Catholic High School withholds diploma of Wichita State player

The parents had no business sending the kid to a catholic school if they couldnt afford it. He shouldve went to public school. If the kid couldn't continue college then thats the breaks unless somebody wants to bail them out of the problem they caused. Why not let the kid work and help pay down the debt if hes a healthy abled body. Time for someone to grow up here and take responsibility

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:
The parents had no business sending the kid to a catholic school if they couldnt afford it. He shouldve went to public school. If the kid couldn't continue college then thats the breaks unless somebody wants to bail them out of the problem they caused. Why not let the kid work and help pay down the debt if hes a healthy abled body. Time for someone to grow up here and take responsibility

otoh, the Catholic school had no business accepting a student whose parents couldn't pay. oh, the kid did have a work study program that helped with $4,000, so they knew the problems the parents were having. Meanwhile, the pope still wears Prada, and Episcopal cloth.... urp

Another ironic fact is that the Catholic high school, DeSmet Jesuit, knowing that the family couldn't afford their exorbinant tuition, still financed it for them at an annual percentage rate of 18%!!!

It's just like the credit card companies who only want you to pay their minimum payment so you never get out of hock...very chirstian thing to do eh???

I believe the entire topic is summed up by one statement in the article:


Kyle's father accepts blame. "It's really my fault," said Albert. "If I had a job, this wouldn't have happened."


It is very unfortunate that a kid is stuck in the middle. Unfortunately the only way the school has to even try to get the money they have already had to cover is by holding the diploma. The father has a degree in Accounting. Companies preparing tax returns every year are always hiring.

The Arch Diocese in that area, most likely, already contributes a pretty large amount for the education of the students. The rest has to be covered by the student's family. They have expenses based on this and can't just say "Well, it's ok, you don't have to pay." because there would be nothing keeping others from saying "Ok, I just won't pay either."

To cover any shortage the school has, they would most likely have to take out a loan to cover. Their interest rate would not be 0% either.


We have developed such a belief of "entitlement" in this country that we forget that we are to do the work and not wait for others to do it for us.

While I applaude the people that stepped up to pay the bill, so the kid could get his diploma, they did not send a good message. They just reinforced the "If I wait, someone else will take care of it." principle. It would have been better for someone to step up and give the dad a job and say "We will cover the outstanding expense and he can pay for it by working for us."

quote:

2014_Lefty_Dad

GREAT POST!

Sums it up very well

Give a man fish, feed him for a day.

Teach him to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

This young man will soon learn what that saying above truly means.

Any idea if this affects his amateur status? Apparently they have also set up a fund to help with his college expenses too since his scholarship was only about 50% of his cost of attendance.

BTW, I would have liked the dad to work for the school to pay off the debt. I bet there is plenty of painting to do and grass to cut.

I don't understand the position that it's the schools fault for the family's failure to pay. They paid for the sisters private education and first two years for thier son so there was plenty of evidence that they had capabilities to pay the tuition. To say that the school is some sort of predatory business is nonsense.

I also don't buy the notion they were duped. After all the Dad here is an accountant. It seems he is not a very good one that can't get and hold a job but again that's not the schools fault, it is his and he does say so.

They wanted their son to be in this school and they negotiated to keep him there. For the school to collect the fee does not make it evil, criminal or unchristian.

If the school is guilty of anything it is being too generous to deadbeats. I wonder how this would have played out if they booted the boy once the family got behind on payments. Same reporter writing a story about how this hard working unfortunate family that has a unemployable father suffering in the down economy is being shabbily treated by the uncaring school. That's because DeSmet is a bunch of money grubbers that wouldn't give them a chance to work something out.

The school was put in a no win situation by the family who knew or should have known they couldn't pay. In the end they were trying to steal the diploma from the school. The Jesuits might point out that's rule #8.

I don't understand blaming the school either. They provide an aducation for a price. That high school education culminates with a diploma for those that choose to pay to attend and meet the academic requirements. If you don't pay, why would you expect to get the diploma?

Those that say you can't punish the kid for the sins of the parents are off base in my opinion. Parents make decisions all of the time that affect their kids. We don't stand back and say that a bank can't forclose on a home because of the kids that live there, do we? No.

