??Catcher's K-ZONE statistics??

Nothing about stats but I have a little insight on what your talking about. How a catcher receives the pitch is crucial to an umpires view. An umpire friend of mine hates calling a game behind a big catcher who can't get low, it distorts his view of a low strike call. Stealing a strike on the corners is also an art...too much pull to the center of the plate and it becomes obvious it was a ball.

I don't fully understand the statistic you were tracking here. Can you explain it further?

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Kremer:...Can you explain it further?

Rob,
Sure... when looking at the number of balls and strikes in a pitcher's total pitch count, the number of strikes includes balls hit for outs, swings with a miss, "called" strikes with no swing, foul balls, etc. I am looking at that total number of strikes initially, but I am further charting those numbers based on how many individual "strikes" in an AB are called strikes, i.e. not hit for an out, not a swing/miss, not hit foul, etc.

And, I am tracking this during games, for every catcher, comparing the total number of individual strikes for that pitcher/catcher in a game, then looking at the total number of "called" strikes from that original number. Then I can compare the percentage of "called" strikes against each catcher's total. I hope that helps.
GED10DaD

So, in other words, looking at the ratio for catcher #1, 49%.... 49% of the time, when a single strike is recorded during a game for that battery, catcher #1 is getting 49% of the pitcher's total "strikes" as CALLED Strikes.

Which I believe is a combination of the stud pitcher (+)PLUS(+) the catcher's ability to call a certain pitch/location, his body position, and most importantly = framing. And then a true intangible is the ability of a catcher to develop a relationship with that plate umpire for a favorable game....

GED10DaD

IMHO, one of the most important jobs of a catcher is how to learn to read an umpire. Does the ump have a high or low strke zone. How far inside or outside can you setup to to get a pitch. A good catcher will be able to figure this out after the first couple of batters than it is up to him to get his pitcher to work this spots. As the game goes on if the pitcher is hitting the spots, he can expand the zone. If the catcher is "pulling" or "swiping" the ball into the strike zone, umpires will tighten up the strike zone.

OK I understand it now. Very interesting.

I think it is unmistakingly true that some catchers will get more strikes than others, but I've never thought about any way to quantify this. Your method does seem to get at it.

It does seem there would be a lot of "noise" in the data that would only dissipate with a large sample. The big differences you found between the three catchers - could that be partially explained by the pitchers they were catching? I wouldn't have expected the variance to be so high between different catchers.

Pretty interesting, though. I wonder if the SABR guys have ever tried to get at this question.

RK,
I agree, it will be fun to see if the data holds true the entire year. So far we've been able to chart 23 games, including our pre-season tournaments. Both C#2 and C#3 are grade exceptions and are 1 calendar year older than their peers. C#3 does not get many starts, but they have all three caught the same pitchers so far, except for C#1 has caught a sophomore pitcher two more times than the others.

And, we should get data for 2010 if both C#1 and C#2 return next year. It's been interesting enough to make me want to chart the next years data too! Just mindless numbers though, really, but it's been fun.

GED10DaD

**UPDATED* Numbers....

On Tuesday 04/7, versus Amarillo Tascosa, C#1 had a 41% "called" STRIKE ratio. Today, versus San Angelo Central, C#1 had a 62% called STRIKE ratio, C#2 had a 50% STRIKE ratio.
GED10DaD

Very interesting stuff...I think the best way to do it is to have Questec and see how far off the strike zone the catcher is getting calls. Going to be hard to get them for HS.

What, you don't have Questec at your HS field?

Never seen it put into terms of statistics,but this is pretty cool. I have seen so many catchers cost their pitchers strikes,because they werent good receivers of the baseball. They would stab at the ball,or just reach out and be very stiff with their catching hand. Some things you cant teach,and I think this may be one of them. Some guys have it in their muscle memory.

