im just wondering about the ruling of catcher interference... is it when the catchers glove touches the bat... is it still interferece if the batter loops his swing late and hits the catchers golve on pu
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If the batter swinging in the box hits the catcher's glove, it is interference and counts as an error. Batter take your base.
The swing style of the batter does not matter.
If the umpire truly thought it was done on purpose, he may have some options under travesty of the game but I'll leave that to the real umpires to answer......
The swing style of the batter does not matter.
If the umpire truly thought it was done on purpose, he may have some options under travesty of the game but I'll leave that to the real umpires to answer......
I dont think Batters interference counts as an error....or as a time at bat. I think you note Interference......the pros will clarify.
Catcher interference:
- Batter is awarded first base and is not charged with an official at-bat.
- Catcher is charged with an error.
- Batter is awarded first base and is not charged with an official at-bat.
- Catcher is charged with an error.
Bear
LOL....Not doubting your clarification but this happened to us years ago in a hs playoff game.
Our opponents interfered twice that night on the same batter and the next day the box score had given our player both the times at bat(2) and hits(2)! So I went to my trusty Jack Combs book, revised by Michigan Coach Danny Litwhiler.
It says:
Catcher's Interference with batter:
Catcher's Interference with the batter is neither a time at bat nor an error for the catcher. Simply carry two asterisks and an extra line in the box score thus:
* Smith, lf
*Awarded first base on catchers interference
So I have believed this to be true ever since.
LOL....Not doubting your clarification but this happened to us years ago in a hs playoff game.
Our opponents interfered twice that night on the same batter and the next day the box score had given our player both the times at bat(2) and hits(2)! So I went to my trusty Jack Combs book, revised by Michigan Coach Danny Litwhiler.
It says:
Catcher's Interference with batter:
Catcher's Interference with the batter is neither a time at bat nor an error for the catcher. Simply carry two asterisks and an extra line in the box score thus:
* Smith, lf
*Awarded first base on catchers interference
So I have believed this to be true ever since.
thanks
Since we're on the topic of interference....
Runner at 2b and 3b. Ball hit to SS. Runner clips SS on his way to 3b, as SS is going to field the ball. SS stays with the play and throws the batter out at 1b. Runner at 3b scores.
Now, I believe this is a delayed dead ball, the runner going to 3b is out, and the play continues and if the SS throws out the runner at 1b, he is out too.
The umps converged, talked and decided....runner at 3b doesn't score, goes back to 3b. Runner at 2b going to 3b is OUT. Batter gets awarded 1b. We basically talked the ump into giving the hitter 1b (hee hee) even though I believe he should have been out.
ANYWAY.....what is the scoring decision on the hitter? Does he get no at bat, no error, no hit as with a C's interference. An assistant said the hitter gets a hit; this doesn't sound right to me. What does anyone think?
Runner at 2b and 3b. Ball hit to SS. Runner clips SS on his way to 3b, as SS is going to field the ball. SS stays with the play and throws the batter out at 1b. Runner at 3b scores.
Now, I believe this is a delayed dead ball, the runner going to 3b is out, and the play continues and if the SS throws out the runner at 1b, he is out too.
The umps converged, talked and decided....runner at 3b doesn't score, goes back to 3b. Runner at 2b going to 3b is OUT. Batter gets awarded 1b. We basically talked the ump into giving the hitter 1b (hee hee) even though I believe he should have been out.
ANYWAY.....what is the scoring decision on the hitter? Does he get no at bat, no error, no hit as with a C's interference. An assistant said the hitter gets a hit; this doesn't sound right to me. What does anyone think?
TCB1
Interference calls by umpires judgment are at times difficult at best. Why?
1) The umpire must understand the definition.
2) Understanding the rule definition can be misinterpreted. [The definition as stated in Rule 2.00 is: "(a) Offensive interference is an act by the team at bat which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses........
