Canseco calls out McGwire

Canseco has also stated he is very sorry that he wrote his book but yet still continues to make comment.
He didn't do what he did to make the game better, he did it to make some bucks, so in some ways, he's just as bad as the ones he wrote about. JMO.

As this picture just rolls along note that Canseco keeps changing info he had in his first book---and do you trust a guy who tried to run down his wife on a Miami street---the man is a proven liar---does he have another book coming????

And for those of you who might of missed it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4819250

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Originally posted by TRhit:
the man is a proven liar

Ok, prove it.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
....He didn't do what he did to make the game better, he did it to make some bucks, so in some ways, he's just as bad as the ones he wrote about. JMO.

Is the war on steroids better off because Canseco came "out"?

Sometimes you have to take two steps backward in order to move ahead. Yes, Conseco is guilty of many moral crimes but if he opened the eyes of one young man or one coach that changed his approach to the steroid issue I would call it a small win within the "big issue". America is all about taking advantage of situations for your own profit. Those that get ahead understand it, those who are satisfied maintaining their way of life, might have problems with it. Conseco is one of a long line of "whistle blowers" in a multitude of genres throughout American society and only time will tell if it was for the "good of all". In the the mean time he's a schmuck in the eyes of many who's making a dollar off this mistakes and that is an issue he has to live with.

Not 1 dollar of MINE has gone to his wallet

What would you have done with the same opportunity?

Of course he wrote the book to make money. And McGwire did his interview for personal gain as well. Not because he believed it was the right thing to do.

Bonds , McGwire , Palmiero , Clemens , Sosa etc etc ......... all liars. Whats new?

I want to hear what Canseco says because I know everytime he speaks there is another cheater out there squirming in his chair.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
I want to hear what Canseco says because I know everytime he speaks there is another cheater out there squirming in his chair.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
....He didn't do what he did to make the game better, he did it to make some bucks, so in some ways, he's just as bad as the ones he wrote about. JMO.

Is the war on steroids better off because Canseco came "out"?

Sometimes you have to take two steps backward in order to move ahead. Yes, Conseco is guilty of many moral crimes but if he opened the eyes of one young man or one coach that changed his approach to the steroid issue I would call it a small win within the "big issue". America is all about taking advantage of situations for your own profit. Those that get ahead understand it, those who are satisfied maintaining their way of life, might have problems with it. Conseco is one of a long line of "whistle blowers" in a multitude of genres throughout American society and only time will tell if it was for the good of it all. In the the mean time he's a schmuck in the eyes of many who's making a dollar off this mistakes and that is an issue he has to live with.

What would you have done with the same opportunity?

rz, I agree that his book has changed the playing field, drastically. But he didn't do it to make the game better, he did it for lost opportunity and needed the money, he's stated he's sorry that he wrote it, has lost favor within his fraternity, but if you are sorry why do you keep going talking about it, he's made his point hasn't he?

I am not saying that he has lied, but that's my opinion of Canseco.

When Canseco first came out with his revelations - just about everyone said he was lying - and exaggerating.

Noone is saying that anymore.

Actually - he may have underestimated the number of liars and cheaters in the game. LOL

Also - keep in mind - most of these liars and cheaters also broke the law.

i watched his interview on the mlb channel. if he could have back pedaled that good when he played, he'd have caught that fly in his glove instead of off his head.

Because everytime another guy comes out of the closet and lies Jose feels the need to be heard. When Mark comes out and "comes clean" and Jose knows he full of it Jose wants others to know it.

Jose talks about suffering more than Mark will ever know. He wants other people to suffer just like he has. When he says "You know you are being looked after Mark." He is saying I wasnt looked after so you shouldnt be either so I am going to set the record straight.

Misery loves company. Jose wants everyone to know he wasnt the only one. He wants everyone to know that he was not alone in all of this. Jose did this for money. And he also did it because he wanted some kind of vindication as well. He wanted everyone to know he is not the only poster child for steroid use in MLB.

He told us about Clemens and people scoffed at him. He told us about many players and people laughed at him. He was the only person telling the truth about this. And he might still be.

Canseco - along with the rest of the liars and cheaters - all belong together. Its a perfect union of slimebags IMO.

They all deserve each other. LOL

Gamer , yes they do. They deserve each other.

Actually I have more respect for Jose than the others. At least when he came clean he actually came clean.

Would we condemn the Wall Street inside trader who lost it all and outed his colleagues in a book about insider trading.

Would we condemn the expelled blue chip athlete who wrote a tell-all book about slimy recruiting tactics and named those involved.

The only difference is the reveered statistics that our heros of the past put up. We now have a self perceived vested interest.

The real question is...

What would you have done, walking in Consecos shoes, having the same financial issues, with the same opportunity, and NOT knowing the repercussions as we know them today?

