I wanted to post to see if anyone could shed some light on why a college coach would completely stop every pitcher on his staff from throwing a change up. The only comment made by the coach was, "You're not there yet." I know it's not a lot to go on, but has anyone heard of a coach doing this? They don't have a real pitching coach, and the coach stated that he pitched in high school, so he knows what he is talking about.
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Moosecheese posted:I wanted to post to see if anyone could shed some light on why a college coach would completely stop every pitcher on his staff from throwing a change up. The only comment made by the coach was, "You're not there yet." I know it's not a lot to go on, but has anyone heard of a coach doing this? They don't have a real pitching coach, and the coach stated that he pitched in high school, so he knows what he is talking about.
Obviously he was taught to throw the change up by Domingo Ayala. Any other change up is semi pro. He teaches the trapezoid change and the 1 finger change. Both are out pitches.
Moosecheese posted:I wanted to post to see if anyone could shed some light on why a college coach would completely stop every pitcher on his staff from throwing a change up. The only comment made by the coach was, "You're not there yet." I know it's not a lot to go on, but has anyone heard of a coach doing this? They don't have a real pitching coach, and the coach stated that he pitched in high school, so he knows what he is talking about.
Eh, what? A college with no pitching coach and a head guy who pitched some in high school? I can see no sense in banning change ups. They aren't that hard to throw and master. Little leaguers throw them.
Maybe he thinks a CU that isn't "there yet", is just a meatball?
Midatlanticdad, I can see trying to maybe work with pitchers who have yet to master the pitch, but all of the pitchers? Some of the pitchers have very good changes. I need to clarify that they do have a coach who is deemed the pitching coach, but he doesn't work with the pitchers at all, and it is the head coach who "works" with the pitchers, and from what I hear, it is not much at all. Unfortunately for my PO son, the coach who recruited him, and who was a pitching guy and worked with the pitchers a lot, left over the summer before my son got there.
Do they work on the CU in practice? Is the ban only during games? From my experience, trying to read a baseball coach's mind is an exercise in futility.
It just sounds too much like what he had to deal with in high school. His coach would not let them wear batting gloves, take batting practice before games, would not allow the outfielders to wear sunglasses even on a sunny day, among other things, and his only explanation was that they were not there yet.
If I'm teaching pitching for younger kids I'm going to ban the curve ball first. I'm teaching fastball and change ups right off the bat. The rest will come when they are able to demonstrate repeatable mechanics.
At the college level I may be teaching some but by that point it should be very little or advancing on some basics you got from HS age ball.
Goes to show you not all college coaches are very good.
Moosecheesemjm posted:It just sounds too much like what he had to deal with in high school. His coach would not let them wear batting gloves, take batting practice before games, would not allow the outfielders to wear sunglasses even on a sunny day, among other things, and his only explanation was that they were not there yet.
Well it does take a lot of practice to make those Oakleys look just right on their hat, they may just not be at that level of cool yet. You just have to accept it, coaches decision! 
I definitely get the whole coach's decision thing, but it would be nice to have a meaningful explanation for my son, and not necessarily for me. Yeah, the outfielders do need to run around and make sure the Oakleys don't fall off, I guess
Moosecheesemjm posted:It just sounds too much like what he had to deal with in high school. His coach would not let them wear batting gloves, take batting practice before games, would not allow the outfielders to wear sunglasses even on a sunny day, among other things, and his only explanation was that they were not there yet.
It's always tough when trying to interpret coach's words as heard by a teen or young twenty something. As a coach, I've heard a few things come back around that supposedly came out of my mouth that weren't even close. I could take a guess at some of this stuff. No batting gloves or sunglasses - certainly there is an element where many of today's young players get quite caught up in the "accessorizing" aspect of baseball. Sometimes, particularly when they aren't playing well and seem more consumed with the "look", I want to just throw all that stuff in the garbage and get down to raw baseball.
No change up at college level sure sounds strange but maybe the staff, in general, is having difficulty spotting their secondary stuff and the coach wants to get back to basics - locate the FB. Maybe the staff is leaving their off speed stuff up too much, CU's in particular, and he wants to make a point that you have to get that pitch down if you are going to throw it in a game. Did he say how long the ban was for?