(thus leaves a rather wide latitude)
3) Offensive Interference must be recognized by umpire immediately.
4) Should Offensive Interference be called, the proper penalty should be applied.
-------------------------
I did not read nor did you state the umpire called interference.
If no interference was called (or was lifted), the batter-baserunner is declared out! (since SS fielded ball, made the out at 1b), had no intent of making a play on R3 or R1, and their is interference, if called, is lifted, since in umpires judgement, SS was NOT "obstructed, impeded, hindered or confused".
If umpire judged R2 for offensive interference, and umpire judged SS was "obstructed, impeded, hindered or confused" and was making a play on R3 (or R2), then a proper penalty is R2 out, batter-baserunner may be decared out and if zero outs at start of play, R3 does not score and returns to 3b.
The more common occurance for offensive interference and at amateur play is typically when R1 advancing to 2b and attempts to "break up potential double play and overslides 2b, pops up slides, rolls and interferes. Thus R1 is declared "obstructed, impeded, hindered or confused", ball is dead, R1 is declared out, AND batter-baseruuner declared out. R2 and R3 return return to the last base that was, in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the offensive interference.
As far as your assistant's interpretation, he may be applying the penalty for offensive interference when R1/R2/R3 getting hit by ball off bat (typically from ground ball), thus in umpire's judgement, the offense interfered, and runner is declared out, ball is dead, and batter-baserunner awarded 1b, and credited with time at bat.
Regards
Bear
Interference calls by umpires judgment are at times difficult at best. Why?
1) The umpire must understand the definition.
2) Understanding the rule definition can be misinterpreted. [The definition as stated in Rule 2.00 is: "(a) Offensive interference is an act by the team at bat which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses........
(thus leaves a rather wide latitude)
3) Offensive Interference must be recognized by umpire immediately.
4) Should Offensive Interference be called, the proper penalty should be applied.
-------------------------
I did not read nor did you state the umpire called interference.
If no interference was called (or was lifted), the batter-baserunner is declared out! (since SS fielded ball, made the out at 1b), had no intent of making a play on R3 or R1, and their is interference, if called, is lifted, since in umpires judgement, SS was NOT "obstructed, impeded, hindered or confused".
If umpire judged R2 for offensive interference, and umpire judged SS was "obstructed, impeded, hindered or confused" and was making a play on R3 (or R2), then a proper penalty is R2 out, batter-baserunner may be decared out and if zero outs at start of play, R3 does not score and returns to 3b.
The more common occurance for offensive interference and at amateur play is typically when R1 advancing to 2b and attempts to "break up potential double play and overslides 2b, pops up slides, rolls and interferes. Thus R1 is declared "obstructed, impeded, hindered or confused", ball is dead, R1 is declared out, AND batter-baseruuner declared out. R2 and R3 return return to the last base that was, in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the offensive interference.
As far as your assistant's interpretation, he may be applying the penalty for offensive interference when R1/R2/R3 getting hit by ball off bat (typically from ground ball), thus in umpire's judgement, the offense interfered, and runner is declared out, ball is dead, and batter-baserunner awarded 1b, and credited with time at bat.
Regards
Bear
Obviously, the real umpires will be able to give a more definitive answer on what the ruling should have been, but based on what I know and have read, what the umpires ruled in your game is exactly what should have happened!
I am making an assumption that the umpires ruled that the baserunner interfered with the fielder (it sounds like this was called, although it was not actually stated in your post). According to what I read in the rule book, when a baserunner interferes with a fielder, the ball is dead, all runners return to their previous bases, the baserunner who committed the interference is called out, and the batter is safe at first base (the batter being awarded first base may also force baserunners to advance after returning to their bases). Interference by a runner, or a batted ball hitting an umpire, results in a "dead ball" (OBR 5.09f; NCAA 6-2e, f, g; FED 5-1-1f), not a "delayed dead ball". (I believe you're thinking of obstruction by the defensive team, resulting in a "delayed dead ball")
As for how to score the batter reaching first base, it depends on the rule book!
