Catcher Pitching and Vice Versa

Well, here at SEMO we have a multiple-time All-American who is up for the Lowes Senior Class Award that is the starting catcher and also pitches as well as occasionally plays third base....

MILT... That's a really good question. For GUN, he began to refine his catching skills the summer before his freshman year. He was a starting pitcher too. Unfortunately, the hand position and arm action as a catcher is very different from a pitcher. Quality pitcher's have a long, deliberate (bow-efffect) arm action, which does not equate to a catcher's arm motion.

Gun still throws, in short relief, never as a starter. But, its very dangerous to combine the two positions. Look at it from a simple point of view. We track pitch counts for the pitcher, but the catcher throws just as many balls back to the mound. Then add the catcher into the rotation, and now you potentially have a serious problem of over use.

Plus, one other point... Not many teams have two legit #1 catchers. So, in effect, you have now put two players on the field at less than optimum circumstances.

I'm not saying a secondary position is not important, especially if he can hit! GUN plays 2Base and both corners. I just don't like C and P.

Just my .02 cents, hope it helps. GED10DaD

Thanks GED10 and Bulldog19 for your thoughts.

Milt,

It probebely to early to tell, however, depending upon his velocity you might be able to lean in one direction or the other.... i.e. if he's throwing 75 his best chance for moving on is behind the plate. If he's throwing 95 you have gold and should get him out from behind the plate!

And who knows where his velocity will top out, however if he is currently below 80 theres a lot of improvement needed to play beyond HS or JC as a pitcher.

Thanks CP - Fastball is currently around 80. Much faster than I ever was so no way of knowing what ceiling might be. I've always felt that behind the plate will be his ticket to playing time in college. Just not sure if the pitching is hurting his catching development and potential.

My son is 2012 who catches and pitches. He is a very good catcher and developing as a pitcher. On the hill he is 80-82. Behind the plate, he threw a 1.93 this past weekend. As I've told him, it all depends on how hard you want work at it. He works very hard at both, especially the arm action at both positions.

I think doing both can only help him.

IMHO, catchers benefit from catching as many innings as it is a position which requires the development of a lot of skills which practice just doesn't cover. If you are pitching, you aren't catching. So I would think you'd have to be a pretty special catcher to give up time behind the plate and not lose ground on the competition. I'm not talking about throws to second, but all the other aspects of the position.

I could be influenced by the fact that TwoTex Jr has only caught for a couple of years, and I'm still seeing him refine and improve his skills. Plus, every pitcher he catches is teaching him something about reading pitches. Same with calling pitches.

For my son, saying that he is a catcher is more than describing his position - it is who he is on the field.

Not to say that there aren't success stories of those who pitch and catch. I'm sure there are.

Son caught and pitched in high school and college. Was recruited by colleges at both positions. Not sure the "different arm motions hinders development" is very valid argument. I never saw any real problems other than being over used and fatigue. Being a two way player does open more doors but it also has it's down side. the player should understand the vast majority of high school "two way players" become "one way players" in college. So if your son can focus on one it would help him ----- but the coaches do make the call as to what position they will play.
I remember my son calling me when he was a sophomore in college and told me the coach had asked him to be a starting pitcher when the conference games began. I suggested he talk to the coach and "explain" he had signed him as a catcher and had told him during the recruiting phase that he wouldn't have to pitch ... My son told me: "That's not an option" ... I asked what he was going to do? He said --- "pitch".
New coach came in the next year and allowed him to get back behind the plate his junior year.

I disagree with needing to catch games to improve. My son caught bullpens for college guys while he was 12-14 and played mostly CF on his travel team. IMO, it made him better. Of course, he worked his butt off but I believe the CF play helped his arm strength and he didn't lose anything behind the plate.

Big thing to consider in my opinion, is how is he as a hitter. If he is an outstanding hitter, well yeah, it might make sense to keep him behind the plate. However, if the hitting isn't a strong point, pitching may be a better option, especially since he is the sophomore ace, he must be pretty good there.

Redbird, is the son who played CF the 2012? If so, I'm wondering if the full story has played out yet. If you have a son catching in college who didn't catch in high school, then I tip my hat to one very special player who was able to make it to the next level without game time catching on varsity.

quote:

Big thing to consider in my opinion, is how is he as a hitter. If he is an outstanding hitter, well yeah, it might make sense to keep him behind the plate. However, if the hitting isn't a strong point, pitching may be a better option, especially since he is the sophomore ace, he must be pretty good there.

Great point!

twotex,

He is a 2012. He's only caught 2-3 games this year with a senior behind the plate and his pop time has gone from a 2.05 into the 1.9's.

I think there needs to be SOME time behind the dish in games but he doesn't need to spend 100% of the time there. JMO

I do not feel like it will hinder a player's chances to continue their career as a baseball player.

I have been fortunate enough to have 3 players that did both (catch and pitch)in hs and went on to play pro ball (2 in minors and 1 in MLB). Two went as catchers and one as a pitcher. It did not slow down their careers at all.

We did have to pay close attention and take care of arm use, but that was different for each player. We had two that could pitch 5 innings and catch final two behind the plate or vise/versa. We had one that could not (or would not) throw at all if he pitched more than a couple of innings.

That's a great pop time. For sure we can agree they don't need to catch every game, and that bull pen work is great practice, especially if the player has the self-discipline to block and work from both stances during bull pen sessions.

