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16 replies

Catcher/Ump relationship...

D deaconspoint100+ posts
I have read a lot about how the relationship between catcher and ump can turn games. I kind of like the fact that it doesn't have to be and in fact should not be adversarial. I had a neat opportuntiy to see this play out this weekend. It envolved my son, an out of town ump, and one pretty exciting play at the plate.

We were playing a team from another town only a short drive away. It's Pinto ball and these are 8U kids so you get some perspective. Lots of fun and pretty exciting for our boys to actually travel to another town to play. It's not travel ball just rec league. This towns teams travel to our place for some of their games and we go to theirs for others. The umpire was a local HS player who donated his time to call the game.

As with a lot of teams there is a shortage of any kind of actual play by catcher's at this level around here. Most teams are sucked into that "it's a good place for the less atheletic" idea that I absolutely can't stand. My son's team is unfortunately no exception. I am only assisting and trying to let the other guy coach. I didn't coach this spring so I feel I have no real room to talk. I have to live with my decision and let the guy coach his team.

By the end of the second inning the young umpire's shins and ankles had taken quite the beating from balls mostly just ignored by the little catchers. Not to mention having to chse down all those balls and throw them back himself as most couldn't or wouldn't even try and beat him to them. He would occasionally give the ball back to the catcher to make the throw back, but stopped when he realized this was futile.

The third inniing was my son's first to catch. Now my son is not great by any means, but what he lacks in ability he makes up for in effort. He has learned enough that just a little effort behind the plate can make a world of difference. He plays the position and makes the throw with authority. He knows that most of the balls in this league will drop before they get to him so he plays the hops like grounders at this point and tries to block all he can. He did a pretty good job and I was happy to see the young ump give him a smile, a few kind words, and a pat on the head after his inning.

When it was our time in the field in the fourth my son played OF and we ran out another catcher. I saw the ump come over to our coach and say something. I asked the coach what he had said and he told me that he had asked why my son wasn't catching. Said he wanted the other catcher back. He got him in the fifth, and it all came together.

All those times of backing up 1b with no reward. All those trots back to the plate with a grin on his face knowing that he was one in only a handful of folks, including coaches and players, that even knew what he was doing running down there in the first place. The ball got by 1b, the runner went for 2b and the boy made the throw. It was so close that I would have had to go with the runner, but the ump made the call for the out. I hope no one had a camera on me at that moment because I can't dance. And I shouldn't!!

Ok, I'm his dad and I am biased. But perhaps in the wrong way. When I have coached him I have leaned hard in the other direction. If he made a play and it was close I've always errored on the side of the other player out of fear that I was making a call based on him being my kid. I'll never forget a bang bang play at the plate last season when I was coaching and umping at the plate. Both kids made a great effort and I called the runner safe at home. It was the winning run and I mean close enough to go iether way in anyones eyes. Folks from both sides told me after the game that they though the runner was out. What I was most proud of was that there was no argument and no down face, well maybe a little, but he held together for the most part. On the way home in the car he told me that he really thought he had that guy and he couldn't believe they called him safe. They was me son, and he was safe. You both made a great effort and you both deserve to be rewarded. He scored the winning run for his team. You get an icecream with your dad and get to pound on him for while about making a that call. You'll get the next one.

All of this to say that the importance of this relationship, even at this young age, can determine the outcome of games. I'm pretty sure the local boy caught heck from someone in that crowd for making that call our way. I'm also pretty sure he'd do it again in the same situation. My hope is that my son has many more opportunities to prove me right.

Thanks for listening.

Tim
deaconspoint
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catcher09catcher091,000+ posts
The best chest protector for an umpire is a good catcher.

Even at the HS Level a good catcher makes a difference in subtle ways. My son caught in a game last week and after the game I casually asked the Man in Blue how our catcher did. He told me it was great. He was very "quiet" (not much movement) and he felt protected. This allowed the ump to hang in there and really see the pitch. Did we get some breaks because of it - dont know about that - did we lose some strikes on late breaking stuff - no way. I think the affect of a good catcher is really hard to measure but it is there and you know it when you see it.
Last edited by catcher09
D deaconspoint100+ posts
Thanks everyone. Each day is a new blessing and we're trying to take in every one when it happens. Every once in a while one jumps up that just needs to be shared.

Some of these memories are so much fun that I go over then again and again. Unfortunately for you nice folks I may be sitting at a computer when I do. Thanks again for listening and for you feedback.

Tim
H Hardball16210+ posts
Not only can the catcher-ump relationship be critical to the team, it can also help out the catcher himself. As a junior, this is my third year starting on varsity and I have gotten to know most of the umpires in my area pretty well. You'll find that the more experience an umpire has, the more he will appreciate a quality catcher. I remember the first time I experienced some of the more obvious benefits of the catcher-umpire realtionship. I was catchig a ganme in my freshman year with an older ump, he had loads of experience, he told me he umps the college world series. he was callign a great game and he kept on telling me how great it was that i was blocking balls in the dirt even with no runners on to protect him(our pitcher was a 55 ft specialist that day). Then when I came up later in the game, I took a borderline line pitch on a full count. I was about to walk back to my dug out when he said, "Take your base." When I got back in the field the next inning, the ump told me, "There are only two people on this field who are walking to first after that pitch." It pays to work back there
H Hardball16210+ posts
Catch43, I understand what you are getting at, but I have to say, sometimes I feel that I deserve those borderline calls. However, it is critical that you never rely on it, I was still plenty ****ed at myself for taking a pitch that I know should have gotten me out, but things have a way at evening themselves out in the end. Also, it provides you with a little more motivation to work hard behind the plate, which is good for anybody. . . I guess ya just gotta go with what they say, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."
Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
Umpires are human. I think they do occasionally give the catcher at bat the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think it is exclusively because the catcher blocks pitches.