Not having a P coach at the college level never sounds good, but, again, there is usually only one qualified P coach on a staff and there is a lot of movement of college coaches. If the P coach moves on, there is often an interim period where someone else has those duties. Happens more often than one might think.
I could be wrong and the coach could be stupid but there is usually at least a reason or principal behind this sort of stuff.
For 20 years, I listened to Craig Biggio answer "That's baseball" to every interview question he was asked.
Moosecheese, That's baseball. Bad baseball, bad coaching, bad strategy. But that's baseball.
Not a real P coach? Has he stayed at a Holiday Inn?
seems strange IMO. What level we talking here? I will say at the showcase where my son was seen and got his offer out of 35 P there, less than half had a CU.
its such a great P to command.
What program is this, son is looking for a job....rofl.
Mastering a change up needed at the next level is not easy. My son had a great one in HS that didn't work on the college level.
Not sure I am understanding this entire situation.
Moosecheese posted:I wanted to post to see if anyone could shed some light on why a college coach would completely stop every pitcher on his staff from throwing a change up. The only comment made by the coach was, "You're not there yet." I know it's not a lot to go on, but has anyone heard of a coach doing this? They don't have a real pitching coach, and the coach stated that he pitched in high school, so he knows what he is talking about.
What's worse on the arm? Throwing hard a lot or throwing an occasional off speed pitch?
This post has got to be a joke. What college are we talking about?
lionbaseball, I don't really want to name and shame, but it is a real DII program. If there is a way to send personal messages on this, message me and I will tell you the program.
cabbagedad posted:Moosecheesemjm posted:It just sounds too much like what he had to deal with in high school. His coach would not let them wear batting gloves, take batting practice before games, would not allow the outfielders to wear sunglasses even on a sunny day, among other things, and his only explanation was that they were not there yet.
It's always tough when trying to interpret coach's words as heard by a teen or young twenty something. As a coach, I've heard a few things come back around that supposedly came out of my mouth that weren't even close. I could take a guess at some of this stuff. No batting gloves or sunglasses - certainly there is an element where many of today's young players get quite caught up in the "accessorizing" aspect of baseball. Sometimes, particularly when they aren't playing well and seem more consumed with the "look", I want to just throw all that stuff in the garbage and get down to raw baseball.
No change up at college level sure sounds strange but maybe the staff, in general, is having difficulty spotting their secondary stuff and the coach wants to get back to basics - locate the FB. Maybe the staff is leaving their off speed stuff up too much, CU's in particular, and he wants to make a point that you have to get that pitch down if you are going to throw it in a game. Did he say how long the ban was for?
Not having a P coach at the college level never sounds good, but, again, there is usually only one qualified P coach on a staff and there is a lot of movement of college coaches. If the P coach moves on, there is often an interim period where someone else has those duties. Happens more often than one might think.
I could be wrong and the coach could be stupid but there is usually at least a reason or principal behind this sort of stuff.
I like cabbagedad's perspective. You never know what's going on in someone's head, but these seem like some good guesses. Locate the FB. Focus on the game, not the look.
That said - college-level change ups, in my personal humble opinion, were the biggest challenge for me moving from HS to college ball. Oh, and sliders.
Matt Reiland posted:I like cabbagedad's perspective. You never know what's going on in someone's head, but these seem like some good guesses. Locate the FB. Focus on the game, not the look.
That said - college-level change ups, in my personal humble opinion, were the biggest challenge for me moving from HS to college ball. Oh, and sliders.
Matt why do you think the biggest challenge was the changeup going to college?
The change has been my son's out pitch, along with most of the staff.
coach2709 posted:Matt why do you think the biggest challenge was the changeup going to college?
It was a matter of learning to pickup the changeup out of the pitcher's hand. After a steady diet of fastball/curve in HS, it was easy to sit on the fastball and wait back on a curve. The changeups in HS were generally mediocre at best - they were usually easy to pick up. It was the across-the-board higher quality college changeups that appeared as a fastball coming out of the hand, that was the reason for the difficult (for me) adjustment.
Same story for the slider. Picking it up even just a split second later because of better release points, spin, and arm action was enough to prevent solid contact until I got accustomed to them.
Thanks for the response Matt and to be honest for some reason I thought you were a pitcher. I couldn't figure out why you were struggling with a change thinking that you had a hard time learning to throw it. But what you said makes perfect sense for hitting. I'm an idiot