Last night, in a 14-7 loss, we used three pitchers. C#1 and SP#1 = 35% ratio, C#1 and RP#1(3) = 66% ratio, C#1 and RP#2(6) = 64% ratio. This gave C#1 a game ratio of 55%.

Total called strikes = 18 for all three. GED10DaD

In yesterday's DH, C#2 caught the first game and C#1 the second game. Both games were wins. The ratios remained consitent, although they caught different pitchers, with C#1 having a ratio of (+)13%. Both plate umpires did a good job of being transparent, zero issues with balls and strikes.

Very interesting to see the ratios remain consitent, not a huge statistical difference, but still different. GED10DaD

As all we get set for another great spring season, anyone interested in charting their catchers K-Zone stats and comparing the methodology and results? I'd love to have more data than just my 3 guys? I'm curious if this method holds true in other programs.

GED10DaD

GunEmDowm10,
After seeing all 3 catchers over a period of time, would you attribute the differences between these 3 catchers as being mechanics (how they actually recieve, set up,etc) or that the #1 catcher is better at keeping the hitters guessing and mixes the pitches up better than #2 and #3?

My guess ("WAG") is that #1 may be better at calling a game based on the number of called/no swing strikes he gets. Appears he does a good job at keeping hitters off balance. Out of curiousity, what is the teams winning % with each catcher (may be tough as many schools will use a couple catchers in a game)?

Last, do you have the pitching staff's ERA for each catcher? We used to preach to our catchers that the teams' ERA was also their "catching" ERA.

Very interesting study you are undertaking.

Your right on. This is the difference between catchers and I think the most important one.

How many called strikes does a catcher get in a game. Make it a catcher stat. Called strikes are more of a reflection of the receiver than the pitcher.

Cuts to the chase pretty quickly when you chart called strikes by catcher.

Then add called strikes when catching left handed pitchers. I've seen bad receivers make good lefthanders, walk machines.

quote:

Originally posted by S. Abrams: After seeing all 3 catchers over a period of time, would you attribute the differences between these 3 catchers as being mechanics (how they actually recieve, set up,etc) or that the #1 is better at keeping the hitters guessing and mixes the pitches up better than #2 and #3?

No question C#1 and C#2 were more mechanically sound, with the edge going to C#1. C#3, a SR, was older/stronger, but lacked the refined skills, He tried to get by on pure athleticism. This resulted in too much movement, he routinely blocked the umpire's view. Also, C#1 always called his own pitches, C#2 called his own pitches 75% of the time. Often, C#2 would try to over power, instead out think the hitter. Most (TX-5A) HS hitters can hit the hard/straight stuff! He did not much care for catching/blocking pitches down in the zone or breaking stuff in the dirt!

quote:

Originally posted by S. Abrams: Out of curiousity, what is the teams winning % with each catcher (may be tough as many schools will use a couple catchers in a game)?

I do not have the numbers for 2009, but I will get them for 2010. Looking back at W/L's, C#1 won more starts, with few exceptions. In fact there were two district games where C#1 caught C#2 on the mound. Both games, C#2 was in double digit K's before C#1 went to 1st base late innings and C#2 went behind the plate. Both games were lost in late innings, with the final runs scored by a passed ball.

quote:

Originally posted by S. Abrams: Last, do you have the pitching staff's ERA for each catcher? We used to preach to our catchers that the teams' ERA was also their "catching" ERA.

Again, I did not track that for 2009, but that's a great idea for this season.

Thanks for the ideas. GED10DaD

Interesting catcher's analysis published....

Baseball Prospectus Catcher's Analysis

GED10DaD

GunEmDown10,

I think the article is interesting, trying to say catchers are anything more than just one of hundreds of factors in how a pitch is call, seems a bit silly to me. But that’s just me.

I’m much more interested in what you found to be true in your numbers. Heck, I’d done a lot of analysis about what you were doing, and wrote somewhat extensively in response before I noticed the thread was almost 3 years old! So what did you find out?