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Would we condemn the Wall Street inside trader who lost it all and outed his colleagues in a book about insider trading.

Would we condemn the expelled blue chip athlete who wrote a tell-all book about slimy recruiting tactics and named those involved.

The only difference is the reveered statistics that our heros of the past put up. We now have a self perceived vested interest.

The real question is...

What would you have done, walking in Consecos shoes, having the same financial issues, with the same opportunity, and NOT knowing the repercussions as we know them today?

I think you nailed it there. I don't like the guy but his book did more to rid the game of steroids than Bud Selig and the player's union combined.

What a cesspool of humanity that is part of our game.

Because Jose Canseco is the only bum I choose to believe in this mess, by inference McGuire, LaRussa, et all are guilty of lying through their teeth while still getting paid handsomely.

We need the list of the 103 to become part of the public record.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
When Jose first came out and started talking about steroids everyone thought he was lying.

I never thought Canseco was lying. I thought everyone else was.

And you'll never convince me the ball wasn't juiced, too.

Many people suspected that steroids were used throughout baseball with Balco and other stories. So when Canseco came out with his book I tended to believe him. I'm glad he has been proven right.

All these other guys were hiding behind each other calling Canseco a liar so IMO they have all been exposed as liars and cheaters and it has ultimately helped the game.

No portion of MLB is innocent in this mess called the steroid era. Canseco's book became the beginning of the end of the era regardless of his reasons for writing the book.

Steroid use in sports, particularly the Olympic Games, has been known and a problem since at least the 1950's.

MLB must have played dumb for over 40 years.

Who has done more to improve the game of baseball than Jose Canseco?

5 years down the road that could be an interesting question, but, the dust has to settle first, and then the "dirt" has to be swept up.

Umm, what's all this talk about steroids???

My friends and I sit around and talk about Mark McGwire's home runs he hit in LL and Legion.

We now know that Canseco’s book has proven to be truthful on many accounts. We do not know if it was truthful in every case. Before considering Jose for sainthood, perhaps we should consider the man himself.

We have all seen friends, coworkers and teammates who have done things that they would like to keep a secret. In many cases a caring person would try to help that person.

In this case, Jose sold out his former teammates. Jose was well known as one of the biggest abusers of all. He has gone on record as trying to introduce teammates to steroids. He has even admitted to sticking the needle in them. He not only “cheated” he helped many others to cheat. He has openly promoted that steroids can be a good thing. Then he wrote a book that he knew would end up ruining their lives. Is it possible that Jose conveniently left off some names in his book? Maybe he actually had some teammates he didn’t want to ruin?

At the time when most of this happened it was not against any MLB rule. Yes, it was illegal in the outside world, but MLB doesn’t always operate exactly like the outside world.

Those who claim Jose is the only one being totally honest should ask this question… How much would “you” trust him? Did he do all of this to better the game? Would you want him on your team? Isn’t he also one of the “cheaters”, maybe the biggest cheater of all? Does he really feel sorry that he wrote that book and ruined all these guys when he continues to go on national television to continue his “truthfulness”?

Please don’t take any of this in the wrong way. I’m very happy that this has been addressed. Without Jose’s book we might still be in this era. Anyone really believe that MLB didn’t know what was going on in the clubhouses? Did they even act as though they were suspicious? This was common knowledge in other sports and even in the Olympics. Why did baseball look the other way? Also, why is baseball taking the most flack on this issue when 300 pound lineman are as fast as the running backs used to be?

As in other drug related issues, the number one goal should be to find the suppliers who made millions. Of course, that isn’t as newsworthy as exposing the players who in my mind became the victims. This is an extremely competitive field and there is a lot of money at stake. People have been cheating the system since the very beginning. In fact, my hat goes off to all those who have stayed clean in this environment. Those are the ones who deserve our praise. Now, if we only knew who they were for sure! If Jose didn’t mention them were they clean? Did he know about every single one of them?

There is lots of blame to throw around out there. We seem to concentrate on the players because they are the ones we are familiar with. In most cases we try to help those who use drugs. We try to get them to recover and get back to normal. The government has spent a fortune in this area. Yet, those who have used steroids to be a stronger, healthier, better athlete are scorned for ever as cheaters rather than victims of the system that made all of this possible. Many are to blame! Many profited greatly while looking the other way!

So even though Canseco has played a part in helping to clean up the game. Did he do it for the right reason? He will always be a scumbag in my estimation and doesn’t deserve any praise. Is he telling “all” the truth? Who knows, I find it very hard to “trust” a person who would sell out his friends and teammates. And remember, he was one of the biggest cheaters of all! Why would anyone think he is now this honest truthful guy?

Was Canseco going broke when he wrote his book?