I'd still like to know if the financial help jeopardizes the kid's amateur status and how he was able to enroll at Wichita State without final transcripts being approved? How did they offer/give him a scholarship without him being cleared by the NCAA clearinghouse? Final transcripts are required, correct? I hope the kid doesn't get screwed because of all of this.

"For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction"

I have a cousin who goes to DeSmet. His parents told him upfront that he could go there, BUT that was his college money so when it's gone it's gone.


Withholding the dimploma is likely the only chance the school has at getting its money. I'm sure many schools like this are able to write off some of that and they find a way to make it work. But they can't do it all the time.

I don't know what part of St. Louis this kid is from, but I'll bet he could have gone to a public school and gotten an excellent education for much, much less. That's the choice they made; now they should live with it.

Strike 3 - Your question about standing is a good one. I have to think there are thousands of kids in private schools all over America that get some assistance from various sources with tuition so this might be a pretty broad question.

Even in this circumstance the school had some arrangement generating $35-$50 jobs. Have to wonder what's going on and if someone has ever looked under the hood to see if it's on the up and up.

I understand that these private schools give financial assistance to some families based on need. However, the debt was paid by private individuals so basically they paid for him to go to this school. Now, they have set up a fund for donations to cover his college expenses that are not covered by his scholarship. I don't know how the NCAA will view this but I ask the question out of my own curiosity.

Bulldog, it says they live in Ferguson, so I would imagine if he went to a public school it would be Hazelwood Central or McCluer, I guess.

luv baseball,
I think what was meant by the "$35-$50 an hour" was in reference to the amount of the reduction in tuition that was given compared to the number of hours the school was requiring the kid to work.

The point was, they were providing them with opportunities that were way above the norm for working torward the tuition.

As was mentioned in the article, there were others that had this same situation and were working through it (someone was still paying $50/month on a 2007 graduation).

So the family paying $50 a month is still waiting for the release of their child's diploma? I wonder how many other families are in this situation? I do see this as an ethical/moral/Christian issue. If the school can't afford those that can't pay, they shouldn't accept them. It's just not very Christian to hold a child's future hostage.... I wonder what Jesus would do?

Something just doesn't add up. I'll withhold judgement on these "deadbeats". I wonder if the child was allowed to play baseball in the spring while still owing all that money? Parents don't always think clearly when dreaming of a child's future. Assuming the article is accurate, there are clearly issues other than financial in the family.

oh, and by the way, if all fees are not met at public schools, (high school and university) you can't receive your diploma either. I just think a church is held to a much higher standard.

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
So the family paying $50 a month is still waiting for the release of their child's diploma? I wonder how many other families are in this situation? I do see this as an ethical/moral/Christian issue. If the school can't afford those that can't pay, they shouldn't accept them. It's just not very Christian to hold a child's future hostage.... I wonder what Jesus would do?

Something just doesn't add up. I'll withhold judgement on these "deadbeats". I wonder if the child was allowed to play baseball in the spring while still owing all that money? Parents don't always think clearly when dreaming of a child's future. Assuming the article is accurate, there are clearly issues other than financial in the family.

oh, and by the way, if all fees are not met at public schools, (high school and university) you can't receive your diploma either. I just think a church is held to a much higher standard.

I know DeSmet to be a private high school, not a church. It is affiliated with a religion though. I guess they should close the doors since they can't afford to do this at no cost to the students.

But 55mom, this is not a church, it is a private high school that is supported by the church.

I believe Jesus taught us to be compasionate and help those that can't help themselves, but that is where the debate starts. It appears from the article that the father knows he could have done something to keep this from happening.

The school worked with them on several occasions, per the article, to work through the outstanding debt. The parents did not hold up to their end, it appears.

Maybe the school could have given the father some other options, like coming and working off the debt by doing things for the school, but I think there becomes a limit on what you can expect the school to do and still be able to stay open for the other students.

Would DeSmet let a kid who was in the same financial situation stay at the school if he was not a stud pitcher?

The high school has a right to collect tuition that it is owed. I just wonder if DeSmet wanted the extra wins and prestige this kid would bring to their baseball program.

The Catholic High Schools I know would have treated the kid the same whether he was a stud pitcher on the baseball team or not.

This kid had a 3.5 in HS so it may have had as much to do with the fact that he was a good student as well. Who knows.

Point 1) But his life never got back on track. He has not had a job in years. He seldom goes out of the house.

