Catcher Error?

in my mind yes

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Two outs, runner on third. Dropped third strike. Catcher doesn't make a play on the batter and rolls the ball to the mound. Batter safe at first, runner on third scores.

Shouldn't this be an error on the catcher?

Depends. Did the runner score because of the dropped 3rd strike, or an errant throw?

When I see questions like that, I always want more information because I didn’t see the play.

Did the ball touch the dirt prior to reaching the catcher?

Be more specific than “rolls the ball to the mound”. Are you saying he didn’t get the ball there in the air, or that he actually rolled it like a bowling ball?

Assuming the runner didn’t try to score on the pitch, but because of a throw, you have to figger out whether he’d have been put out or wouldn’t have tried to advance if the throw was a good one. Its easy to do when its something like a runner from 2nd steals 3rd, and scores when the throw goes into left field. Someone’s gonna get an error.

But things start getting screwy when you’re talking about pitchers and catchers not catching ball or making bad throws. FI, let’s say a runner tries to steal 2nd, and the throw skips to f4 or he drops the throw. Its extremely unlikely that any scorer who knows much about the game would charge an error.

So much depends on the timing of what happened, its difficult to state unequivocally that it would have been scored a certain way.

I assume you mean the catcher roles it out to the mound because he believes the batter to be out on strikes, thus making the third out. When the batter runs down to first because the ball was dropped by the catcher and the runner scores from third, then the error should be assigned to the catcher and the run would not be earned.

That is exactly what I meant.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
That is exactly what I meant.

I wish you’d have said that because that makes it easy as pie.

OBR – 10.12(a)(1) Comment

The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors unless a specific rule prescribes otherwise. A fielder’s mental mistake that leads to a physical misplay—such as throwing the ball into the stands or rolling the ball to the pitcher’s mound, mistakenly believing there to be three outs, and thereby allowing a runner or runners to advance—shall not be considered a mental mistake for purposes of this rule and the official scorer shall charge a fielder committing such a mistake with an error.

I'm not sure I understand why there is clarification for "mental mistakes." If there is no runner-advancement then who cares?

As I understand this rule a better example might be something like 1st and third two out and a grounder to short. The SS picks up the ball and looks to 2nd for the force but the 2B doesn't cover the bag. The SS ends up eating the ball and all runners advance. This would not be an error by this definition of the rules.

Okay, that example makes sense.

I've always thought there should be a "team" error. That example would fit there.

Or when three fielders all run up to a fly ball and let it drop. Can't give the error to just one of them so let's call it a "team error."

Also slow play is not considered an error.

My son and I have been in a lengthy debate this very night about our opponent's lead off hitter hitting a 'routine' ground ball to short, the SS let the ball take an extra hop before throwing to first and the runner beat it for a hit (in my book).

This little nuiance was the difference between no earned runs and one earned run in an inning when the opponents scored five.

I ended the argument by saying the pitchers job is to get outs, bail out his teammates and not complain about earned runs. On some plain, if the offense scores them, they earned them.

The pitcher's job is to prevent them. If his defense gives up a base runner, he should do something to prevent that base runner from scoring. That's his job.