is winning."

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Some may want to consider a Canadian University. Tuition is usually around $5000. per year and right now there is a 25% discount. There were many Americans at my college in Halifax Nova Scotia. There are some great colleges like U of British Columbia, Waterloo, U of Tornto, Mcguill and many others. Microsoft hires most of the Tech grads from Waterloo. Many of my friends in college were from Maine and the New England states.

An interesting chart. I contribute the increase in costs to the lack of a football playoff system. Academic groups have been able to raise costs in the dark as everyone else argues about the BCS rankings.

rising college costs..........

kind of makes you ponder........like when gas hit $4.00 a gallon......consumption went down.........and so with rising tuition, at what tuition price point do applications for admissions decrease ? what will be the response from colleges......will they then discount tuition in an attempt to increase the numbers of those making application for admission? will some of the colleges discuss merging?

Understand that those charts track asking prices. Colleges are classic practitioners of price discrimination. First they raise the prices, then they give out more and more financial aid. The objective is to soak the rich folks, as opposed to leaving money on the table.

Between aid and in-state options, the real rate of increase is bad, but not as bad as some would have you believe.