Under pro and high school rules, the scorer's judgment comes into play. If the scorer believes that the batter could not have been put out by "ordinary effort", the batter should be credited with a base hit. If the scorer believes that the batter would have been put out by "ordinary effort", then the batter cannot be credited with a base hit (this is written directly under OBR 10.06e). Note the FED rule book does not specifically give this example. However, the way that the HS rules are written, I can only infer that the scorer's judgment is used (the rule book does not specifically state how to score the play if a baserunner is called out for interfering with a fielder, so I can only assume that the scorer still judges whether or not the fielder could have put the batter out).
Under NCAA rules, the batter is credited with a hit, no matter what the scorer thinks (NCAA 10-4-b; 6-2-e, f).
I believe that your assistant's confusion over awarding the batter a base hit stems from either the fact that if the batted ball had hit the baserunner, everything would be the same (runner is out, all other runners return to their bases), EXCEPT the batter would be credited with a base hit (OBR 10.05e; FED 9-3-1b; NCAA 10-4-e)! ...or else your assistant is very well versed in the college rule book!!! (since this play would be a base hit in all circumstances under NCAA rules)
So, what does this all mean? Well, you asked what the scoring decision should be on the hitter. If you are using the college rule book, it is an At Bat, and a Base Hit. If you are using pro or high school rules, then it is up the scorer as to whether the batter would have been put out if the interference had not occurred. Based on your description, the batter obviously would have been put out, so you should NOT score it as a base hit. Instead the batter receives an At Bat, reaching first base on a Fielder's Choice.
I am making an assumption that the umpires ruled that the baserunner interfered with the fielder (it sounds like this was called, although it was not actually stated in your post). According to what I read in the rule book, when a baserunner interferes with a fielder, the ball is dead, all runners return to their previous bases, the baserunner who committed the interference is called out, and the batter is safe at first base (the batter being awarded first base may also force baserunners to advance after returning to their bases). Interference by a runner, or a batted ball hitting an umpire, results in a "dead ball" (OBR 5.09f; NCAA 6-2e, f, g; FED 5-1-1f), not a "delayed dead ball". (I believe you're thinking of obstruction by the defensive team, resulting in a "delayed dead ball")
As for how to score the batter reaching first base, it depends on the rule book!
Under pro and high school rules, the scorer's judgment comes into play. If the scorer believes that the batter could not have been put out by "ordinary effort", the batter should be credited with a base hit. If the scorer believes that the batter would have been put out by "ordinary effort", then the batter cannot be credited with a base hit (this is written directly under OBR 10.06e). Note the FED rule book does not specifically give this example. However, the way that the HS rules are written, I can only infer that the scorer's judgment is used (the rule book does not specifically state how to score the play if a baserunner is called out for interfering with a fielder, so I can only assume that the scorer still judges whether or not the fielder could have put the batter out).
Under NCAA rules, the batter is credited with a hit, no matter what the scorer thinks (NCAA 10-4-b; 6-2-e, f).
I believe that your assistant's confusion over awarding the batter a base hit stems from either the fact that if the batted ball had hit the baserunner, everything would be the same (runner is out, all other runners return to their bases), EXCEPT the batter would be credited with a base hit (OBR 10.05e; FED 9-3-1b; NCAA 10-4-e)! ...or else your assistant is very well versed in the college rule book!!! (since this play would be a base hit in all circumstances under NCAA rules)
So, what does this all mean? Well, you asked what the scoring decision should be on the hitter. If you are using the college rule book, it is an At Bat, and a Base Hit. If you are using pro or high school rules, then it is up the scorer as to whether the batter would have been put out if the interference had not occurred. Based on your description, the batter obviously would have been put out, so you should NOT score it as a base hit. Instead the batter receives an At Bat, reaching first base on a Fielder's Choice.