Point 2) one family is still sending $50 every month in an effort to get their son's diploma from 2007.

Option 1) Dad needs to negotiate a deal and get a part time job,

Option 2) The kid needs to negotiate a deal and get a part time job. He should be able to make $12.50 per week.

Really is a strange story. What bothers me is how they used a picture of him signing his letter on the cover of the most recent mailer for the school's annual giving campaign. They USED that situation to their advantage even when they knew that the student on the front parents owed money they could not pay.

I am not too quick to rush to blame the parents. They did what a lot of parents do, spend money they don't have to give their children the best even when they can't afford it. They had to have shown the school they could have afforded it, but with two more in college with student loans, debt, etc. not sure that was done.

Private schools might not be so expensive in the first place if there weren't so many parents expecting a free ride. I went to private schools and my parents had to sacrifice big time to send me and my brother. All the while, on top of this they were paying school taxes because they made this choice. My freshman year was free because I had made the highest grades in the eighth grade and got a scholarship. Therefore I have little patience with people who blame the school. Private schools have closed down all across the nation over the last few decades because people think the schools should do the "Christian" thing and just let kids attend free who can't pay. I bet you wouldn't run your business like that for long.

I agree with you on some points Three Bagger.

When one makes application to a private school, don't they have to show proof that they can afford the tuition?

I blame the school because they should never have found themselves in this situation to begin with (being owed money). Once the parents showed they could not pay the bill, then it was time to ask them to move on, but don't make them get further behind with a % rate they could never keep up with.

Or was it because the student showed athletic promise and publishing his picture on that mailer would help them to receive more $$$?

My son was offered a scholarship to a local catholic school, I beleive that sons friend told the bb coaching staff about him.

We are jewish, and told that he wouldn't have to take religion classes. So it's pretty obvious they didn't want him for any other reason than what he could do for their baseball team (class AA in FL).

That's why people want their kids to go for free and that's why private christian schools have closed down all over the country.

Some obviously don't know how to run a business.

JMO.

It's pretty surprising to me in this season how uncharitable some people's out look it. If he owed 4K, the family had obviously paid the lions share of his education. It sounds as if there are tough times at home for multiple reasons and who are we to question the fact that nice people in the community stepped up to help him? No religious school wants to kick out a kid in his senior year, I am sure it was about kindness rather then baseball and if I am wrong, I am glad my natural starting point is to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Any of us in a position to help someone quite frankly should.

He didn't owe 4, they owed in his third year almost 7K, tack on another 7 for his last year's tuition and that was almost 14K. In June they owed almost 11K, the school asked to settle for 6500. They couldn't. Then they demanded $12,002.48 for the release of the diploma in October. Perhaps they felt that they had tried to help and were being ignored.

At one point in time (as he entered into his 3rd year) both parties should have realized that paying the tuition wasn't going to happen and come to a solution before it got to where it did, that is my point.

As for the people that helped, IMO, the people of the midwest are the kindest, most giving I have ever met. I do not fault them for helping a family in need.

I agree with TPM. Why did they bring this kid back for his senior year if the family owed money from junior year. And why but him on the cover of a publication if his finances were an issue?

Take a note from a family they know might not be able to pay it back sounds like a mortgage company from a few years ago. Bad business.

Here in NJ many catholic prep schools are turning into sports factories that resemble big time college teams more than religious schools. Recruit like crazy, hire the hot coach away from a competitor and fire coaches every other year. A baseball team that went like 25-1 and won the state championship fired their coach because parents, who could afford to pay more than tuition, complained that their Johnny wasn't playing.

IMO both sides are guilty of bad judgment in this case.

quote:

Take a note from a family they know might not be able to pay it back sounds like a mortgage company from a few years ago. Bad business.

Many of schools like these give aid to try to help out these students. Some of them will let the families pay small amounts at a time, but they can only do that so long. That school has bills to pay as well.

Did the school let the family know that it would withhold the students transcripts if they didn't pay up before graduation? Maybe they knew they would play this card at the end, so they really didn't act like good business people.

I understand the school is a business and has bills, that's why they shouldn't have accepted this family back after their bad track record. Did they really care about this students future? Act like a business up front when the student/family had an option, not when they have all the cards regarding this kids future.

Amazing how such a topic exposes people's true colors. Anti-catholic, anti-private school, anti-whatever.