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
In this case, Jose sold out his former teammates.

Only the cheaters. Only the ones that kept non-cheaters out of the game. The players that didn't use steroids had nothing to worry about from Canseco.

As one player said yesterday in an interview "what goes on in the locker room stays in the locker room"---Canseco violated this unwritten rule and this is why he has problems with fellow players who now have no use for him.

I am with PG Staff---why would you trust Canseco as a viable witness--even today his stories continues to change---how much of what he says is actually the truth ???

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
In this case, Jose sold out his former teammates.

Only the cheaters. Only the ones that kept non-cheaters out of the game. The players that didn't use steroids had nothing to worry about from Canseco.

I think PG's point is that we don't know that he sold out everyone. Are there other's he knew about that he didn't sell out?

Also, he was a "cheater" as well. Why is he to be trusted any more than anyone else? Did he make up some of what he says happened simply to make his book more interesting and sell more copies? I also don't think EVERYTHING he said can be trusted.

I don't know about you guys (and gals), but the video posted of him earlier in this thread gave me the creeps.

My favorites are the ones like Pettit who said they only did it a couple times and didn't like it. There were others too that I can't remember. That way they come "clean" by thinking they are telling the truth but actually lying at the same time.

By doing that though, they have kept themselves out of the fray because it seems only the ones that didn't admit the wrong are the ones paying for it long term.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
As one player said yesterday in an interview "what goes on in the locker room stays in the locker room"

Is that an accepted absolute? Does it cover illegal actitvity? Gambling? Guns? Drugs?

I would guess this originally concerned private conversations, gripes, discussions about girl friends that players preferred their wives didn't know about and fights among the players or players and coaches.

PG is correct. Lets not forget that he "wrote" the book only after no other team wanted him and he felt "Black Balled" from baseball.
As was said before, by TR "what happens in the locker room, stays in the locker room".
Football was being over run with steroids for years and no one wrote about it, even after Lyle Alzaido (sic) died. I don't remember anyone writing a book and listing names.

So BB would be better off if he hadn't written the book, right?

quote:

Originally posted by baseballregie:
So BB would be better off if he hadn't written the book, right?

It shouldn't have come down to Canseco. Baseball would have been better off if Selig and the owners hadn't turned a blind eye to the situation when it was obvious in the 90's. Then again, other then purists how many people really care?

quote:

Originally posted by baseballregie:
So BB would be better off if he hadn't written the book, right?

As a history and civics teacher, I have seen that getting to the truth is often a messy affair. But we are most often better for it.

quote:

So BB would be better off if he hadn't written the book, right?

No one is saying that at all! I just don't see him as some honest do gooder who can be "trusted" and who only cares about the game. I actually see him as a snake who had no problem selling out his teammates. His book has actually helped baseball, but I just don't think that was his motive.

PG asks some great questions and I also think everyone questions the Conseco story authenticity. But, even if a "dirty rotten scoundrel" cracks the door open, isn't it better than the door not being opened at all?

The door had to be opened by one of the accused or there would be no validity to the accusations. Regardless of which of the 100+ players on the "list" opened their mouth, the same questions would have to be asked about their agenda.

Of the accused so far, which one would you accept as a "tell-all" book with the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

IMHO, I would have the same suspicions with every one of them.

You don't have to like, respect, or believe Conseco, but, I think as baseball fans we have to have some satisfaction that the ball is starting to roll. As I stated earlier not 1 dollar of mine has gone into Jose's pocket, but I am better off not being completely out in the dark.

lol, I feel like I'm watching Mob Wars, or something, with all this omerta stuff.

Sure he's a snake. No, I don't trust him. Yes, he's been correct often enough that it is worth checking what he says for veracity.

Personally, I tend to believe him more than McGwire, but I don't think he actually said anything that specific at this point.

quote:

toolforthis quote:
Football was being over run with steroids for years and no one wrote about it, even after Lyle Alzaido (sic) died. I don't remember anyone writing a book and listing names

Steroids were not affecting the sacred record book in Football, it became a medical issue that not many really cared to read about.

quote:

RJM quote:
Then again, other then purists how many people really care?

Hard to swallow, but a great question

quote:

jimmy03 quote:
As a history and civics teacher, I have seen that getting to the truth is often a messy affair. But we are most often better for it.

The good stuff is always buried

The problem is the door should have been opened long before the book came out. MLB knew what was going on, they chose to keep the door to the public closed. The door on the other end of the room leading to the baseball community was always open. Canseco wrote his book to make money on something he helped create. MLB is the one who should have done something.

This includes the people who sit on ESPN (including HOF voting sports writers) and talk about how bad these guys are for the game and will never vote them in. If they felt that way, why would they not have made a bigger deal about it when it was happening? Hypocritical all the way around.