Where I'm seeing improvement with my son with signficant game time is in the development of mental stamina, fielding (bunts, pop ups), back picks, throws to second and third, blocking (harder in a close championship game with the bases loaded), handling 30 blocks in a game because for some reason none of 4 pitchers can hit the mitt, put outs (tags) at home plate. He is fortunate in that his last two coaches have allowed him to call all the pitches in games, so he's learned a lot there. He is much more consistent (and confident) in all aspects of the position - great throws back to the pitcher (a pet peeve of mine), running hard and at the correct angle down the first base line to back up plays, handling of pitchers and leadership on the field in general.

I didn't know much about catching until he decided to give it a try, and boy, am I impressed with how much there is to it.

Good luck to your son. Sounds like he has great skills and will do well in many positions.

Thanks for the great insight from all responders. 2012 loves catching and really enjoys pitching as well. I'm very fortunate that my 2012 has the HS coaching staff he has (high level of trust in them). Should be fun to sit back and watch the development over the remainder of his HS career.

I would also agree with some others if your son plays catcher, he needs to hit. A good catcher won't play much in college if he can't hit. Just look at all the "top college catcher" or draft pick lists you see, the authors all refer to the catchers batting ability and little else.

My favorite "top catcher" lists include disclaimers such as "may need to move to another position to advance"

This is a great thread that I struggle with every day! My 2011 is getting D1 looks for his catching skills, including a recent 1.93 pop time. However, the HS team has limited pitching and may need to throw son as they approach playoffs and definitely next season. You want son to be a team player, but arm/shoulder injuries and fatigue are a major concern.

Danny Wheat, a trainer that worked with the Texas Rangers and TCU, told us at a clinic that he really pushed for kids that play on the left side of the infield and that catch to avoid pitching for the sake of their arm. We try not to have kids play these positions and pitch. OF is an option as well as 1B. There are just too many throws to make during practice and games from the left side of the infield and obviously behind the plate.

Update on Milt 2012 - moved to Varsity halfway through season and has been starting catcher ever since. Pop time between 1.95 and 2.0. Threw out well over 50% of runners that tried to steal against him. Needs to get stronger and work on taking command of the field (quiet kid) but has done remarkably well defensively especially blocking balls in dirt. Still making the adjustment offensively but has hit consistently well at all levels up to now. IMO - varsity coach recognizes his potential as catcher and may not see the mound much in the next two years despite him being one of the best pitching prospects on the team next year. 2012 okay with that and has shown he wants to be the best catcher he can be through work ethic, comittment,etc. Plan on attending Iowa PG showcase in August to see how he stacks up against some of the top players in the midwest.

Thanks to all for your insight on this thread and all topics related to high school and college baseball. Great source for a newby like me as we begin the college selection process.

My son pitched and caught.He was strong at both.But,a friend who trains 2 MLB teams suggested to choose one for the sake of his arm.Can't play anything when your arm is burnt.
My son can hit,so he chose catching and he's part of the game all the time.At our HS pitchers do not ususally hit.

In a conversation with my son's orthopoedic doctor, the subject of pitching and catching came up. The doctor (who is a sports doctor) said that he does not like to see back to back games of pitching and catching. So if you pitch one day, don't catch the next. This makes sense, but would be a lot to manage in a season unless a team had a deep bench and an understanding coach.

Good to see my son is Not the only one

My son did both from age 8 until age 14. Started having some arm issues last year and had to shut it down for a while. Now that he is in HS he is only catching since the team has alot of arms, and he is the #1 guy they have behind the plate.
I worry about young kids overworking their arms if they try to do both. In retrospect I guess we should have been more careful with him when he was younger, but at the time it was tough to tell if he would catch or pitch when he got to high school, so it would have been difficult to choose when he was younger.

Buster Posey Pitched at Florida State. He would catch most of the game and then bring him in to close.

Wanted to provide an update on 2012. He has been starting varsity catcher since midway through soph year. This year also one of the two top pitchers. Typical rotation will see him catch Monday, pitch Tuesday, off Wednesday, etc so there is at least some recognition of the stress on the arm and an attempt to lessen this stress.

My original question was whether pitching would hinder development as a catcher or vice versa. Not sure if the correlation is valid but after nine games in 2011, his pop time has risen from 1.95-2.0 to 2.05-2.15 despite working on footwork and transfer drills all winter. The only changes are his frequency on the mound and his size (increased from 6-2 180 to nearly 6-3 and 205). His velocity (pitching) has increased from 80 as a Soph to 86-87 as a Junior so the issue isn't arm strength. It doesn't appear that mechanics have changed.

Not particularly concerned just an interesting observation.

Son did both in HS. In college he also shifted back and forth actually playing four positions in one game (C, P, 1B, DH). In college he was the starting catcher and was used as a closer his freshman year coming out from the plate to close a game. His sophomore year he started the season as the starting catcher behind the plate but was moved to the mound as a weekend starter when SEC play started. As a junior he was given a choice by the new head coach and moved back to catching only. He was drafted in the pro draft as a catcher after his junior year of college but was asked to pitch in one marathon game while in the minors and he "declined the offer".

Bottom line whether it be catching or pitching, each detracts from the other. Not saying you can't do both effectively, but I feel as if focusing on one position ONLY improves one's odds of becoming better at that position.
Fungo

Fungo - From what I'm observing, I would tend to agree with your statement that "...each detracts from the other...focusing on one position ONLY improves one's odds of becoming better at that position." While he may not be reaching his maximum potential at either position, he is thoroughly enjoying both and I wouldn't want him to change it for anything. Thanks for your comments. BTW - sounds like your son was/is a heck of a ball player!

Before my son was in high school he played catcher and pitched. In high school he was a starting varsity catcher as a freshman and didn't pitch...yet.
What I noticed in travel ball, when he did pitch his arm got stronger and his velocity increased, which helped him catching.