Some thoughts as I have read through this, as a Catholic school parent in a large municipality where I pay rather high taxes for other's education:

1. It's extremely unlikely that the people putting together the sports pamphlet have any idea of the financial situation of the people in their pictures. So let's forget the conspiracy theory of taking advantage of this kid's baseball talent.

2. Most Catholic high schools do NOT do a financial review of the ability to pay. They trust that the family is responsible enough to do that, or to withdraw rather than continue to build bills that they cannot pay.

3. And then most Catholic high schools offer tuition assistance programs and multiple ways to pay.

4. Failure to pay should not be grounds for dismissal in the face of an effort to pay; but it is known at the outset that conveyance of the diploma should await payment settlement.

5. Other people stepping up to pay is laudable. I'm sure it made people feel good, but it is nothing but the effect of a news article. There are so many more needier areas that people should be making donations towards, rather than the unlucky person who got his story written about. Would I appreciate it? Of course. Would I be embarassed by it? Absolutely! The real question at play here is why did it become a news story and who is benefitting from this news? Speaks more to why publications like People and National Enquirer are such big money makers. Way too many people out there who love getting into other people's business.

6. Bringing up aspersions of the Pope and his clothing in relation to this story are laughable at best, and frightening at worst.

7. Suggesting that a waiver of religion classes for non-Catholics is because you are recruiting talent is not being aware of how often this occurs. Its standard practice to admit all faiths and welcome the diversity. Substituting non catholic only classes that still study religious diversity is fairly typical.

RedSoxFan21, you hit the nail right on the head.

I think that there is a perception that Catholic schools only take in non-Catholic kids that are great athletes and this thread has has shown that some of our posters believe this to be true. If you ever actually ATTENDED one of these school you might see that the schools take on students of all religions or in some cases no religion. Many of these non Catholics go to these schools to escape the problems that either do exist or are perceived to exist in the public school systems. One selling point is that kids of non Catholic persuasion are not required to attend Religious classes and can take study hall instead. No one forces these people to go to these schools. They do it because on average the education is better and although this might stir some people up it is true. Right now in the city ten miles down the road, there is a flood of people who are willing to pay up to $9000 dollars a year to attend one of the two major private high schools there (one is Catholic, one is not) as well as a flood moving to either my kid's 2A school or two other nearby small town schools as transfer students because of the problems in the two large public high schools in the city. Our school has to limit the number at some 60 kids from outside the district so that our resources are not overwelmed. While it a public school, it helps illustrate the motivations some people have for sending their kids to schools whether they can afford it or whether they have to move, etc.

quote:

7. Suggesting that a waiver of religion classes for non-Catholics is because you are recruiting talent is not being aware of how often this occurs. Its standard practice to admit all faiths and welcome the diversity. Substituting non catholic only classes that still study religious diversity is fairly typical.

But it IS laughable when a student or family claims that they want the "religion education" as the reason for choosing a particular private school and then not participate in those religion activities.

Other than that, I don't care where a student goes to school. I've done some work in both private and public schools. Overall, the kids are good at both...

I thought these Catholic schools took non-Catholic students in the hopes they convert, thus padding the collection plate every Sunday for the rest of their lives....

I kid, I kid.

Really, I dont know how this father can look at himself in the mirror every morning. I dont have a lot of money by any stretch, but when my son got a spot on a summer team that cost some money, my wife and I do without, both driving older cars, etc. I couldnt live with myself knowing that others paid not only for my son's education and for his expensive summer team.

I gaurentee this guy will be in Witchita or other locales every weekend watching his boy pitch.

quote:

Originally posted by Mizzoubaseball:
I thought these Catholic schools took non-Catholic students in the hopes they convert, thus padding the collection plate every Sunday for the rest of their lives....

I kid, I kid.

Really, I dont know how this father can look at himself in the mirror every morning. I dont have a lot of money by any stretch, but when my son got a spot on a summer team that cost some money, my wife and I do without, both driving older cars, etc. I couldnt live with myself knowing that others paid not only for my son's education and for his expensive summer team.

I gaurentee this guy will be in Witchita or other locales every weekend watching his boy pitch.