I think catchers tend to know the strike zone better than other batters, since they see so many more pitches coming toward the plate.

I think there may be a subliminal tendency on the part of some umpires, who come to know and trust certain catchers, to not call boderline strikes on catchers simply because he didn't swing.

Catcher/batter didn't think it is a strike, borderline pitch, umpire knows the kid and knows how he presents borderline pitches to him on defense - and it gets called a ball.

I've watched my kid catch and hit for quite a few years, and I am sure he occasionally gets the benefit of the doubt.

Human nature, I think.
H Hardball16210+ posts
i couldn't agree more on the idea of the catcher having a better idea of the strike zone. I think that it is one of the responsibilities of the catcher to also relay the information to his teammates. Every ump has a different zone and sadly, many umps have different zones at different times in the game. I know that after my first inning in the field I like to come in and tell my fellow teammates that, the ump has a low zone, or that he doesn't call anything off the plate etc. This helps the batters to better formulate tehir plan before they step up to the plate.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
I taught my son and all my catchers at a very early age that part of their job was to protect the man in blue. #1 Nothing gets by you. #2 Nothing hits the umpire. #3 Never ever ever show up the umpire. #4 Never show disgust on a call. #5 Never freeze a framed pitched after a ball has been called (showing up the umpire). #5 Never make the umpire get a ball that has bounced away from you. #6 Bust to the ball dont walk and get it. The umpire is not getting paid 500 bucks to be there all night long. #6 If the umpire gets tagged by a foul ball walk out to the mound and talk to the pitcher and give the umpire some time to walk it off. #7 Dont talk to the batters. Its bush league , let them hit and play the game with class. #8 Keep strikes strikes dont turn them into balls that makes the umpire look bad and hurts your team. #9 If it is obviously a ball dont try to make it look like a strike. #10 If it is borderline just do your job and let the umpire make the call. #11 Get the ball back to the pitcher with some zip on it and dont take all day in doing it. Pitchers need a rhythem the game needs a rhythem and the umpire doesnt want to take all day for the next pitch. #12 Hit the pitcher in the chest and dont throw the ball all over the field. Nothing gets on an umpires nerves anymore than a catcher lobbing the ball back to the pitcher and throwing it over his head even once. #13 Dont get up to the plate and show disgust over a called strike on you ever. Especially on a pitch that he has been giving you when you are behind the plate. #14 Treat the umpire with the respect he deserves all the time. #15 Get out there after every inning. Dont be lolly gagging out to the dish. If you are coming off the bags or on deck when the inning ends make sure that someone is ready to warm up the pitcher. (coaches need to make sure on this one but the catcher will held responsible by the umpire). #16 Think of yourself as a team with the umpire. Work together as a team. You should have a feel for his zone after the first inning or two. If he is not calling the knee high strike two balls off the plate dont call for that pitch when you got to have a strike.

Im sure many of you can come up with more of these. The bottom line is a great catcher who does the job the right way will have a great relationship with the umpire. These guys respect the job that you do and they admire the guys that do it right. I too believe that catchers get the benefit of the doubt by quality umpires. And catchers should have a good eye at the plate.

Another thing to take into account is this. This year we have four guys that throw it pretty well. A couple in the upper 80's low 90's and a couple that sit in the mid 80's. Then we play some teams that throw mid 70's to 80. Your kid is watching pitch after pitch come in at good velocity and then they get up and they are seeing a speed with much less velocity coming in. Its important that your son do a good job in the on deck circle watching every pitch come in because its an adjustment for the catchers. HS baseball pitching is sometimes tougher to hit for good hitters especially good hitting catchers. Ive found that my son hits better when the opposing pitcher is at least in the neighborhood in velocity to our guy on the hill that day. What are your thoughts on this?
redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
Coach May,

My son is one of our catchers and we have preached the same things (1-16) since he was 9 years old. I also told him to:

17. Never turn around to talk to the umpire...your mouth/ears work independently from your eyes. When you turn around, it looks like you are questioning him.

18. If I ever ask you where a pitch is, do not tell me it was a strike. Tell me "it was a little outside/inside/high/low". We will get the call later on the same borderline pitch.

But the biggest one is protecting the umpire. Umps always love getting behind the plate with our guys because they NEVER get hit. We take pride in blocking balls and all 3 of our catchers do a good job. We get complements before and after games by the umps for this.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
A catchers best compliments come from the umpires. We have a kid that sits in the low 90's can run it up there around 94 at times. He has some nasty run on his two seamer. The other night after the game the umpire came over to us and said "You know when I saw your kid throwing his warm up pitches I thought I was in for a long night. But that kid behind the plate was awesome. I just sat back there and relaxed and really had a good time calling this one." Those are the kind of comments that are priceless for a catcher and a coach.
H Hardball16210+ posts
I really agree with redbird about the turning of the head. I know pretty much all of the umpires in my area and some of them have even told me to call them by their first name (I still prefer "Blue"). I ahve found that, without dropping the F-Bomb or getting personal, when you have your mask on, as long as you are facing foward, you can say just about anything to an ump. You also have to take in to consideration who you are working with. If you have an ump who is an ego-maniac and likes to make the game about himself, then I find it best to just keep quiet answer any of his questions and do your job. However if you have a more reasonable ump, you can usually tell him, "You've been ringing my batters up on that one blue, I need that too." . . . In the end it all comes down to the catcher having to use his best judgement on what is the best thing to do in any given situation

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