+1

Mizzou...I hope he can go watch his kid play. He sounds ill and his son grew up with that. It was mentioned that the dad rarely left the house. Knowing how I fortunate I feel to be able to send my kids to catholic schools and be able to pay in this economy, I am sorry for the father he does not have that feeling. I doubt he ever thought, if I fail to pay, others will step in and handle my debt! It sounds like life got hard and he wasn't able to push through. Regarding the kid being lucky someone published his story, I doubt he feels lucky. He most likely wishes his private struggles had stayed just that, private.
Should he have transferred as a junior when things got bad, probably but they most likely hung on too long and got in a bad spot. The kid wasn't on the sports brochure for any reason other then he is a good athlete and the people who created it had no idea of his financial status. It's not something that everyone knows, until now. A whole new hurdle for the young man.
Here's to hoping for a better New Year to that family and that they one day or just the boy has the chance to help someone else out in the future as they were helped. Nothing wrong with that lesson as a young person grows into a man.

Mizzoubaseball,

You can bet money that you are right and this dad will be at more of his son's college games than I get to go to. Why not, he's leeched off people and institutions for years. Most recovered alcoholics go on to lead productive and successful lives but not this guy. I would bet the reason the family didn't include the school in the bankruptcy filing is because that would have led to immediate removal of the boy as a student. By not including the school in the filing , the family misled the school into thinking that the education meant so much to them that they would pay their obligations. Instead they decided to gamble that the school would continue to feel sorry for them and give them a pass. In my opinion, the kid got a lot more than his family paid for.

quote:

Originally posted by calisportsfan:
Any of us in a position to help someone quite frankly should.

That's one thing they taught me in my three years of Catholic school- K,1,2. (my parents did, too)

I am glad that this young man received the help needed to stay in college and to play baseball this spring. I am thankful that there are still generous people who are willing to help strangers.

However, in reading the article, I side with the school. They provide a service which is not free to them, and therefore they cannot provide it for free.

Our two boys also attended private (Lutheran) schools from K thru 12, and we paid the tuition. We are not a rich family - my husband is a cop and I chose career options during their school years that would allow me to drive them to school (self-employed, commissioned salesperson, etc.). We sacrified to pay tuition. We drove older cars and stayed in our modest small home rather than "moving up". I often worked both daytime and evening hours to earn enough to help pay school tuition. We did without dinners out, expensive clothes, vacations, etc.

Yes, there is a hint in the article that the father might have a mental illness (rarely going out of the house), but we don't know that for sure, and I know people who do have some form of mental illness and get treatment for it so that they can still work fulltime jobs and support their families.

Sorry, this probably sounds unkind, but I can't fault the school for expecting payment for services rendered (and I expect that their tuition contract does stipulate withholding of records for non-payment... ours did).

Best wishes to the young man. I am glad that he will be able to continue following his dream!

Julie

.

"We drove older cars..."

Same here Mom...saved on the air-conditioning too!



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RedSoxFan21:
The real question at play here is why did it become a news story and who is benefitting from this news? Speaks more to why publications like People and National Enquirer are such big money makers. Way too many people out there who love getting into other people's business.QUOTE]

You raise a good point, however, I don't read STL Today except for sports news, but a publication as old as they aren't around because they compete with rags like the National Enquirer.

I am neither for or against any side, I just have some big questions about how the whole thing got out of hand. I don't see where the people who gave the money were wrong in doing so, everyone is entitled to give to whom they want, when and why. BTW, the bill was settled for 6500, half of what was owed. The player also had others help pay for him to attend travel teams, I have to assume that it wasn't as if the family were driving new cars and not paying their bills. Perhaps people saw a lot of talent in this player, so did the school.

I brought up the point about son being asked to attend a catholic school because here in our neck of the woods, jewish religious schools are not known for sports, and I really do feel that from what I have seen over the years, non public schools of any kind have become sports factories (but that is ok because that is how students get scholarships to help them get into college). People wait in line here for admittance to some schools. Why would one allow enrollment to a non christian, who doesn't have to attend those classes, when they can allow that slot to one who practices the faith regularly, and pay the tuition. Don't tell me that sports recognition has nothing to do with who you accept and who you don't. It was just was another side to the story I personally was trying to figure out.
And in all due respect, wouldn't that make us hypocrites if we accepted?

FWIW, we as responsible adults would not have let ourselves get into that situation. I think that's just the whole idea here, for me anyway.